Why did Travis Tumlinson Fake the Stone Maps as a Hoax?

[Hal Croves]

I took the liberty of saying in my own words what is being asked from that other site. This is not a copy or copyright material from the other place this is my own words made by me no one else.


1) What is your personal thinking on the numerals 1-8-4-7?

2) What is your take of the horse or priest stone, with regards to the trail stones? Do you feel like they belong together, or are they two different pieces of information?

3) From a "treasure researcher" point of view, why would anyone go out in the Superstitions and spend $30k+ in their hunting of these fabricated maps, but not just use the same amount to do research with others that actually knew the legend? If you lay down that amount of cash, and didn't find Treasure, would it also seem because of that, you would have bad feelings towards the fake stone maps, or any lost Dutchman treasure legend?

4) Why do others feel entitled to the shoddy research done by me, when they could have just simply gone before I and done it their self ? Why is giving what I can give, not "good enough", when I'm not obliged to give anything to anyone?

5) How much of the C Mitchell saga do you think is truth from his book, Superstition Treasures?

6) How much people have looked through out the gleamed information on G Cundiff's site? Read each document that he posted about this legend? If none, than why?

7) What does anyone recall reading about the site, Travis says, these stone maps were located?

8) For anyone, what is the best lies that you have found about the stone maps and on the other side of that, what is the greatest truth?

9) If you found Treasure early in the century when it was not legal to possess, and you found some maps that lead to that Treasure, how would you act on it?

10) What would you do in order to get some other Treasure Hunter off your tail?

11) Up until now, did you believe the peralta stones in the museum as being authentic or not? Even though everyone else say's they're bogus? Because the Stone Maps are displayed in the Superstition Mountain non profit do you think that they are not important because they are not in a state sponsored Museum?

Re. #4. Holy Stones Billy. I need a self-imposed time out today or I will get banned.

 

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[Hal Croves]

Yeah, like: why did he end up in Natchez after getting off the boat, and what were his associations there? And: what were his associations and activities in California, especially El Monte, besides the old reliable, "He worked as a miner"?

Very interesting. What do you make of these things and what specifically are you pointing to?

 

[nobodie]

I want to thank everyone for what you have done.

 

[sdcfia]

Very interesting. What do you make of these things and what specifically are you pointing to?

The same sorts of things that might help explain questions such as, "What is your opinion on the number 1847?" If I were younger, had the time and a strong enough interest in the Waltz - Stone Maps lore, I'd beat the bushes and try to nail down his "politics". I can't even keep up with my own interests, let alone stuff in Arizona.

 

[captain1965]

Phillip Darrell Duppa most likely associated with Waltz. Duppa also came from Prescott with Jack Swilling to the future site of Phoenix. I believe Duppa was running the local Free Mason's lodge.

 

[Hal Croves]

The same sorts of things that might help explain questions such as, "What is your opinion on the number 1847?" If I were younger, had the time and a strong enough interest in the Waltz - Stone Maps lore, I'd beat the bushes and try to nail down his "politics". I can't even keep up with my own interests, let alone stuff in Arizona.

One report suggested that Waltz was a Republican and made a concerted effort to vote. Based on his relationship with Julia, I would gamble to say that this could be correct.

It actually does lead to a much large story (this line of thinking).
Nice post.

 

[Ponchosportal]

Since there has been no known connection established between the LDM and PSMs maybe now we can get back to the LDM without the PSM distraction.

Best of luck in your efforts,
Poncho

 

[Hal Croves]

Phillip Darrell Duppa most likely associated with Waltz. Duppa also came from Prescott with Jack Swilling to the future site of Phoenix. I believe Duppa was running the local Free Mason's lodge.

I would caution you to go slow with Duppa but if you have proof of his involvement in a lodge, please correct me. Duppa and his story are far more complicated than most people care to understand and while Freemasonry surrounded him in life, I am not convinced that he would have made a good Mason.

I have often wondered if Waltz ever met Lord Duppa.

