Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
Is the Jacob Waltz listed on the Ville de Lyon the Jacob Waltz of the Lost Dutchman Mine legend ?
Is the Jacob Waltz listed on the Ville de Lyon the Jacob Waltz of the Lost Dutchman Mine legend ?
The Jacob Waltz of the Lost Dutchman goldmine legend was born in 1810 according to Arizona Territory and Phoenix census information.
The Jacob Waltz on the ship "Ville de Lyon" was recorded as 20 years old on that voyage of July 13, 1839. That would make his birth year 1819.
I'll look again, but was remembering the age listed as "28" years old on that voyage, and in July, that seems to fit? The Waltz on the "Ville de Lyon" would have been born in 1810.
Matthew,
It definitely says he was 28 years old on the "Ville de Lyon", and that was in July.
I saw something that you had put together a while back called "The Life of Jacob Waltz", and the census months seemed to be mostly in September or October with the earliest month listed was August.
I don't recall the day/month that our LDM Waltz was born?
That would be useful information right about now. . . .
Idaho Dutch
Matthew,
We both were posting near same time, I looked again, very close. There is no doubt, that the caption under the picture of the passenger list says "28" years of age.
Now I am looking at the passenger list, and it shows . . . . it is somewhat unclear to me. It is either a small zero with additional markings that could have been intended as the completion of the 8?
This may be something that Mr. Glover has already looked at and was able to say with such certainty that is says "28".
It would be a fairly big blunder . . . . if were me, and I was writing a book, I would want to make sure on something like that.
Matthew,
It definitely says he was 28 years old on the "Ville de Lyon", and that was in July.
I saw something that you had put together a while back called "The Life of Jacob Waltz", and the census months seemed to be mostly in September or October with the earliest month listed was August.
I don't recall the day/month that our LDM Waltz was born?
That would be useful information right about now. . . .
Idaho Dutch
april 1st 1810Matthew,
So when looking at the different census figures that you include in your writing, they all put his birth year as 1810 (by doing the math), but only if he was born sometime in August or earlier.
If he was born in November, then the age given in many of the census figures do not match. (Perhaps a problem for the Ville de Lyon Waltz vs census data).
My question is do we really know what month (Our LDM) Waltz was born, or better yet, actual DOB?
Sincerely,
Idaho Dutch
Idahodutch,
There is no question the Jacob Waltz on the Ville de Lyon passenger list was 20 years old , not 28.
Many years back Don Vardon came forward with the Ville de Lyon passenger list as a possible candidate for the Lost Dutchman Mine's Jacob Waltz. Several discrepancies with who Jacob Waltz was commonly believed to be were noted but because the passenger list had not yet been transcribed it was a wait and see issue.
In May 2010 the Ville de Lyon passenger list was transcribed by the International Ship Transcribers Guild (ISTG).
These are professionals with a team of experts with the latest technology behind them. Not one but three experts are involved in every transcribe. The one who does the initial transcribe and two others who review the transcribe for any discrepancies or mistakes the originator might have missed. Not until all three experts agree on the accuracy of the transcript is it released to the public. All three experts came to the unanimous conclusion that #308 on the Ville de Lyon passenger list was Jacob Waltz, age 20 of Wirtemberg.
The Jacob Waltz on the Ville de Lyon passenger list can be traced and he did not travel much farther than New York after his arrival in America.
Matthew,
Thank you for sharing. I hope you don't mind my asking a couple of questions;
- Was the Ville de Lyon passenger list transcribed in 2010, because of Jacob Waltz?
- Were these 3 experts, the ones who made the list of 24 passenger entries that had questionable accuracy?
- Was there more than one transcription of this passenger list?
Dave,
For real on the date? or is that like "April Fools"?
Idaho Dutch
Matthew,
Thank you for sharing. I hope you don't mind my asking a couple of questions;
- Was the Ville de Lyon passenger list transcribed in 2010, because of Jacob Waltz?
- Were these 3 experts, the ones who made the list of 24 passenger entries that had questionable accuracy?
- Was there more than one transcription of this passenger list?
Dave,
For real on the date? or is that like "April Fools"?
Idaho Dutch
Matthew,
Thank you for letting me know.
So then getting back to your original question for this thread; It doesn't look like he is old enough to be the LDM Waltz.
Now a different question, Where did the Waltz from Abstatt go? Is he the LDM Waltz, but just didn't come over on the Ville de Lyon? But he was born in November and the census data for the LDM Waltz wouldn't match.
It is starting to look like the Abstatt Waltz may not be the LDM Waltz?
Until more data surfaces, we may never know the entire story.
Idaho Dutch
Matthew,
Thank you for letting me know.
So then getting back to your original question for this thread; It doesn't look like he is old enough to be the LDM Waltz.
Now a different question, Where did the Waltz from Abstatt go? Is he the LDM Waltz, but just didn't come over on the Ville de Lyon? But he was born in November and the census data for the LDM Waltz wouldn't match.
It is starting to look like the Abstatt Waltz may not be the LDM Waltz?
Until more data surfaces, we may never know the entire story.
Idaho Dutch