What do I do now? ...Opinions... TH Etiquette

[ivan salis]

if you know the landowner and they are willing to let you detect it --be thankful and do so ..once you find "proof positive" that the site is indeed the mission site you can tell the owner ( the least you can do) --then its up to the landowner to decide what to do --many landowners do not want the state archie types meddling upon their land ( having a historical spot on their land --could drop its value as it might not be allowed to be "developed" in the future should the land owner want to sell it) --the land owner might not want you to say squat to anyone else for fear of looters sneaking onto his land as well ... he might allow you to still hunt the spot provided you keep your trap shut ...loose lips sink ships....

 

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[ARC]

De Francesco Spanish mission ? De Francesco ?

You mean "a Spanish mission"... not "De Francesco".

IF you are in Starke you may be on a Spanish Camp... not a "mission" IMO.

What makes you think it is Spanish to begin with... not trying to be smart arse... just curious to what led you to believe this.. ?

More to the story please.

 

[ivan salis]

View attachment beads.doc there are several Spanish missions --San Francisco de........ fill in the blank --- ( saint francis of -- the Franciscan order set them up ) ........ missions in Florida ---potano (near Gainesville ) Oconi , ect ,ect

the exact locations of several are "unknown" but their general area is known in many cases

most of the north florida missions were wiped out by the English and their allied indains in the early 1700's when they were at war with spain ...

 

[ARC]

 

[ARC]

 

[BARKER]

Hi; Another thing Skippy hit on. If you start yelling SITE, SITE, SITE. The Archies are going to yell THIEF, THIEF, THIEF.!!! Think about it. They will NOT give you ANY credit for your find eiher. They may even start yelling COURT, COURT, COURT.!!! THAT is the truth. PEACE:RONB

 

[sonofdust]

If I was the land owner and knew you posted on the internet before consulting me of your hunch, I'd feed your butt to the dogs.

 

[Blak bart]

Shhhhh ! Use your permission and go dig !!

 

[villagenut]

If you really think you are on to something Good as you claim....then do some minimally evasive shovel tests and use a sifter and keep good notes and photographs. It is important to keep sealed artifact levels undisturbed.Then if your findings are conclusive, gather some research on the site itself.....and contact persons who can do justice to the historicity of the site...archaeologists from the University. Many will not agree with me on that point, but really it's a matter of preserving that history for generations to come. Nothing we dig gets recorded in the Florida Master File, but if we have a good rapport with the archaeologists, then we can contribute to keeping Florida history in the records. If this were just a privy from 1850 or a plantation ruins then the answer may be different, most archaeologists wouldn't take a look anyway.First , you have to determine just what you are on to....and then ask, Is it something important enough to get others involved? Sometimes, it is not best to just fill our cases with artifacts...but to think of long lasting impacts of the recording process.Of course, just my opinion folks.

 

[ncFloridaBum]

Alright fellas, Thank you all for the input.
I am going to keep this one between myself and the land owner.
If I can validate my suspicions. I will post pics of my finds. Probably not pics of the site itself for fear of revealing the location, but of anything I find there.

 

[ivan salis]

like i said --the land owner might not want "outsiders" to know exactly what is upon "his land" as it could open a huge bag of trouble for him-- in many ways -- looters , archies and govt land restrictions on how he can use "his land" ..up to the govt claiming it from him ...this would clearly make him regret ever letting you set foot upon "his land"... so think carefully ..I can tell you for a fact that the state archies will not give you credit for finding a site ( it piss's them off and embrass's them when a "average joe" finds stuff that they didn't find..often they steal the glory of claiming a find for themselves when the info was basically handed to them by others ) ---I helped the state of Florida by IDing the exact group and time frame of a online civil war picture that was listed as "a union artillery camp in Jacksonville Fla between 1861 and 1865" -- there was a placard on one of the tents in the photo --once "blown up" --it read -- company B 1st us artillery--- aka as elders horse artillery which took part in the battle of Olustee , Fla --by checking the records --they landed feb 5th of 1864 in Jacksonville , then marched out on the 7th to Olusttee ==had battle on the 20th of feb --then return to Jacksonville on feb 22nd they left Jacksonville about 2 months later --so most likely the photo was taken after the battle upon their return to Jacksonville feb 22 to their departure time 2 months later on -- I passed on all this "info" to the state--I was given "0" credit and in some places the info has not been used or corrected --it has in some--funny thing is the state archies had the info sitting right in front of them the entire time on the photo had anyone cared to look at it closely

I spend a lot of time and effort doing research --that's the how and why of why I can find out info and find stuff --that others can not

yes I have some civil war artifacts from the elders camp site (found from using known civil war era IDible Jacksonville Fla buildings in the photo ) * it was being used as a "grassy parking lot" for a school before it was bought up and is now "private land" soon to be made into a new medical building ..the site was a blighted inner city bit of land full of junk --mixed in with the artifacts ...after they screwed me on the photo --I told the state archies zero about the camp site and with it being a trashy spot the archies would have cared less about it anyways..

 

[ncFloridaBum]

like i said --the land owner might not want "outsiders" to know exactly what is upon "his land" as it could open a huge bag of trouble for him-- in many ways -- looters , archies and govt land restrictions on how he can use "his land" ..up to the govt claiming it from him ...this would clearly make him regret ever letting you set foot upon "his land"... so think carefully ..I can tell you for a fact that the state archies will not give you credit for finding a site ( it piss's them off and embrass's them when a "average joe" finds stuff that they didn't find..often they steal the glory of claiming a find for themselves when the info was basically handed to them by others ) ---I helped the state of Florida by IDing the exact group and time frame of a online civil war picture that was listed as "a union artillery camp in Jacksonville Fla between 1861 and 1865" -- there was a placard on one of the tents in the photo --once "blown up" --it read -- company B 1st us artillery--- aka as elders horse artillery which took part in the battle of Olustee , Fla --by checking the records --they landed feb 5th of 1864 in Jacksonville , then marched out on the 7th to Olusttee ==had battle on the 20th of feb --then return to Jacksonville on feb 22nd they left Jacksonville about 2 months later --so most likely the photo was taken after the battle upon their return to Jacksonville feb 22 to their departure time 2 months later on -- I passed on all this "info" to the state--I was given "0" credit and in some places the info has not been used or corrected --it has in some--funny thing is the state archies had the info sitting right in front of them the entire time on the photo had anyone cared to look at it closely

I spend a lot of time and effort doing research --that's the how and why of why I can find out info and find stuff --that others can not

yes I have some civil war artifacts from the elders camp site (found from using known civil war era IDible Jacksonville Fla buildings in the photo ) * it was being used as a "grassy parking lot" for a school before it was bought up and is now "private land" soon to be made into a new medical building ..the site was a blighted inner city bit of land full of junk --mixed in with the artifacts ...after they screwed me on the photo --I told the state archies zero about the camp site and with it being a trashy spot the archies would have cared less about it anyways..

Sounds like they let ego get the best of them. I've been guilty of that too. I try not to tho.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I stand my comments in # 5. If treasure hunters do not have written contracts with the owner, then the owner can take all the treasures. You do not have to contact any university before and or after you find treasures.

There's a glaring premise in all of this: That the md'r is going to "find a treasure". As if that's imminent. If that is a "given" before the start of conversation, then by all means, bring in the lawyers ! But since when is that a premise ? I stand by my comments: The quickest way to end permission, is to put contracts in front of total strangers to sign.

As for someone taking all the stuff you find, that too is a "since when?" statement. SURE SOMEONE CAN BE A STINGY MEANIE. You might get mugged tomorrow walking down the street afterall. But why this starting premise that this "horrible property owners" are everywhere ? I've even found gold coins on people's property before, and have not had them grabbed out of my hand EVEN when offering them to the property owner. Sure that was a risk I took, but I find most people to be decent with kind-natured splits, rather than greedily taking every last memorial cent I find.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I suspect he'll laugh and thank me for the offer, then tell me I can keep what I find....

what ? Certainly not. He'll reach into your apron and take every last object ! Hurry ! Get a contract, lawyers, etc....

Just kidding. Your assessment is correct. That is my experience in 40 yrs. of this. Granted, I haven't found a "treasure" yet, but .... even/if when I do, I'd rather have that opportunity and risk , rather that shut myself out of hunt locations by putting contracts in front of people to sign.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Have I got this straight? You've located a major find on some guys land that was cool enough to give you permission to search "his land". Wouldn't you think it'd be cool to sit down with him over a brew or cup of coffee and lay it out for him and have enough respect to ask what he'd like to be done on "His land"? Considering the grief it's going to cause him with all the gubermint entities rushing in to claim the site. We all know the archies are going to close the area down for god knows how long. Then if they eminent domain it to make it a monument or park, there goes the a sizeable piece if not all of "his land". Sure! it'd be great to listed as the or one of the discoverers, but what about the respect for the land owner?

The premise in everything you're saying if flawed. Since when can't a person have something historic on their land ? People have and own historic sites and artifacts ALL THE TIME, and don't have their land somehow confiscated by the government. And a whole host of land-owners would find it very "respectful" to have someone come hunt their land. Why all the implications that aren't holding water ?

I have hunted sites here in CA, on private land, with permission from property owners, that would rival the CA missions in historicity. And found items worthy of museums . Even gold coins. And .... lo & behold, the owner and I are still friends, and no universities are swooping in to confiscate their land. Even to the extent of involving a 'connected' archie I know on the research (ie.: the finds and hunt were "no secret"). So where are you getting all these premises ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I definitely wouldn't want him to lose his land,.....

Please oh please oh please: Can anyone here on this forum cite ANY incident IN THE USA of someone "losing his land" for the discovery of a historic site on the land ? Perhaps in some 3rd world corrupt country, but .... can anyone cite such an incident of this happening here in the USA ? There are private property owners RIGHT NOW, as we speak, who have land that used to be forts, stage stops, mission sites, battle sites, etc... And last I heard, they are still farming them, living on them, and they are all still private property.

So how is this premise of "confiscation" even entering into the conversation ??

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hi; Another thing Skippy hit on. If you start yelling SITE, SITE, SITE. The Archies are going to yell THIEF, THIEF, THIEF.!!! ....

Ok, fine. WHO CARES ? There are some archies who will yell "Thief thief thief" when you or I (gasp) dig a buffalo nickel from the park or beach. Who cares ? WHAT DID YOU EXPECT A PURIST ARCHIE TO SAY ? They can go pound sand. The homeowner can do whatever the heck he wants with his land.

 

[ncFloridaBum]

The premise in everything you're saying if flawed. Since when can't a person have something historic on their land ? People have and own historic sites and artifacts ALL THE TIME, and don't have their land somehow confiscated by the government. And a whole host of land-owners would find it very "respectful" to have someone come hunt their land. Why all the implications that aren't holding water ?

I have hunted sites here in CA, on private land, with permission from property owners, that would rival the CA missions in historicity. And found items worthy of museums . Even gold coins. And .... lo & behold, the owner and I are still friends, and no universities are swooping in to confiscate their land. Even to the extent of involving a 'connected' archie I know on the research (ie.: the finds and hunt were "no secret"). So where are you getting all these premises ?

Tom, thank you for all the input. You sound like you've been around the block a time or two. I guess I'm making it a bigger deal in my mind than it actually is.

 

[kingskid1611]

As NIKE said Just do it....see if there is any worms worth digging.

 

[Honest Samuel]

what ? Certainly not. He'll reach into your apron and take every last object ! Hurry ! Get a contract, lawyers, etc....

Just kidding. Your assessment is correct. That is my experience in 40 yrs. of this. Granted, I haven't found a "treasure" yet, but .... even/if when I do, I'd rather have that opportunity and risk , rather that shut myself out of hunt locations by putting contracts in front of people to sign.

Maybe, land owners do not trust people that they do not know, pertaining to treasures that could be worth millions of dollars. You have your opinions and I have my.