Core Drilling question

[SaltwaterServr]

I just picked up an older model Aster two person hand-held core drill, circa the 1960's. Has 38' of total drill stem. 7/8" nominal diameter core.

I've never run one, never seen one run. The gentleman I got it from never ran it either, it was his brother's machine. His brother passed away recently, which is how it came into my possession.

From what I understand from reading online, the water flow should be about where the effluent coming out of the core hole is fairly warm and about the consistency of buttermilk. Does that sound about right to folks?

Now, pulling that stem out of the hole. I'm guessing the motor should be running at near idle speed to keep the drill stem turning to aid in pulling it out. I'll need to build a frame with pulleys to hold the motor's weight while it's pulled out.

So we pull the motor up high enough that we can get to the next section of drill stem under it. Shut down the motor so that we can disconnect the top stem and then thread the still mostly recessed stem in the bore hole to pull it out.

How in Sam Hill do you keep the drill stem still in the bore hole from falling back down into it? The stem pieces I have don't have any thing to pin it or hold it in place, just smooth pipe. I've seen a video of a truck-based rig that had some kind of ground-level clamp, but my drill didn't come with anything like that.

Any recommendations or ideas how it's done? I don't plan on drilling holes a full 40' down, but if the urge should strike to go further than one 5' piece, I'd like to have my ducks in a row.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Foot Clamp (Rod Holder, Rod Clamp)

Good thing they are small or you'll end up looking like Popeye in a few weeks. Pulling slips by hand sucks a bag of rocks.

 

[Mad Machinist]

My mind must be slipping since I forgot these. Take two of these with you also. You'll thank me later.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Sorry had to find something else for you while I was thinking about it.

As far as the temp. of the water, it should be no more than luke warm, preferably colder but that is up to you on how much water you want to take. The water both lubricates and cools the bit. Heat is the enemy of a coring bit. For the "color and consistency" of the water, again, that is up to you, but it should be fairly thin and flow easily. If the "cuttings" build up around the bit, it will build heat, and heat will destroy the bit.

It is all up to you on how much water you want to take with you.

Couple of ideas for you.

 

[kcm]

Have never drilled for minerals, but grew up in south Texas, in the middle of oil refineries and derrick building. You could make a simple clamp out of 4x4's and using a manual hydraulic clamping system. I've read that some hydraulic bottle jacks work well even in a horizontal position, but this would certainly put one of those to the test. I'd probably go with a manual power pack unit, such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/Torin-T70401-Porta-Power-Carry/dp/B000OQ3Y62/?tag=treasurenet01-20

Clamp your two 4x4's together, then using a hole saw, drill a hole the same size or slightly smaller than the OD of the drill pipe. Unclamp the 4x4's, then line each hole half with rubber for extra grip. Hinge one end of the 4x4's together, then use the hydraulic porta power unit to clamp the drill pipe while attaching or removing sections.

If you're drilling location is on bedrock, one of the 4x4 sides (the fixed side) could have a lag bolt running through near each end. Then could use a cordless hammer drill to drill holes that the protruding lag bolts would fit down into. This would effectively lock the clamp in place so it couldn't accidentally turn. Don't know if this might be necessary, but...just thinking.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Here's little Pepe' running a few hours ago.



What's the wear look like on this bit? Ready to be replaced? I've got two about the same shape. 7/8" nominal core, 1/4" wall diameter.





The spot I most want to drill is a beautiful gossan outcrop that is a royal pain in the rear end to get to. It sits somewhat hidden in a box canyon off the head of a minor wash. The canyon has a twist in it so you can't see the gossan unless you come down on it from over one of the slopes to the west. Those climbs are not easy either. Really the only way to find it is via Google Earth but it's hidden enough that unless you're slowly scanning the ground pretty close up you won't notice it.

It's been dug out a little on one side. This is the photo of it the day I climbed the south ridge and saw it.



Random photos of the surface mineralogy.









Limonite.



What looks like botryoidal hematite in a contact zone in the main outcrop. There was a small crack in the face that an ant crawled out of while I was looking it over a few weeks later. Took a hammer and chisel to it and then blasted into this little cavity. I can't reach all the way to the back of it. Its' very smooth. Couldn't get a sample out of the good stuff.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Have never drilled for minerals, but grew up in south Texas, in the middle of oil refineries and derrick building. You could make a simple clamp out of 4x4's and using a manual hydraulic clamping system. I've read that some hydraulic bottle jacks work well even in a horizontal position, but this would certainly put one of those to the test. I'd probably go with a manual power pack unit, such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/Torin-T70401-Porta-Power-Carry/dp/B000OQ3Y62/?tag=treasurenet01-20

Clamp your two 4x4's together, then using a hole saw, drill a hole the same size or slightly smaller than the OD of the drill pipe. Unclamp the 4x4's, then line each hole half with rubber for extra grip. Hinge one end of the 4x4's together, then use the hydraulic porta power unit to clamp the drill pipe while attaching or removing sections.

