What is most outrageous treasure hunting legend you have ever read?

[UncleMatt]

The most outrageous treasure tale I have come across is the tale about Treasure Mountain near Pagosa Springs, CO, where supposedly a huge number (hundreds) of Frenchmen mined tons of gold and then left it in deep shafts that were cased when they were attacked by indians. Unless I see some evidence, I call total bullshit on that tale!

 

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[releventchair]

Sadly many monuments have been destroyed. Here away from the ones out west some reputedly were ruined by priests because the natives who claimed they did not make them payed too much attention to them. So the story goes.
Too much later monuments used during cattle drives have been altered or removed. Indian mounds bulldozed and razed for progress sake..
Natural landmarks were used by most all early map makers. Less telling than man made ones they could be tweaked by adding your own monuments or markers once approached.
Add a Barry Fell translation to some markers and age really gets wild.

Who Built New England’s Megalithic Monuments?

http://www.rocksandrows.com/copper-trade-3.php

 

[deducer]

I have always said the if a monument was made by Jesuits, it would not be understood by the Spanish. In the 17th and 18th centuries, the people the Jesuits would most want to hide their wealth from (at least in Northern Nueva Vizcaya) would have been the Spanish. They would have left monuments that could only be understood by other Jesuits.

I have found this to be very true, and have witnessed a concrete representation of such a thing.

In such matters, the Jesuits used abstract designs extensively (abstract as in the ability to imagine a thing that is not there, or a thing that does not exist in reality). This would not have been easily understood by the secular Spanish.

Abstract thinking and design was a requirement of the Ratio Studiorum.

 

[UncleMatt]

So if many monuments were destroyed, how would you know about that exactly? From what source?

 

[deducer]

That's not to say the Jesuits aren't heavily involved in whatever the monumentation represents. I believe they are prime actors in the drama, whatever it proves to be - if it ever does. I also believe that the well-known "Jesuit treasure" lore (lost mines, hidden caches, etc., in Arizona) is primarily diversionary, created for a higher hidden purpose. These "legends" have apparently even mesmerized you, a pretty sharp knife in the drawer.

What makes you believe that these lores are "primarily diversionary"?

 

[releventchair]

So if many monuments were destroyed, how would you know about that exactly? From what source?

https://books.google.com/books?id=0...ge&q=michigan idols broken by priests&f=false

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2005/summer/mexico-2.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=ind...v&sa=X&ei=BVS1VNPIKOzIsQSXhYHgAQ&ved=0CB0QsAQ

http://www.blogoklahoma.us/place.aspx?id=613

You can research indian mounds and their destruction being commonplace.

 

[UncleMatt]

https://books.google.com/books?id=0...ge&q=michigan idols broken by priests&f=false

Exploring Oklahoma History / Monument Hill / Chisholm Trail Lookout Point

Well, the first link has text on a religious icon being broken by priests, not monuments on a secret trail. I'm not sure what the second link was supposed to illustrate. Please elaborate.

 

[sdcfia]

What makes you believe that these lores are "primarily diversionary"?

Stories, documents, carvings, etc. of questionable provenance centered around yet-to-be-verified Arizona mining ventures capable of amassing the fantastic hoards that the legends allege. Enough "information" to send the gullible scurrying into the hills for lifetimes of chasing their tails with no payback. Is it because the Jesuits were merely very clever at hiding stuff or because there is nothing there? If the jesuits were so clever, why have we heard so many details of their secret shenanigans? My money is on the idea that the Jesuits are far more clever than we think, and their secrets are indeed closely held while the gullible are chasing rainbows. Ever seen a really good stage magician perform? It's all about diversion.

 

[releventchair]

Well, the first link has text on a religious icon being broken by priests, not monuments on a secret trail. I'm not sure what the second link was supposed to illustrate. Please elaborate.

Why you got to be that way Matt? Read the damn articles first. Indians and whites molested markers is the point. An old game world wide,cairns removed ,moved,altered.
Secret trails would require no traffic or there would be a trail. Religious icon was what? I ain't handing you what you want on a plate if you want to argue. Look yourself as you are not willing to accept my answers to your queries as suitable. Destroyed markers and monuments, see if you can find evidence none were ever destroyed to prove me wrong. Find any documentation you would accept regarding mounds yet?

 

[deducer]

Stories, documents, carvings, etc. of questionable provenance centered around yet-to-be-verified Arizona mining ventures capable of amassing the fantastic hoards that the legends allege. Enough "information" to send the gullible scurrying into the hills for lifetimes of chasing their tails with no payback. Is it because the Jesuits were merely very clever at hiding stuff or because there is nothing there? If the jesuits were so clever, why have we heard so many details of their secret shenanigans? My money is on the idea that the Jesuits are far more clever than we think, and their secrets are indeed closely held while the gullible are chasing rainbows. Ever seen a really good stage magician perform? It's all about diversion.

Insofar as a typical old-school Jesuit would have had around 20 years of education prior to taking final vows; being very clever, or overtly intelligent was in fact, a standard.

Those who were not intelligent enough to make the cut were delegated to coadjutor status or "Jesuit brother."

From personal experience, I can tell you with complete confidence that it's not possible to overestimate those old-school Jesuits, and what they were capable of, intelligence-wise.

