Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[Garry]

All,

I wanted to try and tighten the timeline for Walter’s last trip into the Superstitions. Dr. Glover has an image of the Medical Examiner’s report on Page 241 of his Book "The Golden Dream". It provides a foundation for beginning to establish a timeline and possibly answering some questions. I hope Roland will be able to share some thoughts as he indicated he talked with some of the Pinal County officials.



May 4, 1984 was on a Friday when the body was recovered.

According to Dr. Glover’s account:

On Tuesday, May 2[SUP]nd[/SUP], 1984 he (Walter Gassler) unloaded his pack at First Water, and said goodbye to his wife, reminding her to pick him up in just three days ---- for his plan was to hike in on Tuesday, establish camp, locate the mine on Wednesday and return on Thursday.

Tuesday was actually May 1[SUP]st[/SUP], 1984.

Walter's birthday was May 3[SUP]rd[/SUP], 1984 on which he would have been 82 years old.

Personnel, acronyms and miscellaneous items on the report.

Agency - Pinal County Sheriff’s Office
P.C.S.O. – Pinal County Sheriff’s Office
M. E. O. – Medical Examiner’s Office
M.E.C. – Medical Examiner Coordinator (Charles R. Stevens P.D. FACNHA)
P.C.S.O. M. E. - Pinal County Sheriff’s Office Medical Examiner – (Solis)
Medical Examiner Non-Forensic: (Leon A. Olsen M. D.)
Medical Investigator (Tucson)
Reporting Officer - (Berry Harrington, Pinal County Sheriff’s Office)

Transportation: Kubler Mortuary (Apache Junction, Pinal County, Arizona)

Comments: Dead 2 or 3 Days - Go into Superstitions on 4/5/1984 D. P. S. Chopper [The date is obviously intended to represent May 4, 1984]

Questions:
D. R.# - [What does D. R. stand for?] Death Report Number?
D. P. S. Chopper – [What does D. P. S. stand for?] I think Roland used this acronym in one of his posts.
P.D. FACNHA - What does this stand for?
What does Red Tag mean?

Thoughts Regarding the Medical Examiner’s Report:

It appears to me that all of the hand writing on the report is that of Dr. Leon A. Olsen (Medical Examiner Non-Forensic)?

From other information I believe that Pinal County may have sometimes used the forensic facilities in Tucson but in the Walter Gassler case it was all handled within Pinal County.

There are two times denoted on the M.E. Report

The death occurred; LaBarge Canyon on Friday May 4[SUP]th[/SUP] at 1806 (Body Found - Hand Written Note)

Would this be when the Pinal County officials reached the body? Not when Shade found the body? I would eventually like to establish a ballpark time for when Shade found the body.

The Medical Examiner Coordinator was notified on Friday May 4[SUP]th[/SUP] at 1846. This sounds like when the PSCO first contacted the Pinal County, Medical Examiner Coordinator?

I’ll stop here for the time being but I would like to know roughly,the time Shade found the body? Where did the Chopper land? How far beyond Charlebois Springs had Walter traveled before having his heart attack? How did the sheriff’s officers reach Charlebois Springs? By Chopper or did they use horses? How was Walter going to contact his wife to come and pick him up on his return to First Water or did she try to meet him there on Thursday evening.

Roland, is Dr. Glover’s account true to Walter’s original plan to the best of your knowledge?

Lots more questions.

Garry

 

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[azdave35]

Yeap Dave, I don't have any problem with that part of the story. My Dad would have been the same way. Its "the rest" of the story that gets down right kinky.

i think this whole gassler thing has gotten blown out of proportion....in my opinion gassler found a mine but hadnt opened it up yet..if he had opened it he would have had some ore to show corbin and kollenborn....

 

[Loke]

i think this whole gassler thing has gotten blown out of proportion....in my opinion gassler found a mine but hadnt opened it up yet..if he had opened it he would have had some ore to show corbin and kollenborn....

But there _was_ gold involved - what the false RG showed TK claiming (note!) that it was from the backpack.

 

[azdave35]

But there _was_ gold involved - what the false RG showed TK claiming (note!) that it was from the backpack.