If you're drilling location is on bedrock, one of the 4x4 sides (the fixed side) could have a lag bolt running through near each end. Then could use a cordless hammer drill to drill holes that the protruding lag bolts would fit down into. This would effectively lock the clamp in place so it couldn't accidentally turn. Don't know if this might be necessary, but...just thinking.

You came up with something right there. I've got a 1 1/8" drill bit for the cordless rotary hammer. Get a 4x4, drill that hole through it, cut it open so it'll open like a clam and spray it with a coat of bedliner so it'll grip that pipe. Hinge it, use a good C clamp to hold it clamped to the pipe while we're working on it.

South Texas? Hmm. Can't say that I've ever hunted around Crystal City, Three Rivers before Choke Canyon, Freer, or Cotulla.

Another outcrop I'm really wanting to get at. Unfreaking touched.



Found this spot while running with my tail tucked under my legs from a nasty thunderstorm. One of the nastiest storms I've had to ride out. Ended up with a sprained ankle and a $900 truck repair bill from having to outrun a flash flood. Photo from a week later.



I got down in this gully to avoid the lightning (ever had the hair on the back of your neck and arms standing up from all the electricity in the air?) and found this trail of broken rock. You have to have three points of contact to keep from falling. Pretty steep.



A few pieces I brought home on another day.

 

[kcm]

Actually, I was thinking to clamp (2) 4x4's together, then drill through the seam where the two boards meet. Would be AWFUL to have one of the boards break on you while holding your drill rod up out of the hole. ...You'd be sayin' buh-bye real fast!!

For hinging the 2 wood pieces together, you "could" be conventional and use some type of metal hinge, but I think I'd be a little more creative (and old-fashioned ) and try to find me a piece of baler belting that would wrap over one end of the boards and attach with screws and/or nails to the outer sides of the boards. Baler belting is basically the same belting they used in the old days of early tractors, when the PTO was a large pulley sticking out of the side or front of the engine. Remember seeing old machinery and sawmills being run with those long belts? Well, they still make the stuff, and BOY does it work great!! Is waterproof, would provide enough give to ensure that the hydraulics could never rip the clamp apart, etc.

I'm actually going to be buying some next time we're in town. Found out a couple months ago that my right leg is 1.5" shorter than the left, which is aggravating an old, old ankle injury. Going to use some belting to build up the tread on my boots. Is for sale by the foot locally, so let me know if you need a few feet. I forget the price - I think the 4" width is $2.99/foot, which is cheaper than ANYTHING i could find online!! Is a canvas-based belt material, but doesn't come in a looped belt. Farmers have to buy an end kit to make the belt round. Used on many newer hay balers. I say "many" and not "all", as I seem to remember hearing about a newer baler that made the switch to other means than belts - but even that may have been old news as of when I read it.

EDIT - Could also use some of the flat belting to line the clamp rather than rubber. Would serve the same purpose.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Actually, I was thinking to clamp (2) 4x4's together, then drill through the seam where the two boards meet. Would be AWFUL to have one of the boards break on you while holding your drill rod up out of the hole. ...You'd be sayin' buh-bye real fast!!

For hinging the 2 wood pieces together, you "could" be conventional and use some type of metal hinge, but I think I'd be a little more creative (and old-fashioned ) and try to find me a piece of baler belting that would wrap over one end of the boards and attach with screws and/or nails to the outer sides of the boards. Baler belting is basically the same belting they used in the old days of early tractors, when the PTO was a large pulley sticking out of the side or front of the engine. Remember seeing old machinery and sawmills being run with those long belts? Well, they still make the stuff, and BOY does it work great!! Is waterproof, would provide enough give to ensure that the hydraulics could never rip the clamp apart, etc.

I'm actually going to be buying some next time we're in town. Found out a couple months ago that my right leg is 1.5" shorter than the left, which is aggravating an old, old ankle injury. Going to use some belting to build up the tread on my boots. Is for sale by the foot locally, so let me know if you need a few feet. I forget the price - I think the 4" width is $2.99/foot, which is cheaper than ANYTHING i could find online!! Is a canvas-based belt material, but doesn't come in a looped belt. Farmers have to buy an end kit to make the belt round. Used on many newer hay balers. I say "many" and not "all", as I seem to remember hearing about a newer baler that made the switch to other means than belts - but even that may have been old news as of when I read it.

EDIT - Could also use some of the flat belting to line the clamp rather than rubber. Would serve the same purpose.

This is one of the few times I wouldn't play around trying to make something. Try "fishing" for a dropped or broken drill rod and you'll understand what I mean. Even for a Hilti style core drill the rod isn't cheap. Around $50 for a 47" extension. Dropping a few of those and a core bit down a hole would ruin your day real quick like.

 

[Mad Machinist]

SaltwaterServr,

Just down the road from me. BIG gossans.

 

[kcm]

This is one of the few times I wouldn't play around trying to make something. Try "fishing" for a dropped or broken drill rod and you'll understand what I mean. Even for a Hilti style core drill the rod isn't cheap. Around $50 for a 47" extension. Dropping a few of those and a core bit down a hole would ruin your day real quick like.

