Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO!

[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

These look like they may be faked, but here's some more. Click on 'link' at the end of the paragraph under the picture. The King Arthur is quite interesting. http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/?p=7247

 

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[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Woohoo! I was the 100th poster!

 

[TreasureTales]

All those Egyptian style artifacts from the mounds are interesting for many reasons. I noticed that besides many of the human forms having beards, they didn't resemble Native Americans in any way. Did the Egyptians wear beards? Or were the carvers of those artifacts combining Egyptians with Northern Europeans in their depictions?

 

[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

All those Egyptian style artifacts from the mounds are interesting for many reasons. I noticed that besides many of the human forms having beards, they didn't resemble Native Americans in any way. Did the Egyptians wear beards? Or were the carvers of those artifacts combining Egyptians with Northern Europeans in their depictions?

Egyptians didn't, Phonecians/Scandinavians/Europeans did.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Content deleted due to new copyright rules at Treasurenet, apologies if this offends anyone.

Oroblanco

 

[tinpan]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Hello Nick in NEPA,

(I used to live in NEPA too, a great place to find interesting things with metal detectors!  Some will not "fit" with those history books too!)

Pharaoh Necco (also spelled Necho, Neco etc) did dispatch a fleet of ships to circumnavigate Africa, as described by Herodotus - but note to whom the Pharaoh turned when he wished to do naval exploration - Phoenicians!  He hired a fleet of Phoenician ships and Phoenician crews to execute his plan, and they were successful.  The voyage took up the better part of three years, with the crews putting ashore twice to plant and harvest a crop of grain to supply their food needs, so the voyage likely took longer than was necessary if the time were not used in growing crops.  Herodotus adds that "the next people to make a similar report were the Carthaginians" as they were quick to try to duplicate the naval feats of their Phoenician fore-fathers. 

We also have to wonder, where Necco got this idea?  It seems only logical that the notion did not simply pop into his head out of the sky, but that someone had passed on this knowledge that Africa was indeed, "washed on all sides by the sea".  So we have the implication that someone was sailing around Africa before the Egyptians dispatched a fleet of Phoenician ships and crews....

One of the stories from the Old Testament that has led to a lot of arguments is the tale of King Solomon and his fleet that sailed to Ophir and Tarshish.  He had a "navy" of ships built in the port of Ezion-geber on the Red Sea, to use in this trade.  We know that the voyages took three years to accomplish!  Where could Solomon's ships have been sailing, that would require three years?  Let's see, where have we heard that figure before, a voyage of three years with sailing ships...Ferdinand Magellan and Sir Francis Drake both required almost exactly three years to circumnavigate the world!  Could Solomon's ships have been sailing right around the world? 

The ancient Hebrews are not known as accomplished seamen and navigators, but they had a close ally in Tyre, which was at the time (around 950 BC) the most powerful Phoenician city-state with a number of overseas colonies.  Solomon asked his friend and ally Hiram to help build and man a fleet of ships to operate out of the Red Sea, which would be a great boon to both nations so Hiram outfitted a "navy" for Solomon of twelve ships.  We would not likely call twelve ships a "navy" today, but remember the impressive voyage to Punt by Queen Hatshepsut of Egypt was only five relatively small boats of thirty rowers each, so a fleet of twelve could carry a large cargo of gold and silver which was the primary trade items brought home. 

Then we have to ask, where was Tarshish and Ophir (and Punt for that matter)?  Tarshish (also spelled Tharshish) was explained by the ancient Hebrew historian Josephus as simply Tarsus in Cilicia (Asia Minor) - however this cannot be true, since Tarsus was not even a collection of mud huts in 950 BC, not being founded for a couple hundred more years!  A more logical site is that of ancient Tartessus as known to the Greeks, which was on the SW Atlantic coast of Spain.  In the book of Jonah we learn that it is possible to sail WEST to Tarshish from the port of Joppa in Israel, or by sailing EAST from Ezion-geber.  If you look at a map of the world, this simply doesn't make sense - to sail from a Red Sea port to reach the Atlantic coast of Spain, when it is possible to sail from Joppa in a much shorter voyage.  Yet this was a part of a long sea voyage that also called at other foreign ports, obviously to trade for spices, incense, precious metals, etc. 

