WAS THE CANDLE WORTH THE GAME?

[ECS]

... A grand nephew of Robert Morris that died at his grandmother's house has nothing to do with the Beale Treasure? What is your problem?...

There does seem to be a misunderstanding of what I mean by "extraneous superficial information", so I will attempt to clarify.

It CAN be proven that the real Robert Morris died at Anzoletta Saunders home through research., and Clarence Saunders, founder of Piggly Wiggly, was her grandson.

What CAN NOT be proven by research is that Robert Morriss the character in the Beale Papers, during his stay, ever revealed to the "unknown author" the Beale perilous adventure treasure story- that is force fitting an actual fact in an attempt to prove Beale story with a speculation fallacy- Morris died at Saunders home is true, therefore Morriss revealing the Beale story to the "unknown author" is true.
As I have mentioned many times that events in Ward's extended family are peppered throughout the Beale narrative text, this is just another example of that literary device, AND is also NOT TO BE CONSIDERED PROOF that the Beale story is real.

Adding what would be considered as an interesting footnote- Clarence Saunders was the grandson of Anzoletta Saunders- adds no proof or evidence that can confirm or collaborate any portion of the Beale Papers story, and is "extraneous superficial information" and really not relevant to the discussion.
Neither does finding the location of James Beverly Risque's plantation prove the Beale story to be true, even though Risqué did fight a duel with Thomas Beale, that does not prove he was the "Thomas J Beale" character of Ward's published 1885 dime novel pamphlet.

 

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[franklin]

ECS, Since we can never find any means of proving the story by the Beale Papers or the Job Print Pamphlet which contains the papers, we have to search else where for the information that could tell us that Robert Morris actually passed this information to the author. Robert Morris' obituary tells us that he died at the home of his niece, Mrs. David Saunders. If Robert Morris passed this information to the author then this is where we have to search to find out if in-fact he did pass this information to someone else and to whom. So the location of where the David Saunders Jr.'s house is very important to find. Sorry you can not find it. Then if you do not look for it then you can never find it.

Also the James Beverly Risque Plantation plays an important role in the story of the Beale Papers also. Not because Risque and Thomas Beale had a duel and Risque was shot by Thomas Beale but because James Beverly Ward was the grandson of James Beverly Risque and the plantation of James Beverly Risque is where James Beverly Ward lived when he published and copyrighted the "Beale Papers."

We have to know how close these two locations were to each other and if any author got the papers from Robert Morris and later passed them on to James Beverly Ward, this is a very important area to search to see if there is any written records of this happening.

Still if you do not think any of this has anything to do with solving the mystery of the Beale Papers, then you do not want the mystery solved, you just want to keep posting that all of this has nothing to do with the 1885 Beale Papers. You will never solve anything.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, the point you seem to miss is that knowing where James Beverly Risqué and James Beverly Ward lived does not prove in anyway the Beale adventure ever occurred, or that the Thomas J Beale character ever existed outside of the pamphlet story.
Now actual locations of places and names were used in the development of the Beale story as a literary device building up to the "letters" revealing the treasure story, but according to the story, this "unknown author" was the only person to see these letters and the iron box, as he presented Ward( not mentioned by name in the story, neither was Anzoletta Saunders) as his chosen "agent" a finished manuscript for publication.

Much of the storyline can be attributed to actual events of members of the Risqué/Ward extended family bloodline that were adapted to create the Beale storyline, but when one attempts to research this "Thomas J Beale" and the perilous adventure treasure story, the research is always the speculation supposition of could be, maybe derived from the events of others of that time period-never any direct definitive hard evidence than even in the slightest can confirm that the pamphlets "Thomas J Beale" character ever existed outside of the imagination of this alleged "unknown author".
While the names of actual persons were used in support the believability of the Beale character, researching their lives, where they lived, etc, does not prove the story true or "solve the mystery", but an futile exercise of wishfully hoping that the Beale tale is true and the fabulous treasure vault exists.

...But the TOTAL lack of even a minute piece of evidence or proof that can confirm anything contain in the action and events of the Beale story narrative outside of the 1885 job print pamphlet tacitly proves that there was really never a mystery to solve- THE BEALE PAPERS was a period dime novel adventure treasure story with play along ciphers included as a parlor entertainment.

 

[franklin]

How are you going to find any information as to the truth of the Beale Papers if we do not research into the people and places of where the story originated? There is no answer in the Pamphlet called the Beale Papers so we have to go to the source of the story. The point of you sticking to the Beale Papers will always have the same answer and the same replay but I am trying to confirm what you are saying or deny what you are saying by finding the information we need to do either.

 

[ECS]

... I am trying to confirm what you are saying or deny what you are saying by finding the information we need to do either.

After your 50 years of research and others years of research including mine, it becomes very obvious due to the total lack of any outside collaborating evidence, the Beale Papers has been confirmed as a period fictional adventure dime novel.

