Willie L Douthit

[sdcfia]

sdcfia,

Good point regarding Clarence's photo of Willie. While John Clarence provides a lot of sources many of the pictures aren't credited, which is a shame. We don't know where the photos of Willie or Buster Ward came from and are left to guess.

Maybe Willie provided both photos during his visit in 1973 or 1989. If so he could have came back pretending to be Willie Douthit.

OK, I thought about it and Willie is still Laurence.

The photo of Buster is before his accident in 1930 and it raises the question about where that photo came from. Why would Willie have it? Heck, it might not even be Buster.

I have tried to do a little research on Richard "Buster" Ward and I haven't been able to get a foothold. Did he live to be an old man or did he die young. I know there are stories but nothing "I" would take to the bank!

Garry

PS. Apparently John Clarence doesn't make the connection between Willie and Laurence in his book. (I don't remember if he did! Why not? It seems at least somewhat relevant.)

It was stated somewhere (sorry, I can't place the source offhand) that Buster and Willie were cousins. Also, I seem to remember that Buster might have lived many years before passing on in Lordsburg, NM. I can't vouch for any of it, but it may be a starting point on Buster.

 

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[gollum]

Hey All,

After spending a full day driving and hiking trying to get out to Willie's Property, I can tell you that it will be a multi-day event to get there. From the South, the way is blocked by The Big Tujunga Reservoir (which has ZERO public access) and many miles of off-trail mountain hiking:



From the North/East/West there are nothing but blocked fire roads. Unless I can talk my way into a key from the BLM (HAHAHA) for the locks on those gates, Willie's Property may have to stay unsearched.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Hey All,

After spending a full day driving and hiking trying to get out to Willie's Property, I can tell you that it will be a multi-day event to get there. From the South, the way is blocked by The Big Tujunga Reservoir (which has ZERO public access) and many miles of off-trail mountain hiking:

View attachment 1088466 View attachment 1088467

From the North/East/West there are nothing but blocked fire roads. Unless I can talk my way into a key from the BLM (HAHAHA) for the locks on those gates, Willie's Property may have to stay unsearched.

Mike

Looks a little steep and brushy in places. Seems like an odd real estate purchase for Larry and Minnie. When the Angeles NF was formed (when was that?), I don't imagine the government paid a lot to buy the private parcels. It looks like a good place to hide gold bars though. If that was the case back in the 50s, I'll bet Larry hid them close to an existing road at the time.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Garry
His name was Robert Ward I found him in the 1920 census living in Sierra co New Mexico, in 1930 there is a Robert Ward listed as patient living in Albuquerque, but it doesn't say who he is living with, his wife's name was Eunice, and what about Busters dad I think has some ties to all this story

Mike
Oh yeah we gonna search it

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Garry
There are still Douhthits And Foreman living in Portals and Clovis

 

[BIGSCOTT]

There is a girl named Windy Matthews that takes care of their markers on findagrave she may have something to add

 

[BIGSCOTT]

I think Roger Snow knows how Buster and Willies family had ties

 

[gollum]

BIGSCOTT,

Make sure you have the right Robert Ward. "Buster's" real name is/was Robert Ward Jr. If it doesn't say "JR" its not our boy.

Just like another person of interest in this whole Caballos/San Andres Tale. There are two people with identical names (in this case neither one is a Junior though).

Mike

 

[gollum]

SDCFIA,

Your thoughts about being near a road were mine as well. Not fun dragging 40 pound gold bars through rough terrain (and I am a big guy). Maybe he invested in what passed for an ATV in 1958? Back then, the fire roads would probably have not been blocked though. Even with accessible roads, the closest one to his property (using that arrow on the map as a South West Corner Mark) is two canyons away. The way I figured the property was that the center point of the canyon would run down the center of his parcel. Willie was a small guy as well.

Although, how many gold bars did he really need to move at a time? Lets just say he went back to NM once a year and grabbed two to four bars at a time. Eighty to one hundred sixty pounds of gold would be waaaaaay more than enough to get through the year. In my estimation, Willie played his cards JUST RIGHT! Don't get too greedy. Slip back in every once in a while when nobody knows you're there. Grab what you can in one or two trips. Don't linger or bring out too much and attract attention to yourself. He had a lifetime source of money. The ONLY reason we know any of this stuff is because Willie Douthit being Willie Douthit couldn't stand keeping his mouth closed all these years. He said in some of those early interviews that he only got in trouble with that gold because he knew he talked too much! HAHAHA That's our Willie!

Mike

 

[Garry]

Garry
His name was Robert Ward I found him in the 1920 census living in Sierra co New Mexico, in 1930 there is a Robert Ward listed as patient living in Albuquerque, but it doesn't say who he is living with, his wife's name was Eunice, and what about Busters dad I think has some ties to all this story

BIGSCOTT,

Thanks for the tip on Robert Ward. I looked for Buster two or three weeks ago and ruled this Robert Ward out as being our Buster because this Robert Ward died in Phoenix in 1942 and I then believed the story that he lived until the 1990's in California and he also died rich! (Like Willie)

I'm revisiting the Robert Ward story from a new perspective and I think some things might be falling in place for this being our Buster. Thanks again!

Garry

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Very interesting thread. So my question is, Who was it that stashed the Gold old Willie may have found?

