Chagy
Bronze Member
Claudio, the information posted came from here....
http://directory.playadelcarmen.com/article/cozumel-shipwrecks.html
http://directory.playadelcarmen.com/article/cozumel-shipwrecks.html
Undiscovered treasure galleons
- Thread starter Colombiapictures
- Start date
Vox veritas
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2008
- 1,077
- 269
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Chagy said:
Chagy, with the age that you have you still believe in the information on this fellow?
Almost comes from my book, Shipwrecks off the coast of Mexico, p. 271. The Santa Cruz is a lie, it sank in Zahara beach, Spain.
VV
Chagy
Bronze Member
Vox veritas said:
Oh no Vox V. dont get me wrong as you said I am to old to believe in Santa Claus the olny reason why I posted P.N. information was to proof that his information is purer BS because CP mentioned him in a prior post.....
Vox veritas
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2008
- 1,077
- 269
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Chagy said:
Chagy, about your age it was a joke. But Pawel is sad.
VV
Colombiapictures
Full Member
- May 7, 2010
- 123
- 71
- Thread starter
- #145
Chagy said:
Chagy,
thanks for the effort.
Marx tells of a TF fleet of 1691, four galleons, that wrecked on Pedro Bank. This is probably the shipwrecks salvaged over several years by English wreckers.
Jamaica was not really on the route of the treasure galleons. To far to the east. Sailing towards the east was very difficult for the galleons.
Alice shoal and Rosalind Bank are good candidates for the final resting place of the galleons if they sank offshore. The reason is the giant waves built up by the strong current over the shoals, running against the violent wind from the Norther, blowing out of the west north-west.
If the ships were totally disabled, without running aground or sinking, then the prevailing winds and currents could have set them ashore anywhere to the northwest from the area where the storm hit the fleet. The wreckage would have been easily found for several months later.
When I was in Bajo Nuevo, I wasted some time looking at a recently, probably only a few months before, wrecked fishing boat. It gave me a good feeling how the wreckage of a ship that hits the reef from the east, scatters.
However, the fishermen told me of ballast piles on the west side of the bank. Funny enough, the fishermen that told me of the ballast piles, saw my own boat within the coral reefs and came to salvage hat they could from it. When I told them that we were diving for old shipwrecks, after a few bottles of Rum, they showed me some stuff they picked up near the ballast piles. They were regularly fishing for lobsters, conch and grouper on the banks.
Spear fishing.
Two men per dugout. One paddling, the other one spear fishing.
About 10 dugouts on their boat.
Miskito Indians. Nice people.
CP
One minute my good friends, let’s all not forget that there has been substantial information placing one of the Cordoba fleet galleons on Mexico’s Bahia de Ascension, Yucatan peninsula, State of Quintana Roo. Vox Veritas had this narrative in great detail in his earlier website but I suspect that he has determined this account to lack veracity as it was not included in his book. Any thoughts on this Vox? Indeed there are some documentary accounts that place a 1605 wreck in this part of the world. Some of us have even been there to corroborate this thanks to these accounts.
Panfilo
Panfilo
Vox veritas
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2008
- 1,077
- 269
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Panfilo said:
Well,
who gives information is Francisco Nuñez Melian, but my opinion is that it is not very reliable, as many others which were subsequently reported. But ..... ?? No further investigation of this information. I found several statements on a galleon sunk in the Bay of Asension.
VV
Colombiapictures
Full Member
- May 7, 2010
- 123
- 71
- Thread starter
- #149
Chagy said:
Chagy,
these are absolutely fantastic pictures. Ahhhh, if I had had all the information available nowadays, at the time I was there.
The shipwreck is interesting. Did Mackaydon mention that one?
Interesting coincidences. When I was there, in the same general area of the reef, there was the wrecked fishing boat that I mentioned above.
It was much smaller of course.
Then, just a very little bit further south is the wreck of the "GLEE MAIDEN", an English ship that wrecked in 1816, or was it 1819? I don't quite remember.
The British Navy then sent out a ship to chart the reef. The data on my charts of Bajo Nuevo were from this original mapping survey.
CP
- Oct 26, 2004
- 24,128
- 22,932
- 🏆 Honorable Mentions:
- 2
- Detector(s) used
- Minelab Explorer
- Primary Interest:
- Shipwrecks
CP:
Yes, in the past, I have mentioned siting a large vessel (Liberty Ship??) run aground on Bajo Nuevo; also the appearance of lobster boats anchored off the western shore.
Don........
Yes, in the past, I have mentioned siting a large vessel (Liberty Ship??) run aground on Bajo Nuevo; also the appearance of lobster boats anchored off the western shore.
Don........
Vox veritas
Bronze Member
- Aug 2, 2008
- 1,077
- 269
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Chagy said:
All information so far known about the galleons of 1659 is wrong (Marx, Pickford, Potter).
VV
Colombiapictures
Full Member
- May 7, 2010
- 123
- 71
- Thread starter
- #153
Mackaydon said:
There we have a good example of several shipwrecks , spread over many years, nearly on top of each other.
The actual wrecks are some distance apart, but I am sure, the bits and pieces of these 3 wrecks are intermingled.
This is one of the challenges of locating the treasure galleons.
CP
Oceanscience
Full Member
- May 23, 2010
- 207
- 201
Mackaydon said:
Lobster boats anchored off the western shore.
Harvesting the sea.
Many years ago, Arthur C. Clarke wrote a book about cultivating the Oceans. Among other things he proposed milking the Whales instead of killing them. I forgot the books name.