...but he was the fake roland...who knows where he got the ore from...he might have bought it off ebay...if walt gassler would have shown corbin and kollenborn ore like that neither men would have hesitated to go in the mountains with walt

 

[RWGassler]

Bill,
I think your use of the word knapsack better describes what my father took with him. See my post on page 9 for a description of what happened (not ignoring you, just easier than retyping). There are no pictures to my knowledge, unless there were some taken by DPS or Coroner which we did not receive as part of the report we were given. I think some people are interpreting my fathers last trip as one in which he was going to do actual digging once he got to his destination, however, I believe what he actually was going to do was explore the area to determine if his new found information was correct and whether it truly led him to the potential site if the LDM.
RWGassler

 

[Old]

I'm just guessing here.

DPS = Dept. of Public Safety. In the case of the helicopter most likely Az. Dept of Public Safety. I don't know if Pinal Co. is/was large enough to have its own helicopter. you guys can better answer that.

Red Tag is interesting. I'm assuming that's an error. A Red tag indicates a person who is in critical condition but may survive if immediate attention is give. Black tag means found dead.

The "found" time is also interesting. Would have made more sense if that word was "recovered".

Appears the chopper recovered the body, transported it to "probably" home helipad where it was picked up by the mortuary. Examination was performed at the mortuary.

The comments following the report appear to me to be the instructions to the helicopter pilot initially with the source of that information being a second hand party.

All this are guesses so take them with a grain of salt.

Lynda

 

[cactusjumper]

I'm just guessing here.

DPS = Dept. of Public Safety. In the case of the helicopter most likely Az. Dept of Public Safety. I don't know if Pinal Co. is/was large enough to have its own helicopter. you guys can better answer that.

Red Tag is interesting. I'm assuming that's an error. A Red tag indicates a person who is in critical condition but may survive if immediate attention is give. Black tag means found dead.

The "found" time is also interesting. Would have made more sense if that word was "recovered".

Appears the chopper recovered the body, transported it to "probably" home helipad where it was picked up by the mortuary. Examination was performed at the mortuary.

The comments following the report appear to me to be the instructions to the helicopter pilot initially with the source of that information being a second hand party.

All this are guesses so take them with a grain of salt.

Lynda

Lynda,

Nothing wrong with guessing, IMHO, as long as you label it that way. Some have just made up their "facts" out of thin air. As long as you don't claim to have given Walt his favorite dog for his birthday, you're good.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Here are a couple of posts from back around 2002:
_________________________________________[h=3]I believe Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin know the details of the dissapearing knapsack. Bob's wife , Helen, touched on it briefly in her book, "Curse of the Dutchman's Gold". Both Maricopa and Pinal County Sheriff's sent men out to investigate Walt's death as it was difficult to tell which County he died in. Neither report mentioned the knapsack, but there are a lot of other things that didn't appear in those reports. Walt died coming down the Charley-boy trail not going up as is commonly reported. His camp was found, set up and in disarray in a Laurel grove up on the Mesa. A camp he frequently used. <br>There are a lot of questions surrounding his death. Walt died of a heart attack and it appeared to be natural causes. No autopsy or forensic investigatin was done, in fact an MD signed his death certificate. Very unusual for the circumstances. The man who discovered Walt's body ( a man known well by Ron Feldman) left everything as he found it and hurried out of the mountains to alert authorities. When the first Pinal Co. deputy arrived there were several men moving up the trail above and away from Walts body. They stood above and watched for a time, then dissapeared up onto the Mesa. <br>Neither Sheriff's deputies questioned these men. The only people camped on the Mesa at that particular time were some of Crazy Jake's partners. There is some good hard evidence as well as a confession that Jerry Sherwood packed Walt into his camp on the Mesa. Jerry Sherwood was also packing Jake and his partners back then also. <br>I don't know if Walt had a knapsack or gold with him when he died. I do know the circumstances of his being there are very confusing to say the least. <br>Deputies found Walt with only about a quart of water and a small bag of personal items. Where was his camping gear if he was going up and into his camp as is commonly reported ? I know there are others who have looked into this yourselves, to the point of backtracking Walt's last movements. Maybe someone out there can throw some light on the issue.[/h]
Excellent post Matt. <br> <br>The point you bring up about Walt's camping gear (or the lack thereof) on his hike "up" to the Mesa has been conveniently overlooked by most folks doing analysis on this subject. It's something, I think, that can not be stressed too strongly. Did Walter Gassler make it up to Peters Mesa before he died coming down OFF the Mesa? <br>Hard evidence and logic seems to say there is a strong possiblity of this happening. <br> <br>The case has been made that Walt was 83 years old and there is no way he could have hiked up to his camp on Peters Mesa <br>all in one day. If one reads about Walts trip into the mountains in May of 1983 ( a year before his fateful trip in May of 1984)one comes away with the fact that Walt was having a hard time of it, became disoriented and had to turn back. You would then logically assume that there is no way he would have been able to make the same trip a year later. <br> <br>The key factor here, I think, is the location from where he made his trek into the mountains. In 1983 he went in from the Peralta Trailhead, and as such would have had to deal with the climb up the Dutchman Trail (where he said he went). In 1984 he went in from First Water (remembering, no doubt, his experience the year before),which, I believe would have been a much easier journey for Walter. <br> <br>Tha above, of course, doesnt take into account the possiblity of him being packed into the Peters Mesa area, which, of course is another possibility. <br> <br>Once on the Mesa did Walt uncover the LDM and take out a good sampling of the gold? Well....no, at least I do not think so. Walt thought there were two mines, one on the Mesa proper and one in a "hidden" canyon that he thought was the mine of the Soldiers and Deering. He also thought that Waltz had found a cache (s) in a rock house up on the Mesa, rather than a mine. Walt was adamant before his last trip in that he had finally figured out the "source of Waltz's gold". I think reading between the lines here he meant that he had figured out where a cache was. <br> <br>Did Walt find a "saddlebag" of gold ore like the Kocheras did? I doubt it. (I also doubt the Kocheras "found" a saddlebag full of ore by dumb luck, but thats a story for another day). <br> <br>In any event, I dont want to be longwinded here...the subject of Walter Gassler has always been near and dear to me...hopefully others more knowledgeable than I wont might sharing after these 20 years or so....