So many sites have been proposed as the true location of Ophir that it is not possible to cover all of them, but the place identified by the Spanish as well as explorer Gene Savoy is Peru!  Is there any evidence to support this idea?  Well the only place in Israel where any artifact was ever found with the name "Ophir" on it (and glyph matching those found by Savoy in Peru) was near Joppa! 

We also know that after Solomon's death, the Hebrews lost control of Ezion-geber (they recaptured it several times however) so the convenient Red Sea port was not open to their ships and the long-distance voyages ended.  Pharaoh Necco lived almost three centuries after Solomon, so it is not a great leap of logic to think that the Egyptians might have gotten knowledge that Africa could be sailed around through the Phoenicians, after all that is who they hired to do the exploration.

This is not to say that the Egyptians did not make some long sea voyages of their own, but at an earlier time and mainly in the Red Sea-Indian Ocean, where they made secret voyages to their 'secret land' of Punt.  The true location of Punt has been the object of a great many heated debates as well, with some historians dismissing Punt entirely as a fantasy.  However there is a place that does "fit" with the clues to be the "mythical" land of Punt- Sumatra!  This mysterious island was known to the Greeks as "Panchaea" and was reached by sailing from Ethiopia direct across the Indian Ocean!  The Egyptians did not voyage to Punt every year, and kept the location a state secret; eventually the knowledge of how to reach Punt/Panchaea was lost.  Recent finds in Egypt along the Red Sea coast of ancient Egyptian ships, all put up in dry-dock storage as if ready for the next use, support the idea that Punt was a land that required sailing a long distance by sea - certainly not some place in Africa that could more easily and quickly be reached overland or by sailing up the Nile river.  The finding of cloves in ancient Egyptian tombs is fair proof that SOMEONE was sailing to the Molluccas in SE Asia more than four thousand years ago to be providing this spice.  If anyone is interested in tracking own the explorations of the Egyptians, I suggest reading the records of their voyages to Punt, Tel Netjer (which appears to be the Egyptian name for Australia, the name means "land of the God") and Kenti Amenti (which appears to be in southern Africa). 

We could return to the subject of Solomon, and wonder where he got the idea to be putting ships in to the Red Sea?  In extra-biblical sources we learn that the knowledge came from his father, king David, who conquered Edom (where Ezion-geber was built, near Eloth) and built several ships that he launched from Eloth.  According to these sources, David gained possession of some distant gold mines far across the seas - which explains why Solomon, his son, expanded the port of Ezion-geber and set up copper smelteries etc to operate from there.  (Note too that among many Amerindian tribes, copper was held as more valuable than gold, as reported by a number of early explorers.  Coincidence?)  Then remember that both king David and Solomon had a very good relationship with Egypt, Solomon even marrying the daughter of pharaoh.  Could such secrets as navigational secrets have been passed?

Thank you again, I hope you all have a great day.

Oroblanco

Hi Oroblanco, Curious to know where you get your historical facts from because they are very WRONG.

"The Phoenicain's didn,t circumnavigate Africa"

Pharaoh Necko 11 or Nekau 11[26th Dynasty]ruled Egypt from 610 b.c to 595 b.c. Necko 11 tried to build the Canal called the Wadi Tumilat.If he had completed the canal , Africa would have been indeed surrounded by water.

Wadi Tumilat Canal wasn,t completed by Necko 11 due to the huge lose of life.Official records show only 12,000 Egyptians worked on the Canal .The account by Herodatus in text  [ 4.42 ] refers the lose of life at more than 100,000. You have used Herdadtus text to give your story credit.These texts were written more than 50 years after the fact.It is known fact the Greeks and the Egyptians were allies after the fact and i would say there was politics involved in the accounts of these ancient texts.The greeks often used general terms like Pheonician which in fact relates to a number of ancient old cultures.The First Pheonician Empire was not in North Africa or at that time.Only Pheonician Colonies in North africa survived but they had Greek and Egyptian infleuence.

The Wadi Tumilat canal was completed by Darius the Great some 100 years latter.He was neither Egytpian or Pheonician. , So did your Pheonician Fleet  Sail across land or what. .

         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necho

The first Pheonicain Empire was infact in Lebanon nearly 2000 years before Necko 11

         http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Lebanon
You use alot of the texts written by Herodatus so where is the Lost City of Atlantis.Got no answers at all.    That link will take a far while to read,enjoy                                   tinpan

              

 

[kenb]

Great read on Ogam script in northeast America. http://planetvermont.com/pvq/v9n2/megaliths.html

kenb

 

[LadyDigger]

Okay...I found the proof who is believed to have discovered America and it wasn't Columbus...

 

[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Hello Nick in NEPA,

(I used to live in NEPA too, a great place to find interesting things with metal detectors! Some will not "fit" with those history books too!)

What stuff around here wouldn't fit in with the history books?

 

[fossis]

Glad to read more from Oroblanco, I was off for

A few days myself,(computer problem).

Fossis.............

 

[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

All those Egyptian style artifacts from the mounds are interesting for many reasons. I noticed that besides many of the human forms having beards, they didn't resemble Native Americans in any way. Did the Egyptians wear beards? Or were the carvers of those artifacts combining Egyptians with Northern Europeans in their depictions?

The Egyptians wore false beards that were pointy. Also their art shows Semitic visitors who have full beards.

 

[fossis]

After a five or six day forced absense, (computer)
I return to find Nick has bumped off Pather, , Oroblanco has returned guns blazing, & good ole Tin pan is reading (Alice in---Wonderland), so good to be back in the fray!!!!

Fossis...............

 

[TreasureTales]

After a five or six day forced absense, (computer)
I return to find Nick has bumped off Pather, , Oroblanco has returned guns blazing, & good ole Tin pan is reading (Alice in---Wonderland), so good to be back in the fray!!!!

Fossis...............

LOL. Missed you, Fossis, but assumed you were out hunting for artifacts. We could use a sign up sheet where people post why they will be absent for awhile (providing, of course, that they are able to access the website) and when they expect to return to the forum. Hmmm, might suggest that to Marc. Anyhow, glad you're back!

 

[tinpan]

After a five or six day forced absense, (computer)
I return to find Nick has bumped off Pather, , Oroblanco has returned guns blazing, & good ole Tin pan is reading (Alice in---Wonderland), so good to be back in the fray!!!!

Fossis...............

And who is old, lol seems ya cannot even get that right.Snicker Snicker
No point having guns blazing when the ship is sinking.

tinpan

 

[aleman]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

There are many Indian words with European and Scandinavian origins. There were Roman coins in Venezuela in a jar on the beach. There is a Roman wreck WITH amphorae in Venezuela. There is a huge list of evidence that debunks the Columbus fairy tale.

I also know about some Roman Coins in Central america. But it didnt get investigated by the government because of history changing reasons.

aleman

 

[aleman]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Thor Hyerdal tried to proof it. Its a good story anyways. "The Ra expedition"

 

[fossis]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Thor Hyerdal tried to proof it. Its a good story anyways. "The Ra expedition"

Read the story, quite intresting!!!!

Fossis...........

 

[Nick in NEPA]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Thor Hyerdal tried to proof it. Its a good story anyways. "The Ra expedition"

Read the story, quite intresting!!!!

Fossis...........

It's a great example of how one archaeologist can prove the other 999,999 wrong.

 

[BLACKFOOT]

I live a few miles from one of the VIKING SITES here in OKLAHOMA. there is supposed to be a date on it way before C.Columbus.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Was Columbus the First Explorer to Visit the Americas? The Evidence Says NO

Content deleted due to new copyright rules at Treasurenet, apologies if this offends anyone.

Oroblanco