I might add that it is not just their being "very clever" but also their ability to really think outside of the box, that is a very major impediment to those seeking Jesuit treasures.

I have had hidden clues pointed out to me (as far Jesuit caches or treasures) which were of a nature I could not have envisioned, imagined or otherwise thought of, in a million years, if I were to hide a treasure and leave behind clues as to its whereabouts.

 

[sdcfia]

The most outrageous treasure tale I have come across is the tale about Treasure Mountain near Pagosa Springs, CO, where supposedly a huge number (hundreds) of Frenchmen mined tons of gold and then left it in deep shafts that were cased when they were attacked by indians. Unless I see some evidence, I call total bullshit on that tale!

Yes, on the surface that one is a whopper all right. It's another "legend", the provenance of which one wonders about. When did the story surface? Who first revealed it? Why was the existence of the alleged cache publicized? See a pattern here - one played out many times in many places? Secret massive cache of gold hidden by unnamed miners. If it's such a secret, why have we heard about it? We see these things all over the Southwest - I guess nobody can keep secrets, even when killed by Indians.

Various versions place Treasure Mountain in different locations - impossible to even think of pursuing without specific information, although some folks have spent years looking for tree blazes, etc. No luck so far.

Perhaps the message in that tale is simply that the French Jesuits were active in Southern Colorado. If a guy could locate the very first appearance of the story, maybe the details therein would make sense to someone who "spoke the language".

 

[sdcfia]

Insofar as a typical old-school Jesuit would have had around 20 years of education prior to taking final vows; being very clever, or overtly intelligent was in fact, a standard.

Those who were not intelligent enough to make the cut were delegated to coadjutor status or "Jesuit brother."

From personal experience, I can tell you with complete confidence that it's not possible to overestimate those old-school Jesuits, and what they were capable of, intelligence-wise.

I might add that it is not just their being "very clever" but also their ability to really think outside of the box, that is a very major impediment to those seeking Jesuit treasures.

I have had hidden clues pointed out to me (as far Jesuit caches or treasures) which were of a nature that I could never have imagined or thought of in a million years if I were to hide a treasure.

Great post, Deducer - one that I agree with 100%.

 

[releventchair]

Having poked around places Allouez was about 350 years before in Canada it is easy to agree a very intelligent mind would have been a prerequisite.
Some tough old boys just getting there and around; but mentally had to have been even tougher. From first accounts of ascension they were well aware of the clime, it in itself harsh.
The lost trail of legend going N.E. from Nipigon I only glanced towards. An ominous looking route.

 

[Mackaydon]

To answer the OP's question, I offer the search for the Fountain of Youth, that quest has been going on since noted in writings of the 5th C BC, and more recently by the Spanish explorer, Juan Ponce d Leon.
Don..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

kinda interested in it myself Mac..

 

[gollum]

So if many monuments were destroyed, how would you know about that exactly? From what source?

Matt,

I will give you a for instance right in your neck of the woods. In the online book "Lure of the Caballos", Joe Cummins writes about a man named Doc Perrick.

.........I went to Flagstaff a few days after Doc got himself stabbed to death. I wanted to see if I could recover a book of photographs that Doc supposedly kept as a diary of the Indian and Spanish Drawings he found and would destroy. It was common knowledge that when Doc found Indian or Spanish Signs, he would photograph them and dynamite the site to spoil anyone else's chances to find the treasures that Doc felt rightly belonged to him.

That is just one person that had been destroying anything he thought was a monument or sign. That happened with him over a period of about 50 years, throughout the Organ, San Andres, Caballo, and Fra Cristobal Mountains. A LOT OF LOST HISTORY THERE. I can site many of the same type of occurrences in The Superstition Mountains in Az regarding the Lost Dutchman.

SDCFIA,

Kenworthy put the information in his books that he got from his many archival sources. He paid a lot of money to get copies of many things over the years. He had the money to spend, and didn't mind throwing it around where he thought it might help him.

So, if Kenworthy got his information from a primary source, that such and such a sign or monument meant whatever, then that throws off your suggestion that those signs are much older. I don't doubt that there is treasure from sources much older than 99% of historians will admit to. I believe the Vikings played a big part in exploring Vinland from the Northeast, and a thousand years before them, I have a lot of circumstantial evidence (not all circumstantial) that the Phoenicians were all over the new world (from Michigan down to Central America).

Mike

 

[UncleMatt]

I remember that guy now Mike, thanks for jogging my memory!

 

[UncleMatt]

Now where can we find Doc Perrick's collection of monument photos....

 

[releventchair]

Well, the first link has text on a religious icon being broken by priests, not monuments on a secret trail. I'm not sure what the second link was supposed to illustrate. Please elaborate.

2nd link.

"It is worth noting that many of the difficulties encountered by the resurvey commissions were the result of deliberate human interference. Salazar and Emory had long ago documented the destruction of the monuments and stone mounds by marauding Indians. Continuing destruction also resulted when monuments were dismantled for use as building materials, or as an expression of antipathy toward the United States. But also to blame were the actions of ranchers and miners north of the border, who destroyed or moved markers in order to gain control over land and mineral resources."

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Deducer ,one correction,, "Still are""