L.C.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Some stories say he was a Jr some say he want, what led me to my findings was that after the railroad accident in El Paso Willie said you better call Eunice, the newspaper article said he was 27 that would put his date of birth 1902 or 1903, the census record I found matched this criteria

 

[BIGSCOTT]

L.C. read lots of your threads,didn't know you had books out, gonna get me a copy, is the providence illustrated yours also? Earlier in this thread Judy h talks about the Wells family ties to the civil war and Lincoln, anything you could add would be great

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Also I kinda think I know where you were going with who stashed it there, I know its in one of your threads but give us a quick overview of how that whole area( southwest us and parts of Mexico ) were annexed and we can keep it in mind as we trace down the whole Willie- Buster- Mary Wells connection.

 

[gollum]

LC,

I know where you're going with this as well. If the gold found would have all been refined pure bars, then I might give it some credence. My family has it's own history with the KGC post Civil War. I posted a looooooooooong time ago about it:

ME-N-THE-KGC

The big problem with the KGC being the originators is that a lot of the loot from VP were letters and jewelry dating into the 1700s. Also, most of the bars found were unrefined Dore Bars (thats why for two years Doc thought they were "Pig Iron"). If they would have been from the Confederate Treasury, they would have been shiny refined gold.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

LC,

I know where you're going with this as well. If the gold found would have all been refined pure bars, then I might give it some credence. My family has it's own history with the KGC post Civil War. I posted a looooooooooong time ago about it:

ME-N-THE-KGC

The big problem with the KGC being the originators is that a lot of the loot from VP were letters and jewelry dating into the 1700s. Also, most of the bars found were unrefined Dore Bars (thats why for two years Doc thought they were "Pig Iron"). If they would have been from the Confederate Treasury, they would have been shiny refined gold.

Mike

You may both be right. LC has provided incredible research into many of the group's political intrigues in the "KGC" category - fertile ground for those interested in looking under the hood of our dumbed-down textbook versions of history. Were there hidden conspiracies on a high and far-reaching level? Of course there were - there always have been, there are today and there always will be in the world of human beings. It's naive to deny that that's the way things work.

When we attempt to narrow the focus to the realm of cached treasures, that's where the ubiquitous "KGC" label becomes misleading, in my opinion. While there certainly appears to be common ground linking members the old Dixie political groups to numerous post-CW treasure rumors, it's more interesting to try to figure out how and with whom else these former Southern operatives may have become associated. The "mother group" allegedly contains fragments of organizations that existed far before the CW - Knights Templar (Masons), Jesuits, Mormons - et al, by rumor - an elite group anchored in Europe that the Reb secret service became field operatives for. This is the group that has the reputation as the "greatest treasure hunters in the world", stemming from their distant origins at Solomon's Temple and the information that became available to them by virtue of their positions in the world. This is big time conspiracy stuff, and allegedly the basis for most of the arcane American treasure mysteries we are interested in, including the Caballo rumors (which may have been disinformative from the beginning). Anyway - this is what "the KGC crowd" believes, and requires a paradigm shift in a person's belief system to understand where they're coming from. It's a very troubling pill to swallow and is denied out of hand by most of us.

That said, maybe Willie and Waylon and the boys were just damned lucky yokels after all back in the 30's. Or maybe there's much more to the story. A lot has been revealed on this thread about Willie to suggest there was more to him than we might have expected. Maybe Buster will surprise us too.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Garry
Yeah the RObert Ward buried in Phoenix looks right findagrave shows him to be the son of Robert Ward and Tellie carbello, in 1910 and 1920 there is Robert Ward and a Tellie or Tilla with a son Robert Ward with the right birtdate living in Eagle New Mexico

 

[BIGSCOTT]

The thing about old census records is recorders were riding a horse, or buggy, or even walking the original census record will not be in alphabetical order this has helped me in the past, one bad thing is that they are hand written and sometimes illegible, illegible, ----- hard to read,now about the Robert Ward listed as a patient in 1930 the original census cold be used to figure out if this was a hospital where he recooperated from the train accident, the date sure is right

 

[BIGSCOTT]

The census takers were going door to door, or ranch to ranch, or hospital to hospital, maybe if our Buster was in a hospital their records would have a forwarding address, also if the census records I looked at are correct Buster had a son who would be in his 80's today

 

[Garry]

Garry
Yeah the RObert Ward buried in Phoenix looks right findagrave shows him to be the son of Robert Ward and Tellie carbello, in 1910 and 1920 there is Robert Ward and a Tellie or Tilla with a son Robert Ward with the right birtdate living in Eagle New Mexico

BIG SCOTT,

I agree that we're probably on the right track. One thing that threw me off was trying to use the stories (tall tales?) that have been passed down. Once I got beyond that, everything appears to be clicking. I wouldn't put much credence in the Willie and Buster "cousin" relationship unless someone lays it all out. Talk is cheap!

You are also on track with the 1910 and 1920 Census information for Buster

I don't think the Robert H.Ward in the Albuquerque hospital in the 1930 Census is our Robert.

In the 1930 Sierra County, New Mexico Census we find Robert Ward (27), Eunice (Wife) (20), and two sons Robert (3) and Leonard (1). Robert's younger brother Oliver Ward (24) is also listed. BTW Robert lists his occupation as a Gold Miner.

The following is Robert "Buster" Ward's Death Certificate.



The Death Certificate seems to spell out the details of someone who died without any family and is probably buried in a potters field grave.

(No Gold Bars for Buster?)

It may be a short and "sad" thread for Buster's history.

Garry