ECS
Banned
Are you now stating that my statement are "positive factual statements"?
Why C2?
- Thread starter bigscoop
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ECS
Banned
The question still remains, What " positive,factual statement " made on this thread were you referencing?
ECS
Banned
I am not the only poster on these threads that has stated that, but for some reason known only to you, you have become obsessed with me and my posts to the point is has been noticed by others on these threads as harassment.
It is really time to cease and desist.
O
Old Silver
Guest
ECS, you have chosen to post on a treasure forum, on a board called "Beale Codes." If you don't like other posters discussing posts then maybe you should try another board. I discuss posts with everyone who posts here, so why should it be different when it comes to you? And you do the same, posting after everyone else, including me. You have a right to do that, and so do I.
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They would have known Thomas Beale in 1820 but the story was not made known until 1885. That is the thorn in this treasure story. Treasure buried in 1819 and 1822, Robert Morris did not know about it until he opened the ironbox in 1845 and it was another 40 years before the story was published.
O
Old Silver
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The point is, many of the people living in Lynchburg in 1885 was also living there in 1820. And they were of age in 1820, so they would have known whether or not a man by the name of Thomas Beale visited Robert Morriss then. I'm not just taking that from the Beale story, I researched it and found the people of 1885 actually were there in 1820. If I were going to create a fictional character, I definitely wouldn't put him in an area and a time where people still around would know better, unless I was writing an openly known novel of fiction. The Beale papers were published under the claim of "Authentic statements," so it doesn't really fall under the category of an openly known fiction, or dime novel. So the writer is obviously not trying to fool the people of Lynchburg. He would have failed at that attempt. All indications show the writer to be too intelligent to try such a thing. He knew those people were still living, because he said so, and I found him to be right about that. Now that doesn't mean the treasure part of the story is true, but it does show the likelihood of the existence of a man calling himself Thomas Beale at Robert Morriss' house of entertainment in 1820 and 1822.
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The author was intelligent as you say but sometimes intelligent people make mistakes and they are found out. I have searched archives for the hotel registries. I have searched for all of Robert Morris' business records. I have found no mention of Thomas Beale. I have found Robert Morris and Sarah Mitchell's genealogy.
You take the book I wrote on the Beale Treasure. Every character in that book is real. You can check facts, dates and locations. All is true but not the story line of the book. And that is what I believe the author tried to do. And I also believe that is why he found him an agent and did not want his name to be known. Why James Beverly Ward? Well for the most part he was always needing money with the large family he had and maybe that was an opportunity for him to make money without working. But who can really state for sure until some original facts can be found that even some of the best researchers have not found. There may not be any to find.
You take the book I wrote on the Beale Treasure. Every character in that book is real. You can check facts, dates and locations. All is true but not the story line of the book. And that is what I believe the author tried to do. And I also believe that is why he found him an agent and did not want his name to be known. Why James Beverly Ward? Well for the most part he was always needing money with the large family he had and maybe that was an opportunity for him to make money without working. But who can really state for sure until some original facts can be found that even some of the best researchers have not found. There may not be any to find.
O
Old Silver
Guest
Anything is possible, but I still don't see a writer trying something that he should have known wouldn't work.
ECS
Banned
Have I ever question your or anyone else's right to post? No.
Have I ever insulted you or said you were never invited to this site as you posted to me? No.
...and of course the negative quote you made on the "Ward based his..." thread, that you then attributed to me, a quote I never made, and on that same thread you stated that I was known for hijacking threads and badgering posters? That's quite a judgment statement on your part. Why?
I have never had a problem with discussing the posts of others, while you have continually demonstrated on several threads that you DO HAVE problems with me and/or my posts.
...and this is the second time that you mentioned that I should try another board.
Really? Why?
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bigscoop
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Look, the word "authentic" is simply stating that the story is authentic, this in no way should be taken to mean that the story is true. Every writer who creates an original story can make the same claim, that his tale is an authentic tale of his. Does this mean it's a true tale? Of course not. Now if the author would have claimed that his story was true, well, that would present something a bit different, but he apparently elected not to do that.