 

[Weaversneedle]

The reports will continue, count on it. In fact, if you read the list that was recently posted, you will find them there, masked as questions. In all honesty, they simply can't help themselves and the Romney like bromides and platitudes well, they certainly deserve a good bashing. Here is what you seem not to understand about getting banned or "shut down", insecure people do it to themselves.

What do you mean by me not understand about getting banned? Where did that come from? If you think these individuals need bashing maybe you should drive out there and do it in person. You seem to be an angry man. I am not sure why you have a vendetta against the Texas crew. Maybe you could explain it?

 

[Hal Croves]

Since there has been no known connection established between the LDM and PSMs maybe now we can get back to the LDM without the PSM distraction.

Best of luck in your efforts,
Poncho

Do you believe in a Lost Dutchman Mine somewhere in the Superstitions?
If so, why?

I don't know what to say about the Stone Maps and Waltz. The museum collection may be originals or they may be an altered copy of an original smaller collection. We really don't have an answer either way. If they Waltz/Stone Maps are connected, its most likely via another old map. Perhaps even one in the museums collection.

Personally, I think that Waltz was simply passing by when he heard the familiar sound of a mine being worked. He makes his way to the sound, and perhaps does murder two or three unsuspecting Mexican miners. If this scenario is correct, that tells us that Waltz was most likely following an old trail and that the mine is within ear shot of that trail. Not only that, but he could see the military trail from his mine but from the trail, the mine could not be seen. A shaft that went straight down at your feet would not be seen when looking up from the Military trail below, if that shaft were on a flat ledge that opened to the sky.

 

[Hal Croves]

What do you mean by me not understand about getting banned? Where did that come from? If you think these individuals need bashing maybe you should drive out there and do it in person. You seem to be an angry man. I am not sure why you have a vendetta against the Texas crew. Maybe you could explain it?

Are you not upset that the communication dribble has been cut? Honestly, don't you blame me for it? Just a little? That's what I took from your posts. So, there is the answer to your question about my post. And, if you read cactusjumper's post, he takes credit for shutting things down so, your posts and criticisms seem misdirected. I also don't have a vendetta against anyone in Texas but I do have a problem with the way this history is being presented and the presenter, who lives in Arizona.

And he already knows how I feel and again only recently. So, who's left to bash?
Read back, bashing people was your suggestion, only I should hold off doing it for now.

This is the place to write about and read opinions other than your own, even if they come from angry old men.

 

[Ponchosportal]

Do you believe in a Lost Dutchman Mine somewhere in the Superstitions?
If so, why?

I don't know what to say about the Stone Maps and Waltz. The museum collection may be originals or they may be an altered copy of an original smaller collection. We really don't have an answer either way. If they Waltz/Stone Maps are connected, its most likely via another old map. Perhaps even one in the museums collection.

Personally, I think that Waltz was simply passing by when he heard the familiar sound of a mine being worked. He makes his way to the sound, and perhaps does murder two or three unsuspecting Mexican miners. If this scenario is correct, that tells us that Waltz was most likely following an old trail and that the mine is within ear shot of that trail. Not only that, but he could see the military trail from his mine but from the trail, the mine could not be seen. A shaft that went straight down at your feet would not be seen when looking up from the Military trail below, if that shaft were on a flat ledge that opened to the sky.

#1. I am not a treasure hunter.

#2. I believe in a cache of gold obtained and hidden by JW in the Supers.

#3. My interests are only in the history and more importantly the reason why people do the things they do.

Best of luck,
Poncho

 

[nobodie]

Hal,
Or the the LDM is on a slope lower than the opposing ridge line. Stand up at the mouth of the mine and see over the ridge in front him to see the trail. The setting sun shines into the mine. (West)

 

[Hal Croves]

#1. I am not a treasure hunter.

#2. I believe in a cache of gold obtained and hidden by JW in the Supers.

#3. My interests are only in the history and more importantly the reason why people do the things they do.

Best of luck,
Poncho

You are not a treasure hunter but you are interested in history and you believe in a cache of gold. The detective in you must have come to this conclusion somehow? I guess that's what I am after. What convinced you? Behaviors? Evidence?