________________________

The post from the archives all say "count" as the author. Although he could move the posts, for some reason he couldn't transfer the poster's names.

There are many old posts that shed some light on those who were friends of Walter Gassler. They are a little tough to access, but it can be done.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Not many people were claiming to be close friends with Walter Gassler back in 2002. At least not on these forums, or others in existence.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

I believe this used to be posted on this site as well as where I got it:

[Aurum
05-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Twenty-four years ago this week, Walter Gassler passed awayin the Superstition mountains while searching for the Lost Dutchman mine.Walter was 82 years old and had been an avid Dutch hunter for over 50 years.
Some here knew Walter personally, most all here have heardof him and read his manuscript as well as read stories of his life that haveappeared in numerous publications.

Walter was a kind and generous man, well liked by all whomet him and a very intelligent and thoughtful person. Walter was born inZurich, Switzerland in 1902. He had three brothers and one sister, Walter wasthe only member of his family to come to the United States. In 1922 he landedat Ellis Island and lived in New York for a time. He traveled and lived in NewOrleans and San Francisco before arriving in Arizona to live in 1932. Walterwas a chef by trade, trained in Europe and kitchens in New Orleans and SanFrancisco. he came to Arizona to work at the prestegious Biltmore Hotel butalso prepared food at the Hyatt Regency, Paradise Valley Country Club and otherfine dining establishments around the Valley of the Sun.

Not many realize Walter was not his real name. His real namewas Karl. He changed it to Walter in 1942 because of his heavy Swiss (German)accent and the discrimination against German immigrants during WWII. he alwayswent by Walter from that time on. He said it sounded more American and made himfeel more accepted.

Walter learned everything he could about the Lost Dutchmanmine and Jacob Waltz. He spent considerable time in the Bancroft Library inBerkley California and other repositories of books and documents, readingeverything he could find about Waltz and the Peralta's and anything related tothe legends and tales. He spent time in the Superstition mountains in the late1920's before he resided in Arizona, making annual treks into the mountainssearching for Waltz's lost mine. When he came to arizona to live, he spentconsiderable time at Tex Barkley's Quarter Circle U ranch and became closefriends with Barkley and his whole family.

Walter met and married Coletta Hatfield in Phoenix in 1937.The Gasslers had two children, a boy Roland and a girl Marie. Neither Walter'swife nor their children shared Walter's enthusiasm for the mountains or thelost mine but walter continued to make annual treks into the mountainssearching for the mine and short trips whenever he could get away.

On May 1, 1984, Walter Gassler made his last trek into theSuperstition mountains searching for the Lost Dutchman Goldmine. On friday May4, 1984 two men found Walter Gassler sitting on a rock along the Peter's Mesatrail just above Charley-Boy and LaBarge Canyon. Walter had died sometimebefore, succuming to a heart attack according to the coroners report.

The Gassler family, his friends and the dutchman communityas a whole lost a good man and a good friend that day. Walter left behind amanuscript which is a treasure itself to those who follow in his footsteps. Tothose who knew Walter, his words and friendship and smile will always beremembered and his spirit will always be a part of the Superstition Mountainswhich were such an important part of his life.

Aurum]

Seems appropriate.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[deducer]

Here are a couple of posts from back around 2002:
_________________________________________[h=3]I believe Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin know the details of the dissapearing knapsack. Bob's wife , Helen, touched on it briefly in her book, "Curse of the Dutchman's Gold". Both Maricopa and Pinal County Sheriff's sent men out to investigate Walt's death as it was difficult to tell which County he died in. Neither report mentioned the knapsack, but there are a lot of other things that didn't appear in those reports. Walt died coming down the Charley-boy trail not going up as is commonly reported. His camp was found, set up and in disarray in a Laurel grove up on the Mesa. A camp he frequently used. <br>There are a lot of questions surrounding his death. Walt died of a heart attack and it appeared to be natural causes. No autopsy or forensic investigatin was done, in fact an MD signed his death certificate. Very unusual for the circumstances. The man who discovered Walt's body ( a man known well by Ron Feldman) left everything as he found it and hurried out of the mountains to alert authorities. When the first Pinal Co. deputy arrived there were several men moving up the trail above and away from Walts body. They stood above and watched for a time, then dissapeared up onto the Mesa. <br>Neither Sheriff's deputies questioned these men. The only people camped on the Mesa at that particular time were some of Crazy Jake's partners. There is some good hard evidence as well as a confession that Jerry Sherwood packed Walt into his camp on the Mesa. Jerry Sherwood was also packing Jake and his partners back then also. <br>I don't know if Walt had a knapsack or gold with him when he died. I do know the circumstances of his being there are very confusing to say the least. <br>Deputies found Walt with only about a quart of water and a small bag of personal items. Where was his camping gear if he was going up and into his camp as is commonly reported ? I know there are others who have looked into this yourselves, to the point of backtracking Walt's last movements. Maybe someone out there can throw some light on the issue.[/h]
Excellent post Matt. <br> <br>The point you bring up about Walt's camping gear (or the lack thereof) on his hike "up" to the Mesa has been conveniently overlooked by most folks doing analysis on this subject. It's something, I think, that can not be stressed too strongly. Did Walter Gassler make it up to Peters Mesa before he died coming down OFF the Mesa? <br>Hard evidence and logic seems to say there is a strong possiblity of this happening. <br> <br>The case has been made that Walt was 83 years old and there is no way he could have hiked up to his camp on Peters Mesa <br>all in one day. If one reads about Walts trip into the mountains in May of 1983 ( a year before his fateful trip in May of 1984)one comes away with the fact that Walt was having a hard time of it, became disoriented and had to turn back. You would then logically assume that there is no way he would have been able to make the same trip a year later. <br> <br>The key factor here, I think, is the location from where he made his trek into the mountains. In 1983 he went in from the Peralta Trailhead, and as such would have had to deal with the climb up the Dutchman Trail (where he said he went). In 1984 he went in from First Water (remembering, no doubt, his experience the year before),which, I believe would have been a much easier journey for Walter. <br> <br>Tha above, of course, doesnt take into account the possiblity of him being packed into the Peters Mesa area, which, of course is another possibility. <br> <br>Once on the Mesa did Walt uncover the LDM and take out a good sampling of the gold? Well....no, at least I do not think so. Walt thought there were two mines, one on the Mesa proper and one in a "hidden" canyon that he thought was the mine of the Soldiers and Deering. He also thought that Waltz had found a cache (s) in a rock house up on the Mesa, rather than a mine. Walt was adamant before his last trip in that he had finally figured out the "source of Waltz's gold". I think reading between the lines here he meant that he had figured out where a cache was. <br> <br>Did Walt find a "saddlebag" of gold ore like the Kocheras did? I doubt it. (I also doubt the Kocheras "found" a saddlebag full of ore by dumb luck, but thats a story for another day). <br> <br>In any event, I dont want to be longwinded here...the subject of Walter Gassler has always been near and dear to me...hopefully others more knowledgeable than I wont might sharing after these 20 years or so....

________________________

The post from the archives all say "count" as the author. Although he could move the posts, for some reason he couldn't transfer the poster's names.

There are many old posts that shed some light on those who were friends of Walter Gassler. They are a little tough to access, but it can be done.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,

The first post is from Matt, the second, Peter. I have read enough of their posts to know who is who.

Peter believed that Walt thought that there was a mine on Peter's Mesa near the confluence of Lost Ridge and Gassler's wash.

 

[cactusjumper]

deducer,

"Joe,

The first post is from Matt, the second, Peter. I have read enough of their posts to know who is who.

Peter believed that Walt thought that there was a mine on Peter's Mesa near the confluence of Lost Ridge and Gassler's wash."

I knew who both posters were as well. I didn't want to use their names as the sources, because they sometimes deny having written some posts where they are quoted. At least, Matthew has.

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Azquester]

From the Archives. I think this is Ron Feldman speaking but not sure as they could only transfer the statements.

Is the man named Mitch the fake Roland Gassler?

In reference to Don Shade. Don lived at my place for many years and I spent alot of time talking Dutchman to him. He was a unique individual. I really do miss him. Don thought someone was watching him when he came upon Gassler,the someone he conjured up was a man that I packed into the mountains the same time Don was out there. This is the person he thought was there. While it is true that this man was dropped right across from where Gassler was found, I must say that Don was very paranoid about everything. I doubt anyone was watching or spying on him. The man was not seen ; however again. His name was Mitch, That is what I remember. I would like to mention Don Shade was one of the most honest men I have ever met, paranoid ,yes, but honest.

 

[azdave35]

From the Archives. I think this is Ron Feldman speaking but not sure as they could only transfer the statements.

Is the man named Mitch the fake Roland Gassler?

if he is the mitch i'm thinking about he is a pretty upstanging individual....he would not have bothered gassler

 

[gollum]

Everyone,

Sorry about the Unsolved Mysteries Video getting pulled, but either Viacom or Cosgrove-Meurer Productions complained that my VHS Quality, single segment (not the whole episode), absolutely not for profit video posting violated their "fair use" policy (they are currently selling the sets of episodes online), so I get a YouTube Copyright Strike against me. HAHAHA

Roland,

In the video, they showed your dad wearing a large wooden framed backpack, but I think (without looking back) that you described the police saying that since your dad was wearing a soft backpack, they just left it on him when they transported him out of the mountains. Is that what you were referring to Bill?

Everyone,

I have heard a lot of conspiratorial stuff about that backpack. Isn't it just as possible that someone in either the Police Dept, or the Coroner's Office went to inventory the backpack and found the gold, or just took the backpack hoping to find some new info? I am sure everybody in the building knew they had brought in the body of a long time Dutch Hunter. The only issue I see with that theory is howcouldthat random government worker know Tom K had a map or manuscript? If the fake Roland showed up a month or so after Walter's Death, maybe the person that stole the backpack saw an interview with Tom K, and heard Tom say he had spoken to Gassler before going into the mountains, and assumed he had a map? Just tossing around ideas.

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Everyone,

Sorry about the Unsolved Mysteries Video getting pulled, but either Viacom or Cosgrove-Meurer Productions complained that my VHS Quality, single segment (not the whole episode), absolutely not for profit video posting violated their "fair use" policy (they are currently selling the sets of episodes online), so I get a YouTube Copyright Strike against me. HAHAHA

Roland,

In the video, they showed your dad wearing a large wooden framed backpack, but I think (without looking back) that you described the police saying that since your dad was wearing a soft backpack, they just left it on him when they transported him out of the mountains. Is that what you were referring to Bill?

Everyone,

I have heard a lot of conspiratorial stuff about that backpack. Isn't it just as possible that someone in either the Police Dept, or the Coroner's Office went to inventory the backpack and found the gold, or just took the backpack hoping to find some new info? I am sure everybody in the building knew they had brought in the body of a long time Dutch Hunter. The only issue I see with that theory is howcouldthat random government worker know Tom K had a map or manuscript? If the fake Roland showed up a month or so after Walter's Death, maybe the person that stole the backpack saw an interview with Tom K, and heard Tom say he had spoken to Gassler before going into the mountains, and assumed he had a map? Just tossing around ideas.

Mike

Mike,

The story goes: "That weekend a man appeared at Tom's home. He introduced himself as Walt Gassler's son and was invited in."

That was the weekend immediately following Walt's death. Nothing had laid around for long. You may want to be careful who's "conspiratorial stuff" you are listening. Some people's stuff is better than others. Know what I mean?

Take care,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Everyone,

Sorry about the Unsolved Mysteries Video getting pulled, but either Viacom or Cosgrove-Meurer Productions complained that my VHS Quality, single segment (not the whole episode), absolutely not for profit video posting violated their "fair use" policy (they are currently selling the sets of episodes online), so I get a YouTube Copyright Strike against me. HAHAHA

Roland,

In the video, they showed your dad wearing a large wooden framed backpack, but I think (without looking back) that you described the police saying that since your dad was wearing a soft backpack, they just left it on him when they transported him out of the mountains. Is that what you were referring to Bill?

Everyone,

I have heard a lot of conspiratorial stuff about that backpack. Isn't it just as possible that someone in either the Police Dept, or the Coroner's Office went to inventory the backpack and found the gold, or just took the backpack hoping to find some new info? I am sure everybody in the building knew they had brought in the body of a long time Dutch Hunter. The only issue I see with that theory is howcouldthat random government worker know Tom K had a map or manuscript? If the fake Roland showed up a month or so after Walter's Death, maybe the person that stole the backpack saw an interview with Tom K, and heard Tom say he had spoken to Gassler before going into the mountains, and assumed he had a map? Just tossing around ideas.

Mike

mike...i dont think law enforcement gets too excited about pulling a dutch hunter out of the hills...i think its more that they are pissed cuz they have to go in there on horseback and haul him out....they are used to driving to crime scenes..lol....and as far as the back pack goes..i doubt if he had anything but supplies in it...he was on his way in when he died

 

[gollum]

Mike,

The story goes: "That weekend a man appeared at Tom's home. He introduced himself as Walt Gassler's son and was invited in."

That was the weekend immediately following Walt's death. Nothing had laid around for long. You may want to be careful who's "conspiratorial stuff" you are listening. Some people's stuff is better than others. Know what I mean?

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

You know I luvya and all, but does every one of your posts need to be about Matthew? I think every single person knows exactly what you mean every time you reference him. What I posted had nothing to do with Matthew. In the years I have been at this, I have heard a lot of things from and about a LOT of people.

I wasn't ever going to mention this again (for reasons I hope everyone will understand), BUT it is a stellar example of how crazy crap gets out there;At this years Rendezvous, someone (who shall remain nameless) who is a long time member of SAR (Search And Rescue) told me that Kurt Painter said to him (SAR) that Jim Hatt told him (Painter) he(Hatt) had been the one that pushed Jesse Capen off that cliff on Tortilla. I knew Jim. We weren't swapping spit in the shower close, but I knew the man FAIRLY well. When I quietly mentioned what I had heard to Greg Davis, he seemed to find it a bit amusing and suggested we ask Ton Kollenborn. Tom poopooed the idea immediately. Mainly because when Jesse went off that cliff, Jim was going through the worst part of his cancer.

............. and one other thing; a different member of SAR and I were talking about deaths in the mountains and getting shot at. When the discussion turned to Jesse Capen, I asked her about the two sleeping bags in his tent. She told me that since Jesse was a big boy, his mother had sewn two sleeping bags together so he could fit in them. Those were the only two sleeping bags found in the tent.

When I mentioned getting shot at to "someone who shall also remain nameless" (you know who you are HAHAHA), he said he didn't believe anyone was shooting AT me. He posited that people are always shooting guns down in the flats along Peralta Road, and it was likely a stray bullet. I was around Peralta Trail on the SouthEast corner of Superstition climbing up in those little arroyos and rockfalls. I was not within sight of the flats. When I was talking to the lady SAR Member, she told me that about eight months before, they were searching for someone lost, and some old mountain rat took several shots at them. They knew who it was and littered his camp with notes saying they knew who he was, and he better stop his crap.

So, my friend, even the good folks in Search And Rescue get shot at in the Supers. If you wish to confirm my statement, her name was either Alex or Alexis. She also volunteers at Lost Dutchman State Park. She was also quite the looker (that is why I kept that conversation going so long. HAHAHA But her boyfriend is also in SAR (and was there as well). He was a very nice guy, and lucky too! Any woman that can do The Flatiron in 30 minutes (and is that attractive) is A'OK in my book!

