What REALLY happened to the wealth of Knights Templar

[cactusjumper]

Jose,

Quite true, but as far as I know, the only evidence we have that the Templars ever loaned a dime to anyone, secured or unsecured, is.......

Take care,

Joe

 

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[VICTORIO]

THANK YOU MR JEFF OF PA.............

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Don't think anybody REALLY knows...

 

[Roadquest]

Dear group;
Actually, the amount of physical wealth which the Templars had accrued in the form of hard assests, ie, arrable farming land, castles, mansions, estates etc, was substantial. On paper, the Templars had accquired these assests in the form of donations and the wills of those deceased, but in reality I feel personally feel that a large percentage of these *donations* were in fact done so because the debtors had used hard property as security and then could not repay their loans to the Templars which in turn meant that the debtor would *bequeath* the physical assest in question to the Templar Order at the time of their death. The document bequeathing the said property would have been in the Templars care until the debtor died, then it would have been presented to the proper authorities and the property henceforth would fall under Templar control.

Please understand that I am NOT stating this is what happened, merely what POSSIBLY could have happened.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Lamar,

I believe you are very close to being correct on this.

Clayton

 

[cactusjumper]

Lamar,

"Actually, the amount of physical wealth which the Templars had accrued in the form of hard assests, ie, arrable farming land, castles, mansions, estates etc, was substantial. On paper, the Templars had accquired these assests in the form of donations and the wills of those deceased, but in reality I feel personally feel that a large percentage of these *donations* were in fact done so because the debtors had used hard property as security and then could not repay their loans to the Templars which in turn meant that the debtor would *bequeath* the physical assest in question to the Templar Order at the time of their death."

Is it possible that you have just stated the reason that King Philip, and eventually Pope Clement V confiscated all of the Knights Templar wealth? It was, after all, goings to the Templars instead of King Philip and the Church. Too much wealth equals greed and eventual theft. Both men ordered the torture and eventual burning at the stake of many of the Templars. Did they need those tortured confessions and executions to justify stealing everything that the Order possessed?

Can you explain why Pope Clement finally acquiesced to Philip's demands, and joined in on the persecution of the Templars?
Is there an explanation as to why Pope Clement had a complete change of heart towards the Templars and "on November 22, promulgated the bull Pastoralis preeminentae", which, in effect, ordered "all Christian sovereigns to arrest the Templars in their territories and to cause them to be tortured for confessions of heresy"?

Thank you in advance.

Your friend,

Joe

 

[Rebel - KGC]

PROBABLY has ALREADY been stated; OWNERSHIP of the KT "treasures" reverted back to ORIGINAL owners... SOME "treasure" MAY have gone to Scotland, Switzerland, America; Templar Fleets MAY have taken some
"booty" to America, and "bodies" (KT), who eventually married into the native American tribes. Look at "legends" of "gold", etc. in TRIBAL NATIONS, especially NE America (R.I., N.E., etc). THEN, you have NEWPORT TOWER in R.I.; KT sword down in TEXAS... LEGENDS of WHITE MEN WARRIORS (MAYBE Vikings). TEMPLARS who were SAILORS, PROBABLY became the PIRATES "of old", sailing in CORSAIRS, etc. IE, the "WEALTH" has been "spread around".

 

[Smithbrown]

Has anyone actually published a photograph of the Knights templar sword found in Texas?
Smithbrown

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Is there a published picture of YOU?

 

[Smithbrown]

I assume that is a NO then.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

NAW, PROBABLY down in TEXAS, ask THEM. AND! You KNOW what can happen, when you ASSUME... you COULD make an ASS of YOU & ME!

 

[Leones Corazon]

From what i have heard...and i have no factual account to back of what i have heard...
is that the Templars issued the depositee a chit in the form of a coin used as proof ie:
deposit box key...that you were the rightful owner of said deposit and in turn would use
that coin to make a withdrawl of your account. I have also seen on another forum a picture
of such a templar coin found in utah....a stretch yes....however as the templar grand masters
were being rounded up i also understand their fleet of ships used to transport commercial
goods slipped out of the harbor as well...so i guess one never knows.

I am reading "Templars In America" currently which places them in nova scotia and or the eastern
seaboard of the US....i guess i will see what facts pop out as i read further.

DW

 

[cactusjumper]

DW,

It's an interesting book, good read and well done. That being said, I would not bet the farm on its overall accuracy/"facts".

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Leones Corazon]

Hey Joe...long time mi amigo.

There are some good historical facts in the book.
Which is always interesting. Myself...unless i see it
in metal or stone in my beloved deserts...i tend to
take with a grain of salt....

DW

 

[cactusjumper]

DW,

That is the nature of a really good historical novel. The story is precisely placed in the middle of historical places and events. In my opinion, that was very well done here. I have a number of books that fall into that category.

Hope all is well in Colorado, and things are warming up.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Leones Corazon]

As with all written things....one must take with a grain of salt...and try to ferret the truth from the
bulk of the work as no one shows all their cards.

I have seen a few things in the desert that defies logic and or the known historicaly accepted time
frame so i dig here and there for clues t like the rest of us.

Been windy and cold here....lil bit of snow here and there as well...winters final hoorah i suppose.

DW

 

[erik12152003]

WHAT I just read some where in this post the world is round really darn i have been looking for the edge lol So back to the things at hand What really happened to the wealth 1) It is buried somewhere or 2) some one got it and made it into something and 3) I have no clue that's why I am here trying to find out lol. Well I will look somewhere else Have fun

 

[Roadquest]

Knights Templar hid the Shroud of Turin, says Vatican ( From The Times On Line )
The Knights Templar, a crusading order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy

Richard Owen in Rome
Medieval knights hid and secretly venerated The Holy Shroud of Turin for more than 100 years after the Crusades, the Vatican said yesterday in an announcement that appeared to solve the mystery of the relic’s missing years.

The Knights Templar, an order which was suppressed and disbanded for alleged heresy, took care of the linen cloth, which bears the image of a man with a beard, long hair and the wounds of crucifixion, according to Vatican researchers.

The Shroud, which is kept in the royal chapel of Turin Cathedral, has long been revered as the shroud in which Jesus was buried, although the image only appeared clearly in 1898 when a photographer developed a negative.

Barbara Frale, a researcher in the Vatican Secret Archives, said the Shroud had disappeared in the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade, and did not surface again until the middle of the fourteenth century. Writing in L'Osservatore Romano, the Vatican newspaper, Dr Frale said its fate in those years had always puzzled historians.

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However her study of the trial of the Knights Templar had brought to light a document in which Arnaut Sabbatier, a young Frenchman who entered the order in 1287, testified that as part of his initiation he was taken to “a secret place to which only the brothers of the Temple had access”. There he was shown “a long linen cloth on which was impressed the figure of a man” and instructed to venerate the image by kissing its feet three times.

Dr Frale said that among other alleged offences such as sodomy, the Knights Templar had been accused of worshipping idols, in particular a “bearded figure”. In reality however the object they had secretly venerated was the Shroud.

They had rescued it to ensure that it did not fall into the hands of heretical groups such as the Cathars, who claimed that Christ did not have a true human body, only the appearance of a man, and could therefore not have died on the Cross and been resurrected. She said her discovery vindicated a theory first put forward by the British historian Ian Wilson in 1978.

The Knights Templar were founded at the time of the First Crusade in the eleventh century to protect Christians making the pilgrimage to Jerusalem. The Order was endorsed by the Pope, but when Acre fell in 1291 and the Crusaders lost their hold on the Holy Land their support faded, amid growing envy of their fortune in property and banking.

Rumours about the order’s corrupt and arcane secret ceremonies claimed that novices had to deny Christ three times, spit on the cross, strip naked and kiss their superior on the buttocks, navel, and lips and submit to sodomy. King Philip IV of France, who coveted the order’s wealth and owed it money, arrested its leaders and put pressure on Pope Clement V to dissolve it.

Several knights, including the Grand Master, Jacques de Molay, were burned at the stake. Legends of the Templars’ secret rituals and lost treasures have long fascinated conspiracy theorists, and figure in The Da Vinci Code, which repeated the theory that the knights were entrusted with the Holy Grail.

In 2003 Dr Frale, the Vatican’s medieval specialist, unearthed the record of the trial of the Templars, also known as the Chinon Parchment, after realising that it had been wrongly catalogued. The parchment showed that Pope Clement V had accepted the Templars were guilty of “grave sins”, such as corruption and sexual immorality, but not of heresy.

Their initiation ceremony involved spitting on the Cross, but this was to brace them for having to do so if captured by Muslim forces, Dr Frale said. Last year she published for the first time the prayer the Knights Templar composed when “unjustly imprisoned”, in which they appealed to the Virgin Mary to persuade "our enemies” to abandon calumnies and lies and revert to truth and charity.

Radiocarbon dating tests on the Turin Shroud in 1988 indicated that it was a medieval fake. However this had been challenged on the grounds that the dated sample was taken from an area of the shroud mended after a fire in the Middle Ages and not a part of the original cloth.

After the sack of Constantinople it was next seen at Lirey in France in 1353, when it was displayed in a local church by descendants of Geoffroy de Charney, a Templar Knight burned at the stake with Jacques de Molay.

It was moved to various European cities until it was acquired by the Savoy dynasty in Turin in the sixteenth century. Holy See property since 1983, the Shroud was last publicly exhibited in 2000, and is due to go on show again next year.

The Vatican has not declared whether it is genuine or a forgery, leaving it to believers to decide. The late John Paul II said it was “an icon of the suffering of the innocent in every age.” The self proclaimed heirs of the Knights Templar have asked the Vatican to “restore the reputation” of the disgraced order and acknowledge that assets worth some £80 million were confiscated.

The Association of the Sovereign Order of the Temple of Christ, based in Spain, said that when the order was dissolved by Pope Clement V in 1307, more than 9,000 properties, farms and commercial ventures belonging to knights were seized by the Church. A British branch also claiming descent from the Knights Templar and based in Hertfordshire has called for a papal apology for the persecution of the order

Clayton HKt.B

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you for posting that very interesting article Roadquest! Perhaps we will learn the full story one day, if we live long enough?
Oroblanco

 

[Roadquest]

Would any one like to talk about What REALLY happen to the wealth of Knights Templar?

Clayton

 

[Oroblanco]

Fire away amigo - this is very much not my area of 'expertise' but it is fascinating!
Oroblanco