Have you ever found any real solid evidence in all your years of research that can prove that the Beale Papers is not a work of fiction sprung from the imagination of the alleged "unknown author" using the names of real people and locations as literary device giving the narrative text a setting of plausibility?

 

[franklin]

No, but I also have not found any information saying that the story was published for money. I have not found where family members told James Beverly Ward to stop publishing his book. You say you found this information------------where is this information? If we had your information then we could all stop searching. You do not have the information only speculation.

 

[ECS]

We have had this discussion many times before concerning Vincent A Witcher contacting Rowland D Buford about his ancestors name being used in the dime novel pamphlet, and Buford talking to Ward about that.
There was a link on one of my treads that got "locked" due to arguing and bickering, and you also provided a link to an angelfire site that mentioned that the Buford children were responsible for having Ward remove the Beale Papers from sale.

 

[ECS]

... I also have not found any information saying that the story was published for money...

If not sold for money, or for the purpose of making money, why sell it for 50 cents, a hefty price in 1885 Lynchburg?

 

[ECS]

... Forget the Beale Papers you are hung up on them.
There is other research trying to verify the Beale Papers. We look at the Beale Papers we will never get anything done about solving this mystery...

One can not "forget the Beale Papers" as it is the ONLY source of this fabulous perilous adventure treasure story, no collaborating evidence outside of the pamphlet to support the Beale adventure, his stay with Morriss and at Buford's, or Robert Morriss passing the tale on to an alleged "unknown author".

There are ONLY three references in the Beale Papers that can be verified, and placed as believable bait to encourage sales:
The home where Sarah Mitchell Morris died
The home where Robert Morris died (neither of these residences owners are mentioned by name)
"On old and valued friend"- Max Guggenheimer (who had copies of the dime novel pamphlet at his store for sale)

 

[81618]

After your 50 years of research and others years of research including mine, it becomes very obvious due to the total lack of any outside collaborating evidence, the Beale Papers has been confirmed as a period fictional adventure dime novel.

Have you ever found any real solid evidence in all your years of research that can prove that the Beale Papers is not a work of fiction sprung from the imagination of the alleged "unknown author" using the names of real people and locations as literary device giving the narrative text a setting of plausibility?

Concerning the question in red: I know someone who has. Does a whitewashed wooden fence, because it is whitewashed, become less a wooden fence due to the whitewash? Beale Papers is like a whitewashed fence; on its face it is whitewash, underneath it is a map.

 

[ECS]

Concerning the question in red: I know someone who has...

Has or has claimed to have as others before?
What proof have you seen that convinced you to come on this site as a new member and make that statement?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

LOL! B/C he can...?

 

[ECS]

Well, Rebel and Franklin, we have all heard this same claim, time and time again.
What are the chances that this "map" leads to a site that one is unable or allowed to dig, or to a large hole with a white picket sign with the message "KILLROY WAS HERE".
...or one of the several standard excuses employed when one is cornered by that question of further explanation, or those really feared words, proof, evidence, documentation.

 

[franklin]

"KILLROY WAS HERE".

Now we know who got the gold----Clint Eastwood---Kelly's Heroes.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Nah... it is KILLJOY! AND! Curly MAY have It, for all the "City-slickers"!

 

[ECS]

...

There are ONLY three references in the Beale Papers that can be verified, and placed as believable bait to encourage sales:
The home where Sarah Mitchell Morris died
The home where Robert Morris died (neither of these residences owners are mentioned by name)
"On old and valued friend"- Max Guggenheimer (who had copies of the dime novel pamphlet at his store for sale)

The three references listed above continue make some believe that the Beale perilous adventure treasure to be true, while reality proves there is no collaborating evidence of this perilous adventure treasure story outside of the 1885 Beale Papers.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, I am of the OPINION, that the "old & valued friend" was Newton Hyde Hazlewood; so did Peter Viemeister... Chapter 19 - TRUSTED FRIEND, pg. 150-156 of THE BEALE TREASURE: NEW History of a MYSTERY. Have YOU read it...?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NHH was the "source" of the "Beale" Ciphers (HART PAPERS), a REBEL in the CONFEDERATE WAR (like FRANK JAMES), had a FULL set of the works/books of SHAKESPEARE (also like FRANK JAMES). NHH lived in Roanoke, Va. & then bought some land, building a house & is buried near his home in MONTVALE, Va. near BUFORD'S STATION/DEPOT (RR tracks). It is along Rt. 460 on the EAST side of Montvale, near the tree-line. NOTHING is indicating that it was "CSA Max"; just YOUR assumption, HEH!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

ALSO... (THIS IS FUN!); PONDER on NHH's middle name, HYDE for HIDE. Ba HA HA!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Let's DECODE "Newton Hyde Hazlewood", shall we...? Heh...