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O
Old Silver
Guest
It could mean, as you say, authentic statements of himself (the writer), but it can also mean authentic statements of Robert Morriss, and authentic statements of Thomas Beale.
But the point I was making is that the story doesn't claim to be a novel. A fictional novel is not pushed as a true story. In fact, a literary work is called fiction, even when it has much truth in it, because of the way writers embellish, etc. So, if the author of the Beale papers was saying that the statements of Morriss and Beale, in the story, were authentic, then he was telling it as a true story, and not just a dime novel.
O
Old Silver
Guest
The Beale papers, containing authentic statements regarding the treasure buried in 1819 and 1821, near Buford's, in Bedford county, Virginia, and which has never been recovered.
The authentic statements were those regarding the treasure buried in Bedford county. These were statements given to the author by Robert Morriss. So the author seems to be saying that the statements were authentic to Robert Morriss. Morriss was talking directly to the author, so he would have known them to be authentic. Morriss had the statements from Thomas Beale, and the author apparently believed Morriss, so maybe the author was counting Beale's statements authentic as well. But whether he meant both men, or just Morriss, what he seems to be saying is that what he was told was directly from the source...original...authentic. I think the author considered the story to be true. That doesn't mean it IS true, but the author seems to believe it is, going as far as to call it a history.
Mr. Beale, who deposited with Mr. Morriss the papers which form the subject of this history, is described as being a gentleman well educated, evidently of good family, and with popular manners.
And so we can say the story was not given as a fiction. It could have been a fiction, but it was not given as such. Works of fiction are advertised as fiction.
The authentic statements were those regarding the treasure buried in Bedford county. These were statements given to the author by Robert Morriss. So the author seems to be saying that the statements were authentic to Robert Morriss. Morriss was talking directly to the author, so he would have known them to be authentic. Morriss had the statements from Thomas Beale, and the author apparently believed Morriss, so maybe the author was counting Beale's statements authentic as well. But whether he meant both men, or just Morriss, what he seems to be saying is that what he was told was directly from the source...original...authentic. I think the author considered the story to be true. That doesn't mean it IS true, but the author seems to believe it is, going as far as to call it a history.
Mr. Beale, who deposited with Mr. Morriss the papers which form the subject of this history, is described as being a gentleman well educated, evidently of good family, and with popular manners.
And so we can say the story was not given as a fiction. It could have been a fiction, but it was not given as such. Works of fiction are advertised as fiction.
O
Old Silver
Guest
And that's my point. Evidently the author of the Beale papers was never found out to be lying about Thomas Beale.
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bigscoop
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In the art world, are forgeries advertised as being forgeries? This is why expensive and collectible art generally goes through a lengthy comparison process to determine its "authenticity." Also, and as it pertains to the Beale mystery, it is only claimed that the story contains authentic statements, but how many authentic statements? One, three, five, etc., etc.?
O
Old Silver
Guest
The Beale story is not art, it's writing. Look on any novel and see whether or not it says fiction. Even if it contains much truth it is still considered fiction. Non-fiction is newspaper articles...magazine articles...
Since the authentic statements were about the buried treasure (see heading of Beale papers), I would think the statements concerning all things to do with the buried treasure would have been the statements the author was referring to. These statements came directly to the author from Robert Morriss, and to Robert Morriss from Thomas Beale. So I would say ALL statements, at least from Morriss, would be the ones referred to.
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bigscoop
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I hate to break this to you but creative writing has always been considered an art form. Tell your top creative writers that they aren't artist and see what happens. 
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O
Old Silver
Guest
I hate to break this to you but creative writing has always been considered an art form. Tell your top creative writers that they aren't artist and see what happens.
You're getting two different things confused as one. Go take a look at novels, as I suggested, and the confusion will be made clear. I know about writing and I stand by what I said. A novel is automatically considered fiction, and the creative part is the reason why. Talk to a publisher if you don't believe me.
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