It is an interesting and thought provoking fact that Arthur C. Clark also found and recovered one of the very first, famous shipwreck treasures.
Arthur C. Clarke had a great vision of the future. He was capable of looking into the outer space with Space Odyssey, but also looking into the Inner space of the Oceans that cover three quarters of the globe.
2001: A Space Odyssey
Another Ocean pioneer is Robert Stenuit. Not only is he one of the grandfathers of Underwater Archaeology, researching and locating many famous shipwrecks, but he is also a pioneer in Helium Saturation diving.
He wrote many books, including:
"The Dolphin, Cousin to Man" By: Robert Stenuit
http://www.nothingtosea.com/docs/immersed_rs.pdf
Most people who harvest the sea, develop a passion for the sea. For the life in the sea, for everything in and about the Oceans.
Oceanscience
Colombiapictures
Full Member
- May 7, 2010
- 123
- 71
- Thread starter
- #155
Here is an overlay of the old map and the modern chart.
It does not coincide perfectly, but that is the way the old charts were.
We can see that the old chart had the Pedro Bank divided into "Bivoras" and "Ranas". Snakes and Frogs.
The modern chart shows the Bajo Nuevo undivided, that is without the channel that can be very well seen on the aerial picture. My old chart from 1821, or thereabouts, also shows the deep channel between the two parts. Interesting to see that the modern chart is less accurate.
There are more clues.... more pieces of the puzzle to come...
CP
It does not coincide perfectly, but that is the way the old charts were.
We can see that the old chart had the Pedro Bank divided into "Bivoras" and "Ranas". Snakes and Frogs.
The modern chart shows the Bajo Nuevo undivided, that is without the channel that can be very well seen on the aerial picture. My old chart from 1821, or thereabouts, also shows the deep channel between the two parts. Interesting to see that the modern chart is less accurate.
There are more clues.... more pieces of the puzzle to come...
CP
Attachments
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
Gold Member
good Evening mi swabbie friends: Since no-one has found it using conventional thinking, how about a mule drivers interpretation?
It is N/E from first contact with the storm, not in the southern quadrant. As mentioned, in deep water.
Don Jose de La Mancha
It is N/E from first contact with the storm, not in the southern quadrant. As mentioned, in deep water.
Don Jose de La Mancha
Salvor6
Silver Member
- Feb 5, 2005
- 3,755
- 2,169
- Detector(s) used
- Aquapulse, J.W. Fisher Proton 3, Pulse Star II, Detector Pro Headhunter, AK-47
- Primary Interest:
- Shipwrecks
Don Jose de la Mancha is right on this one!
Don José, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say, please be a little more specific. They haven’t been found because nobody has been able to look for them properly don Jose, not because they’re hiding somewhere different from where they should be. The only modern exploration that has been done here for these galleons was the Pacific Geographic Society in the mid ninety’s and they concentrated themselves in searching in the shallows, from what little there is published by them. The story that is told here, not sure if it’s true or false, is that they did find some gold, blasted some coral with dynamite, left a Colombian Navy diver stranded and were never to be seen again. The diver had to swim for several miles against the current and he eventually made it to Beacon Key. It is said, again not sure, that there is a murder charge pending here for one or more of these gentlemen. That is the story I heard from people who had access to the details at that time.
Panfilo
Panfilo
Colombiapictures
Full Member
- May 7, 2010
- 123
- 71
- Thread starter
- #159
I tend to agree with Panfilo there.
Very little serious search has been done for the 1605 galleons. The region where they possibly sank, is very large, thousands of square miles.
To cover such a large area in the search, even with the most modern technology, will take years.
The remoteness, the hurricane season, the Northers in the winter time, all this makes the project a long term project, spanning many years.
Fortunately, there are many other rich shipwrecks in the same area, that will be found as "collateral damage".
But what good are the billions of dollars worth in gold and silver and emeralds and rare artifacts, if they can not be sold?
If they can not be converted into cash?
How can the cost of such an operation be payed?
CP
Very little serious search has been done for the 1605 galleons. The region where they possibly sank, is very large, thousands of square miles.
To cover such a large area in the search, even with the most modern technology, will take years.
The remoteness, the hurricane season, the Northers in the winter time, all this makes the project a long term project, spanning many years.
Fortunately, there are many other rich shipwrecks in the same area, that will be found as "collateral damage".
But what good are the billions of dollars worth in gold and silver and emeralds and rare artifacts, if they can not be sold?
If they can not be converted into cash?
How can the cost of such an operation be payed?
CP
bronzecannons
Full Member
Screw UNESCO and their idea of leaving all wrecks as they are 'in-situ'.
Didn't Odyssey already prove that even the deep water wrecks are getting dispersed and destroyed by the fishing trawlers with their deep trolling nets raking the sea bed? On one of their documentaries, they had visited a wreck site once and mapped everything and then when they went back to that site several months later some cannons had clearly been dragged several meters. Is that a good thing
Just my five cents worth.
TW
Didn't Odyssey already prove that even the deep water wrecks are getting dispersed and destroyed by the fishing trawlers with their deep trolling nets raking the sea bed? On one of their documentaries, they had visited a wreck site once and mapped everything and then when they went back to that site several months later some cannons had clearly been dragged several meters. Is that a good thing
Just my five cents worth.
TW
Top Member Reactions
-
2152 -
1031 -
986 -
926 -
851 -
798 -
784 -
702 -
573 -
545 -
473 -
461 -
O
457
-
432 -
427 -
419 -
418 -
406 -
371 -
368