You're absolutely right - losing drill rod down the hole would definitely not be a happy thing. However, I can't even fathom the thought that (2) 4x4's, each one 3.5" thick, could share half of a 1 1/2" hole, then line the wood with something like rubber or, as I mentioned baler belting, then clamp the whole thing together with 6-8 tones of force. I can't even imagine that ever NOT working. He says he has 38' or so of drill rod. A setup like this would easily hold 100' of 2" drill rod. Don't know what the total capacity would be, but this would most definitely work.

 

[Mad Machinist]

You're absolutely right - losing drill rod down the hole would definitely not be a happy thing. However, I can't even fathom the thought that (2) 4x4's, each one 3.5" thick, could share half of a 1 1/2" hole, then line the wood with something like rubber or, as I mentioned baler belting, then clamp the whole thing together with 6-8 tones of force. I can't even imagine that ever NOT working. He says he has 38' or so of drill rod. A setup like this would easily hold 100' of 2" drill rod. Don't know what the total capacity would be, but this would most definitely work.

By no means do I mean to say this wouldn't work and it probably would work just fine. I just know what it is like to lose 200+ feet of FULL SIZE core rod down a hole. I had my own coring rig for awhile and trying to explain to the wife why I had to buy 200 feet of new drill rod wasn't a fun experience nor was it cheap.

Mining is always about weighing the risks and trying to beat the odds. Sometimes I like to have the odds in my favor.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

SaltwaterServr,

Just down the road from me. BIG gossans.

That thar could keep a feller busy for a few days.

I never did explain, I was putting those pictures up last night because there's no way to get a drilling rig up there unless you pack it in or hire a helicopter. No water either. Both of those sets of photos are on the same mountain, and there's two more spots in the same dike complex that have fantastic mineralization. If you come in from the north on my spots, there's an hour ride round trip by ATV to a well. From the south, about the same. The hike up to each is 90 minutes. Once I get the drill up there, I might have to leave it a few weekends stashed away real good so me and the mining partner can get on up there and grab some cores.

There's a nasty Africanized bee hive in one dig out that would make a nice watch dog for it. They've chased me down the hill more than a dozen times already.

 

[kcm]

By no means do I mean to say this wouldn't work and it probably would work just fine. I just know what it is like to lose 200+ feet of FULL SIZE core rod down a hole. I had my own coring rig for awhile and trying to explain to the wife why I had to buy 200 feet of new drill rod wasn't a fun experience nor was it cheap.

Mining is always about weighing the risks and trying to beat the odds. Sometimes I like to have the odds in my favor.

Yes, when talking that kind of weight, you definitely wanna invest in appropriate equipment for the task. ...After that fiasco, I'd hazard to guess that the wife didn't want to be included for a while with "any" drill rod you happened to be working with.

 

[kcm]

....and get your mind out of the gutter!!

 

[hvacker]

I know some have used a pipe wrench on the pipe and across the well casing but that's too risky for me.
I would visit a local well driller and ask what they use.
Some of those wells go deep. Today many use PVC pipe but used to be steel pipe. Heavy at 400'.

 

[Mad Machinist]

That thar could keep a feller busy for a few days.

I never did explain, I was putting those pictures up last night because there's no way to get a drilling rig up there unless you pack it in or hire a helicopter. No water either. Both of those sets of photos are on the same mountain, and there's two more spots in the same dike complex that have fantastic mineralization. If you come in from the north on my spots, there's an hour ride round trip by ATV to a well. From the south, about the same. The hike up to each is 90 minutes. Once I get the drill up there, I might have to leave it a few weekends stashed away real good so me and the mining partner can get on up there and grab some cores.

There's a nasty Africanized bee hive in one dig out that would make a nice watch dog for it. They've chased me down the hill more than a dozen times already.

It's actually one of a system of gossans that cover about 4 miles in length. All private property and hell to get a rig into.

On something like that, I would buy a core bit set up for dry use, take one or two rods with me, and travel as light as possible. If nothing showed up in the first 10 feet or so, I would bail on it. If something interesting showed up, then I would consider finding a way to get bigger equipment in there. I always wanted to set up a small core rig on a UTV or something like that. Nothing big just maybe something like this:

Make the bottom adjustable for angle with an attached foot plate for the foot operated slips I posted and you'd be able to hit a lot of places with minimal impact.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Yes, when talking that kind of weight, you definitely wanna invest in appropriate equipment for the task. ...After that fiasco, I'd hazard to guess that the wife didn't want to be included for a while with "any" drill rod you happened to be working with.

Nope, even worse then that. I had to put up with the "your a dumba$$" look when it came to anything mining related for a little while.

 

[kcm]

Nope, even worse then that. I had to put up with the "your a dumba$$" look when it came to anything mining related for a little while.

You got off lucky, my friend! Only the "your a dumba$$" look?? Very lucky. ...VERY lucky!!

 

[Mad Machinist]

You got off lucky, my friend! Only the "your a dumba$$" look?? Very lucky. ...VERY lucky!!

It was a tax write off anyhow. I got the "your a dumba$$" look because I knew better than to do what I did, I was just pushing the limits to see if the rig would take it.