Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[Hal Croves]

Ever walked with broken blisters on your feet?
Makes you want to avoid the annoyance after a while , and nothing good comes from further walking with them..

If I had a place worth walking to, I would simply slap on a moleskin patch and tough it out.

View attachment 1269438

Long Live William Prince
​

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Ever walked with broken blisters on your feet?
Makes you want to avoid the annoyance after a while , and nothing good comes from further walking with them..

Well ... unless perchance.... there was some good reason to walk ...

 

[nobodie]

Dear moderator,
I'm still new at posting on the forum and not good with computers, I just learned how to send likes. I don't know how to send a p. m.to you. I am not trying to cause any trouble but I have a question that maybe you could help me understand. I used someone's name in this sentence(Banded name is trying his best to do what he legaly can.) and it was edited from my post. Now someone used his name in this sentence ( Suddenly Frank and Banded name care to make money the family? What good guys!) the sentance is still there with his name not edited. What was the difference in using his name? Forgive me for doing it this way but I don't know any other way to ask.

 

[markmar]

Six small stone maps.....
Six zero's on the back of the broken heart.
Coincidence ?

Maybe not . But , if would be applied in the stone trail heart , than they show the region ( ground-orientation ) like the stone Latin heart or the stone cross map . Would be an addition for better understanding of the area .

 

[sgtfda]

My opinion
That is a useless post.

I see you agree Bill and you removed it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Dear moderator,
I'm still new at posting on the forum and not good with computers, I just learned how to send likes. I don't know how to send a p. m.to you. I am not trying to cause any trouble but I have a question that maybe you could help me understand. I used someone's name in this sentence(Banded name is trying his best to do what he legaly can.) and it was edited from my post. Now someone used his name in this sentence ( Suddenly Frank and Banded name care to make money the family? What good guys!) the sentance is still there with his name not edited. What was the difference in using his name? Forgive me for doing it this way but I don't know any other way to ask.

Left side at bottom of every post are 3 icons, one is a triangle, that is a "report post" icon, click it and post your questions then enter....

 

[Old]

Bill, I gotta say you are one of the most interesting posters here.

Close down debate?? Nay, Not so. Anyone with two grains of sense can see what happened. It speaks for itself. You got carried away with the discussion and posted copyright material you shouldn't have and were asked to remove it. You were invited to repost where it Wouldn't violate the copyright terms. That option is still open to you. Simple and straight forward.

What is getting your, and a small group of other's, goat is that (collective) you laid down a "my way or the highway" ultimatum. The material you seek doesn't belong to me or anyone else you are belittling. So those you belittle had to opt for the highway....... We have seen all manner of hissy fit, childish temper tantrums thrown by those who laid out the terms. Those "offended" can't have it both ways. At this time.......its either talked about in general terms or not talked about at all. Simple.

The poor lady's picture that was posted to taunt is a prime example of childish behavior. I'm sure she was a fine looking lady in her day. Even today she has a better hair do than I. She has beautiful eyes that I'm sure has seen a lot. And; could tell you a lot. I wonder if the poster's mother, grandmother, maternal figure, would be proud of their prodigy's inference. Time is every man's enemy. I hope that poster remembers this event 30 years from now. I doubt it will be as entertaining when father time knocks on their door. I just chalk it up to the ignorance and arrogance of youth.

But; back to your comments. We got on this bus by your earlier comments that Travis was a hoaxster and con artist. I'm not nominating him for sainthood, but I don't see that. I see no evidence whatsoever he did any of that. Evidence of that is what I have asked you to show me. Still haven't seen any. What I HAVE seen is a whole bunch of people who fell all over themselves to possess a dead man's tools that had no clue what they were or what they meant or the history behind them.

Do you not have an assortment of maps, diagrams, charts that YOU have created around or about your house? I suspect you do. I also suspect they are taken from other material you have found or seen coupled with your personal search. If you suffered the "big one" this evening and your wife sold them and they passed from hand to hand would that make YOU a hoaxster or con artist?

Yes, we have a working theory that's coming together quite nicely that Travis had material that predated the stones you see today. Yes, we feel the museum stones are a second or third generation of a part of that material which included both drawn maps and carved stones. Its part of, but by no means the totality, of what we are looking into. Its no more mystical than that.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

FYI. Excerpts of copyrighted material for discussion purposes under "fair use" does not generally violate copyrights....

 

[nobodie]

Treasure_Hunter,
Thannk you. I suck at this, but I'm trying to learn. Next thing I need to learn is to edit and delete my post.
Bill,
Agree or disagree with you I'll miss you. ( I see shadow people. )

 

[cw0909]

nobodie you asked about how to send a pm, here is one way
click name on you want to send pm to,and gives you these options see jpg

 

[Azquester]

Bill, I gotta say you are one of the most interesting posters here.