 

[cactusjumper]

Are you not upset that the communication dribble has been cut? Honestly, don't you blame me for it? Just a little? That's what I took from your posts. So, there is the answer to your question about my post. And, if you read cactusjumper's post, he takes credit for shutting things down so, your posts and criticisms seem misdirected. I also don't have a vendetta against anyone in Texas but I do have a problem with the way this history is being presented and the presenter, who lives in Arizona.

And he already knows how I feel and again only recently. So, who's left to bash?
Read back, bashing people was your suggestion, only I should hold off doing it for now.

This is the place to write about and read opinions other than your own, even if they come from angry old men.

Hal,

As I said, I was asked for my opinion if he should just stop posting. My opinion, was yes. It was Ryan's idea and it came out after our conversation got heated, on his part not mine. I don't like being forced into someone else's conclusions, but I don't get angry.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Weaversneedle]

Are you not upset that the communication dribble has been cut? Honestly, don't you blame me for it? Just a little? That's what I took from your posts. So, there is the answer to your question about my post. And, if you read cactusjumper's post, he takes credit for shutting things down so, your posts and criticisms seem misdirected. I also don't have a vendetta against anyone in Texas but I do have a problem with the way this history is being presented and the presenter, who lives in Arizona.

And he already knows how I feel and again only recently. So, who's left to bash?
Read back, bashing people was your suggestion, only I should hold off doing it for now.

This is the place to write about and read opinions other than your own, even if they come from angry old men.

From what ive seen since i have been here,Yes l would definitely say you are the main instigator in getting the other site shut down so it would appear you accomplished your mission and you still didn't answer my question. If you have something to say to the Tomlinsons why don't you head down there and say it to their face and not from the safety of your computer screen. I'm sure they would like to hear what you have to say. And what have you got against old men? I'd wager most of us on the forum are older men

 

[Hal Croves]

From what ive seen since i have been here,Yes l would definitely say you are the main instigator in getting the other site shut down so it would appear you accomplished your mission and you still didn't answer my question. If you have something to say to the Tomlinsons why don't you head down there and say it to their face and not from the safety of your computer screen. I'm sure they would like to hear what you have to say. And what have you got against old men? I'd wager most of us on the forum are older men

Instigator? I think agitator is a better word and I wouldn't protest you using it. Its obvious that you are not reading my posts thru because I don't recall ever saying anything disrespectful to or towards the Tumlinson family. So, what would you have me say to them after flying me first class to Texas? I think that you are confusing the Tumlinsons and Ryan as one entity. They are not.

You seem sure of what the Tumlinsons think and want to hear. Are you speaking for them?

I wrote "angry old men", meaning that I am old and according to you, angry. So, make room for me if you can.

 

[Weaversneedle]

No hal I have never met the Tomlinsons nor do I speak for them. And I'm not even sure I agree with everything that is going on in Texas but I'd at least like to have the right to listen to what they have to say and what they are uncovering without you injecting your opinion and throwing jabs. I would say we are all reasonably intelligent adults here on the forum and are perfectly capable of coming to our own conclusions about the "dribble" as you put it. But thanks to you we have been stripped of that right. In the future I would appreciate it if you would let us make our own decisions and if you don't like some of the information and research people post on here then hunt them down and tell them about it. Don't flog them on the forum. Some of us want to hear what they are finding in Texas. Also hal I'm not your father. Buy your own first class ticket to Texas

 

[Weaversneedle]

Instigator? I think agitator is a better word and I wouldn't protest you using it. Its obvious that you are not reading my posts thru because I don't recall ever saying anything disrespectful to or towards the Tumlinson family. So, what would you have me say to them after flying me first class to Texas? I think that you are confusing the Tumlinsons and Ryan as one entity. They are not.

You seem sure of what the Tumlinsons think and want to hear. Are you speaking for them?

I wrote "angry old men", meaning that I am old and according to you, angry. So, make room for me if you can.

Hal, any relation to B. Traven?

 

[nobodie]

Some people on the forum say things to get a rise out of others, just to keep things going. This is our loss.