Mike

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

I wasn't ever going to mention this again (for reasons I hope everyone will understand), BUT it is a stellar example of how crazy crap gets out there;At this years Rendezvous, someone (who shall remain nameless) who is a long time member of SAR (Search And Rescue) told me that Kurt Painter said to him (SAR) that Jim Hatt told him (Painter) he(Hatt) had been the one that pushed Jesse Capen off that cliff on Tortilla. I knew Jim. We weren't swapping spit in the shower close, but I knew the man FAIRLY well. When I quietly mentioned what I had heard to Greg Davis, he seemed to find it a bit amusing and suggested we ask Ton Kollenborn. Tom poopooed the idea immediately. Mainly because when Jesse went off that cliff, Jim was going through the worst part of his cancer.

............. and one other thing; a different member of SAR and I were talking about deaths in the mountains and getting shot at. When the discussion turned to Jesse Capen, I asked her about the two sleeping bags in his tent. She told me that since Jesse was a big boy, his mother had sewn two sleeping bags together so he could fit in them. Those were the only two sleeping bags found in the tent.

That is an interesting story, and an interesting source too.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

You know I luvya and all, but does every one of your posts need to be about Matthew? I think every single person knows exactly what you mean every time you reference him. What I posted had nothing to do with Matthew. In the years I have been at this, I have heard a lot of things from and about a LOT of people.

I wasn't ever going to mention this again (for reasons I hope everyone will understand), BUT it is a stellar example of how crazy crap gets out there;At this years Rendezvous, someone (who shall remain nameless) who is a long time member of SAR (Search And Rescue) told me that Kurt Painter said to him (SAR) that Jim Hatt told him (Painter) he(Hatt) had been the one that pushed Jesse Capen off that cliff on Tortilla. I knew Jim. We weren't swapping spit in the shower close, but I knew the man FAIRLY well. When I quietly mentioned what I had heard to Greg Davis, he seemed to find it a bit amusing and suggested we ask Ton Kollenborn. Tom poopooed the idea immediately. Mainly because when Jesse went off that cliff, Jim was going through the worst part of his cancer.

............. and one other thing; a different member of SAR and I were talking about deaths in the mountains and getting shot at. When the discussion turned to Jesse Capen, I asked her about the two sleeping bags in his tent. She told me that since Jesse was a big boy, his mother had sewn two sleeping bags together so he could fit in them. Those were the only two sleeping bags found in the tent.

When I mentioned getting shot at to "someone who shall also remain nameless" (you know who you are HAHAHA), he said he didn't believe anyone was shooting AT me. He posited that people are always shooting guns down in the flats along Peralta Road, and it was likely a stray bullet. I was around Peralta Trail on the SouthEast corner of Superstition climbing up in those little arroyos and rockfalls. I was not within sight of the flats. When I was talking to the lady SAR Member, she told me that about eight months before, they were searching for someone lost, and some old mountain rat took several shots at them. They knew who it was and littered his camp with notes saying they knew who he was, and he better stop his crap.

So, my friend, even the good folks in Search And Rescue get shot at in the Supers. If you wish to confirm my statement, her name was either Alex or Alexis. She also volunteers at Lost Dutchman State Park. She was also quite the looker (that is why I kept that conversation going so long. HAHAHA But her boyfriend is also in SAR (and was there as well). He was a very nice guy, and lucky too! Any woman that can do The Flatiron in 30 minutes (and is that attractive) is A'OK in my book!

Mike

Mike

Mike,

I can't help what every person "knows". That includes you. I only know what I know. The rest is guesswork based on qualified investigation and research.

I have been run down on this forum any number of time, often without my name being mentioned. I didn't see you jumping up with your superior intuition and ragging on those people. Don't know who you are "swapping spit with in the shower" and don't really care. I tried to be a friend to you, giving way more than I ever got. You had to make your own way, and that's fine with me.

Don't know if Jesse was pushed or simply fell into that crevice, not a clue. I have heard all of the rumors, and don't believe any of them. I have complete trust in a few men in the Dutch Hunting Community, and know who has been lying to me and who has and is stabbing me in the back. See if you can figure out who that person is. From what you have written, I doubt you know.

I have said very good things about Jim Hatt, as well as Matthew Roberts. That doesn't mean I have closed my eyes to the reality of either man. I have told a number of people here, that I hope Matthew returns after being banned. The man is really a fount of historical information and may be able to tell us a lot more about Walter Gassler. Unfortunately, mass deletions are the usual MO when he is "insulted".

IMHO, there ought to be a law.

"does every one of your posts need to be about Matthew?"

Really! Shows just how much you have paid attention in the last thirteen years.


Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo