WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[bigscoop]

The unnamed individual living with Morriss for an extended length of time was -------- Seth Ward.

Can that be documented? I hope so as it would help to rule some things out.

 

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[bigscoop]

So, what do we really know about Beale Sr. & Jr. and any possible properties in Virginia aside from the old estate? Both of them had to reside somewhere in the area, but where, exactly? I think we really need to discover this information.

 

[bigscoop]

I have admittingly "questionable" information in regards to the property where the deposits were made, suggesting that the land was secure and possibly even purchased beforehand, or possibly even after the deposits were made. I say "questionable" because the source isn't all that clear as to the exact details. So, I just don't know but it does seem apparent that this Virginia property was connected to Beale Sr. somehow.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

So, what do we really know about Beale Sr. & Jr. and any possible properties in Virginia aside from the old estate? Both of them had to reside somewhere in the area, but where, exactly? I think we really need to discover this information.

"Told" you ONCE before! The Beale Plantation! BLUE FOUNTAIN, east of Buchanan, VIRGINIA... at the foot of Purgatory Mountain, along the James River. There is a Beale Bridge; Looney's Ferry was used to "cross" the James "back in the old days"!

 

[bigscoop]

"Told" you ONCE before! The Beale Plantation! BLUE FOUNTAIN, east of Buchanan, VIRGINIA... at the foot of Purgatory Mountain, along the James River. There is a Beale Bridge; Looney's Ferry was used to "cross" the James "back in the old days"!

Ok. So we can document "for certain" that Sr. & Jr. both continued living at that plantation prior their going to New Orleans, and that there was no other property? We can document this for certain?

 

[bigscoop]

I still believe the Thomas Beale's in New Orleans is mixed up, at least the Thomas Beale that was over Beale's Rifles in the Battle of New Orleans. I do not believe he was either of the TJB's from Fincastle. There was only on military TJB at that time in history and he was from Bealesville, PA and died at Fort Armstrong in 1832 during the Blackhawk Wars.

And here resides some of the possible confusion; "Beale's Sharpshooters" and "Beale's volunteer New Orleans riflemen". The first Thomas Beale was from the PA, but the second Thomas Beale was from VA and then living in New Orleans. Same battle, same city, same general action, completely different Thomas Beale's.

 

[bigscoop]

TJB Sr. owned property on Main Street in Fincastle. He also owned the house that George Hancock lived in across the street from James Beverly Risque. When I get back to Fincastle I will look some of these deeds up. I will also look in Lynchburg and Campbell County Records.

Great! If you find something deeded to Sr. take and extra glance to see if it changed hands between 1817 - 1825, and who the new owner possibly was?

 

[bigscoop]

It is all confusing and someone needs to sort all of this out in New Orleans records.

Also this was the Thomas Beale on the Ship Smyrna on the Ohio River headed for New Orleans not the Thomas Beale from Fincastle.

Tat has most of this pretty well sorted out, but it's still somewhat confusing.

 

[tat2guy]

The group known as "beale's Sharp shooters" is from pa and the Beales rifles is from New Orleans. I've spent a bit of time in the land of confusion before seeing the differences.

HH Jay

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ok. So we can document "for certain" that Sr. & Jr. both continued living at that plantation prior their going to New Orleans, and that there was no other property? We can document this for certain?

That is correct... R & I done in Reference Section, Buchanan, VIRGINIA Library... Rt. 43 NORTH
(Main Street).

 

[tat2guy]

I have a feeling that Bigscoop and tat2guy are on to something but they are only looking up the wrong tree. I do not think it was a French Connection, I believe it has a Spanish Twist connection to the story. I will investigate further.

You would be correct. Unfortantly I can't say French or Spanish twists, just many twists on all sides. We'll eventually be able to put it all together.

The Beale and Risqué duel was when, 1809 or 1810? Has anyone looked at the newspapers for this? Who was the doctor who examined Risqué afterwards?

HH Jay

 

[bigscoop]

I have a feeling that Bigscoop and tat2guy are on to something but they are only looking up the wrong tree. I do not think it was a French Connection, I believe it has a Spanish Twist connection to the story. I will investigate further.

This could "very easily" have a Spanish twist to it. Possibly even a Mexican twist. Many of the people we've investigated had numerous ties to both the Spanish and the Mexicans so these element's haven't been completely ruled out. Like we said in the beginning, the circumstances are very complicated. There was "a lot" happening during the period.

 

[bigscoop]

"If" we are correct, which we we feel very strongly that we are based on everything we've researched, then there is one issue that still has me completely stumped. We know for sure that in 1829 - 30 a group of these people were in Richmond and that they were indeed concluding their business affairs and arranging their final preparations. Since Morriss never got the key it only stands to reason that everything was concluded as planned and that all of their business affairs ended in a satisfactory state. However, if this is the case then why is someone in Richmond in 1862 still looking for it? What is so puzzling to me is what could have possibly taken place from the date of the last deposit and the 1832 limit that could have caused these people to lose control of this wealth? This is what has me completely stumped.

The notion that these men didn't know where it was at simply dosen't make any sense, so did something take place that prevented them from getting at it, like the possible loss of the land it was on? This is why I am so curious about Beale's possible Virginia land holdings and what may have happened to them after his death. The only clue that a loss of property may have been the issue resides in the fact that one of these involved parties was in Richmond in 1862 looking to buy specific property in the targeted region, we just don't know what property was targeting? However, we do know that he failed to buy it.

 

[tat2guy]

Could it be that Thomas Beale Jr. was the only one that knew where the treasures were buried and he died in 1823 after giving the ciphered code papers to Robert Morriss to keep for ten years. Since TJB Jr. was young maybe he was planning on a long life and just maybe he died of malaria or at the hand of a foe.

If I remember correctly Thomas Beale jr died in an outbreak of yellow fever.

Franklin thanks for the info regarding the duel.

 

[bigscoop]

Could it be that Thomas Beale Jr. was the only one that knew where the treasures were buried and he died in 1823 after giving the ciphered code papers to Robert Morriss to keep for ten years. Since TJB Jr. was young maybe he was planning on a long life and just maybe he died of malaria or at the hand of a foe.

Don't know? The other side of this uncertain coin is that it is possible that in 1862 someone only, "thought it still remained", but this is somewhat doubtful considering the suspect, but it is possible. The unknown author sought Morriss out and arranged interviews after certain preliminaries had been agreed to. This was in 1862. We are also told in the beginning of the pamphlet that up until the pamphlet's publication the information had been confined to the author's immediate family and one trusted friend. We believe this family was indeed the Bonapartes and that the unknown author was more then likely, Jarome, his being in Richmond in 1862 conducting important business affairs and also looking to buy a targeted property in the suspected region. At this same time Napoleon III is in Mexico trying to secure that region to gain a back door "political position" so he can pressure the US. Jarome is in Richmond, CSA territory, and while he is there he is also looking for something of value that may, or may not have, remained? And here you have the basic summary of where we are at with all of it.

 

[tat2guy]

The man trying to purchase the property what faction did he represent French or Spanish. If he was in Richmond then he was trying to purchase property in the Richmond area not the Bedford Area because then he would have had to go to Bedford City for Bedford County or Rustburg for Campbell County.

He repressed the French. He traveled between Bedford cty and Richmond. But where was he looking is the burning question. It's been documented and we need to find it again.

 

[bigscoop]

The man trying to purchase the property what faction did he represent French or Spanish. If he was in Richmond then he was trying to purchase property in the Richmond area not the Bedford Area because then he would have had to go to Bedford City for Bedford County or Rustburg for Campbell County.

If I remember the details correctly, there were two representatives for Jerome who were actually doing the physical property search/inquiry because Jerome didn't want to draw too much attention upon himself. But Jay is correct, indeed French, indeed a Bonaparte, and he did travel the area in person as well.

PS: The Bedford/Lynchburg region was not unknown to these people. In fact, all of the men who were in Richmond in 1829/30 were familier with the region and it's surroundings.

 

[tat2guy]

Please note while researching Jerome. There are 3 of them. The dates get confused. Jerome brother of napolean dies about 1860 and is married to Elizabeth Patterson. Jerome napolean sr dies in 1870 and is married to Susan may Williams. Daughter of Samuel may Williams. Jerome napolean jr dies in the 1890's I think. The one to watch is Jerome napolean sr.

 

[ECS]

There appears to be at least 3 different theories or opinions concerning the BEALE PAPERS on this thread.
1.It is true as written.
2.It is a western dime novel with a treasure hunt included,based on a mixture of other journals and events.
3.It is a coverup for a Bonaparte/French treasure.
Are any of these plausible answers?
It seems the more one researches,the more possible connections to events and people occur-BUT,do these connections lead one back to the BEALE PAPERS?
"There is nothing more deceptive than obvious fact"
"When you have eliminated all which is impossible,then whatever remains,however improbable,must be the truth"
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle/Sherlock Holmes

 

[tat2guy]

Here's a big but. The story states 4 miles from Buford's. I don't think we should rule out that it could be another Buford property.