Close down debate?? Nay, Not so. Anyone with two grains of sense can see what happened. It speaks for itself. You got carried away with the discussion and posted copyright material you shouldn't have and were asked to remove it. You were invited to repost where it Wouldn't violate the copyright terms. That option is still open to you. Simple and straight forward.

What is getting your, and a small group of other's, goat is that (collective) you laid down a "my way or the highway" ultimatum. The material you seek doesn't belong to me or anyone else you are belittling. So those you belittle had to opt for the highway....... We have seen all manner of hissy fit, childish temper tantrums thrown by those who laid out the terms. Those "offended" can't have it both ways. At this time.......its either talked about in general terms or not talked about at all. Simple.

The poor lady's picture that was posted to taunt is a prime example of childish behavior. I'm sure she was a fine looking lady in her day. Even today she has a better hair do than I. She has beautiful eyes that I'm sure has seen a lot. And; could tell you a lot. I wonder if the poster's mother, grandmother, maternal figure, would be proud of their prodigy's inference. Time is every man's enemy. I hope that poster remembers this event 30 years from now. I doubt it will be as entertaining when father time knocks on their door. I just chalk it up to the ignorance and arrogance of youth.

But; back to your comments. We got on this bus by your earlier comments that Travis was a hoaxster and con artist. I'm not nominating him for sainthood, but I don't see that. I see no evidence whatsoever he did any of that. Evidence of that is what I have asked you to show me. Still haven't seen any. What I HAVE seen is a whole bunch of people who fell all over themselves to possess a dead man's tools that had no clue what they were or what they meant or the history behind them.

Do you not have an assortment of maps, diagrams, charts that YOU have created around or about your house? I suspect you do. I also suspect they are taken from other material you have found or seen coupled with your personal search. If you suffered the "big one" this evening and your wife sold them and they passed from hand to hand would that make YOU a hoaxster or con artist?

Yes, we have a working theory that's coming together quite nicely that Travis had material that predated the stones you see today. Yes, we feel the museum stones are a second or third generation of a part of that material which included both drawn maps and carved stones. Its part of, but by no means the totality, of what we are looking into. Its no more mystical than that.

First off I never saw the question. I just went back on here and my post was missing so I assumed that moderation was tricked into deleting it which they were. It wasn't copyrighted material. Just some sentences from portions of correspondence. And you're right I do have map material's laying all over my house. I've never thought of making stone maps out of it until now. I guess if Travis can do it anyone can.

Joking a bit on here is common and if wasn't for the laughs we get from it this site would be to bland. It seems the people over there have decided they aren't releasing anymore material because it gave to much away the first few times. Just another group of people hanging on to others little family secrets that's all. So Travis isn't going to be nominated for sainthood? We all thought he could do no wrong. After all he is the Map Maker we now all know. That is a talent worth something I believe. Not a lot but something...


You do agree he did make all those Maps on Stone don't you? Whether they were real Treasure Maps or not has nothing to do with it. And since you guys are acting as copyright detectives for that man who shall not be named we can all see what that does to any form of open discussion's about Travis's true behavior and intensions. You give us innuendo's about his integrity but won't give out details that don't get filtered through that guy and his family friends. So I see now you're being censored more than us on here. That must be hard not being able to say anything about a man that was just exposed as being a fraud and a Hoaxer.

You can tell us he's a fine man but the cat has been let out of the proverbial bag and he's a deer in the head lights of many people. That's not what we as listeners are accustom to hearing from true unbiased Professional Researchers. Maybe film producers or publishers but not PR.


So we have a dilemma of whom to believe or not. Should we believe those that have chosen to not allow scrutiny of their actions by leaving this forum for a much more Controllable Environment on another forum?
Why might I ask would someone not be able to handle tough questions? I know, It's because they're not being forthright in their answers or can't take the pressure of exposure. You call that professionalism?

I think not. They have no control power over open discussion's. Over there they do. And why would one want to Moderate their own Threads? Information and Damage control that's easy.

It just serves to make the people associated with it lose credibility by their own actions. I think they should come back on this website and be open for debate. That would go along way towards convincing anyone Travis was a decent man. Now I see he not only was the Carver of the Stones but also the fabricator of the paper maps did I hear that correctly? I haven't heard a thing about the type of paper the Barn map was on or about the water marks on the authentic old parchment maps or pigskin so I guess we are being asked to be fools again. If there is no provenance for the paper maps, water marks, type of Parchment, pigskins ect. we can assume that they were made or copied from one of those authentic maps? I would surely hope this is the case. For Travis to just come up with these maps all by himself out of the blue is highly suspect.

 

[sgtfda]

Successful treasure hunters never have a fixed opinion and keep a open mind. They adapt to new information and circumstances.

 

[deducer]

Successful treasure hunters never have a fixed opinion and keep a open mind. They adapt to new information and circumstances.

Truer words were never spoken!

This happens to even the best.

 

[Azquester]

Successful treasure hunters never have a fixed opinion and keep a open mind. They adapt to new information and circumstances.

Your so right Frank. One thing I might add. In my experience of TH you can get set back by years if you let others influence your direction or interpretation's of various signs and symbols believe me it does happen.

Especially when there is no known information about a monument or sign. Follow that sign until you figure it out don't let others try and tell you what it is unless it's a given that it is what they say.
I wasted a few years following the rants of the man in Florida thinking he had more info about what the signs meant than I. only to find out after searching and digging he didn't really know so he guessed what they meant. That kept me busy for a few critical years of my life digging when I had the strength to do it. Now not so much anymore as my body has been through so much hard labor it screws me up too dig for any length of time. I stopped digging and resorted to using a VLF for pin pointing my target and had success once I went out on my own and threw away the advice of those that only thought they knew.

Take all information from every source you can and once you've hit the brick wall use your own judgment or at least try it your way. You can always do it someone else's way if yours hits a ditch.

Sooner or later you're going to have to have a fixed opinion once you see that opinion works as fact. But even that can become foggy as with these simple signs some may be easy and others unattainable using what worked with another. If a group of signs are taken out of context they become more rampant and ripe for misinterpretation.


Of course this only applies with ground maps, monuments, and shadow / sun signs. If your looking for historical documents its a different ball of wax. I spent a long spell of time hunting down documents at the Arizona State Museum only to find there isn't much out there about anything when it comes to left over secrets of the Spanish conquest's Treasure Hiding ways. Existing books like Kenworthy and Price tell the basics but leave out any advanced usable information.

Take what you will from each and use it for making your own cake. But please don't leave the center of it open for everyone your cake may fall from all the arguments and differences of opinions.

Have a nice Monday.

 

[starman 1]

The Truth

Gentlemen:

Tom says hi.

Originally Posted by sgtfda:

Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.

Frank,

Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.


Take care,

Joe




starman

 

[sdcfia]

Successful treasure hunters never have a fixed opinion and keep a open mind. They adapt to new information and circumstances.

"Then I'll get on my knees and pray we don't get fooled again" ​P. Townshend 1971

 

[releventchair]

First off I never saw the question. I just went back on here and my post was missing so I assumed that moderation was tricked into deleting it which they were. It wasn't copyrighted material. Just some sentences from portions of correspondence. And you're right I do have map material's laying all over my house. I've never thought of making stone maps out of it until now. I guess if Travis can do it anyone can.

Joking a bit on here is common and if wasn't for the laughs we get from it this site would be to bland. It seems the people over there have decided they aren't releasing anymore material because it gave to much away the first few times. Just another group of people hanging on to others little family secrets that's all. So Travis isn't going to be nominated for sainthood? We all thought he could do no wrong. After all he is the Map Maker we now all know. That is a talent worth something I believe. Not a lot but something...


You do agree he did make all those Maps on Stone don't you? Whether they were real Treasure Maps or not has nothing to do with it. And since you guys are acting as copyright detectives for that man who shall not be named we can all see what that does to any form of open discussion's about Travis's true behavior and intensions. You give us innuendo's about his integrity but won't give out details that don't get filtered through that guy and his family friends. So I see now you're being censored more than us on here. That must be hard not being able to say anything about a man that was just exposed as being a fraud and a Hoaxer.

You can tell us he's a fine man but the cat has been let out of the proverbial bag and he's a deer in the head lights of many people. That's not what we as listeners are accustom to hearing from true unbiased Professional Researchers. Maybe film producers or publishers but not PR.


So we have a dilemma of whom to believe or not. Should we believe those that have chosen to not allow scrutiny of their actions by leaving this forum for a much more Controllable Environment on another forum?
Why might I ask would someone not be able to handle tough questions? I know, It's because they're not being forthright in their answers or can't take the pressure of exposure. You call that professionalism?

I think not. They have no control power over open discussion's. Over there they do. And why would one want to Moderate their own Threads? Information and Damage control that's easy.

It just serves to make the people associated with it lose credibility by their own actions. I think they should come back on this website and be open for debate. That would go along way towards convincing anyone Travis was a decent man. Now I see he not only was the Carver of the Stones but also the fabricator of the paper maps did I hear that correctly? I haven't heard a thing about the type of paper the Barn map was on or about the water marks on the authentic old parchment maps or pigskin so I guess we are being asked to be fools again. If there is no provenance for the paper maps, water marks, type of Parchment, pigskins ect. we can assume that they were made or copied from one of those authentic maps? I would surely hope this is the case. For Travis to just come up with these maps all by himself out of the blue is highly suspect.

"they aren't releasing anymore material because it gave to much away the first few times"
B.S.. Folks whining about to little being released and making accusations of being led on caused it. Rather than listen to the critics distract ..just go about their business instead.
Who asked you to believe anything more than your own homework?

 

[Azquester]

"they aren't releasing anymore material because it gave to much away the first few times"
B.S.. Folks whining about to little being released and making accusations of being led on caused it. Rather than listen to the critics distract ..just go about their business instead.
Who asked you to believe anything more than your own homework?

You're right no one asked me to believe anything at all.

I do reserve the right to critique information being released by that team of Semi-Professional Researchers on a need to know basis. The other man who's name shall remain unspoken on this site released the bits he did to thank those that had helped him get so much secret information in such a short time. Taking it at face value with no supporting evidence we have no choice but to believe what he said as being truth. All of it. I don't think he was lying do you?

If he was stating something, since no one asked me to believe him, are you saying he was intentionally creating a false narrative for drama?

I think what he was attempting to do is show there's more to the story than meets the ear. A lead up to a layered past of one mistake after another from Travis a man that had an ulterior motive which we don't understand as of yet. Only that group has the answers to his history, we don't. So I see what your saying. We don't know if he's telling us fact so there for we are not informed enough to speak about it.

In other words, they control the secret information that we haven't been told yet so we as observers are being politely asked to not pass judgment on Travis or the man who's investigating his family.

How long shall we wait for this coming information?

I see he did tell us (Mr R) to do some historical work on the Peralta's and another prominent family of history. Something about Jacob Waltz getting a map of the same type from some unknown person at this time.

Is that the homework you are speaking of?

I don't see how we can complete it since we have no direct lines to the family or his history except through Mr R. Unless you're suggesting we all need to get in touch with Travis's family and ask them the questions we cannot answer. Maybe that's the help Mr R was speaking of. But, if the family won't talk to us because of confidentiality contracts we can't help him.

So I guess we wait.

 

[Weaversneedle]

You're right no one asked me to believe anything at all.

I do reserve the right to critique information being released by that team of Semi-Professional Researchers on a need to know basis. The other man who's name shall remain unspoken on this site released the bits he did to thank those that had helped him get so much secret information in such a short time. Taking it at face value with no supporting evidence we have no choice but to believe what he said as being truth. All of it. I don't think he was lying do you?

If he was stating something, since no one asked me to believe him, are you saying he was intentionally creating a false narrative for drama?

I think what he was attempting to do is show there's more to the story than meets the ear. A lead up to a layered past of one mistake after another from Travis a man that had an ulterior motive which we don't understand as of yet. Only that group has the answers to his history, we don't. So I see what your saying. We don't know if he's telling us fact so there for we are not informed enough to speak about it.

In other words, they control the secret information that we haven't been told yet so we as observers are being politely asked to not pass judgment on Travis or the man who's investigating his family.

How long shall we wait for this coming information?

I see he did tell us (Mr R) to do some historical work on the Peralta's and another prominent family of history. Something about Jacob Waltz getting a map of the same type from some unknown person at this time.

Is that the homework you are speaking of?

I don't see how we can complete it since we have no direct lines to the family or his history except through Mr R. Unless you're suggesting we all need to get in touch with Travis's family and ask them the questions we cannot answer. Maybe that's the help Mr R was speaking of. But, if the family won't talk to us because of confidentiality contracts we can't help him.

So I guess we wait.

I guess if you really wanted the info from the Tomlinson family you could have made the trip to Texas before R did and then you would be the possessor of that said knowledge and you could have decided how you wanted to release it to the public. But R got there first so I guess it's up to him and all the bellyaching in the world isn't going to change that.
Moral of the story is:
If you want anything done right you have to do it yourself

 

[cactusjumper]

"they aren't releasing anymore material because it gave to much away the first few times"
B.S.. Folks whining about to little being released and making accusations of being led on caused it. Rather than listen to the critics distract ..just go about their business instead.
Who asked you to believe anything more than your own homework?

RC,

Having never had the urge to go to Texas and bother that family, I have no "homework" to believe. I am probably the reason that they are no longer posting, piecemeal, the information they are gathering. I received a call from RG which deteriorated into a verbal whipping over my posting "likes" and not being totally on board with that entire affair.

I was asked my opinion on how they were releasing the information and if they should just stop posting. I opined I thought they would be better off to just wait until they were ready to release the entire project.....book, film or whatever.

As I have mentioned before, I don't really have a dog in this fight and I'm more than willing to wait and see the story when it's finalized. I've also mentioned that I'm no fan of the story, as it's being presented. Having said that, I can see the reasoning that Ryan is doing it the way he is.

Once again, I wish Ryan, his team and the Tumlinson family all the luck in the world.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo