Million ounces <--- Say what????

[Deleted member 54237]

I like the map markmar...

Roy

You wrote : " Waltz had stated that the ore vein crops out in the canyon well below his mine, which he had covered up - perhaps he was counting this as well as his smallish workings, in which case he may have been "guessing" the amount not just showing inside his mine but a whole vein reaching down into the canyon as "showing". "

I believe Waltz said the truth about the ore vein which crops out below his mine . and this could be seen in his map .

View attachment 984871

But this is not a single map ... Are four maps in one .


View attachment 984876 View attachment 984874




View attachment 984877 View attachment 984878



The word " ORO " is the vein below his mine and the other landmarks are real and are near his mine .
I post an aerial picture with the landmark near the mine , for those who are interested .

View attachment 984885

I wish some day to find your " lost " mine .

 

[Springfield]

... Disrespecting me is no way to advantage your side of any debate. Ever heard of "ad hominem" and fallacies in general? That may fly with some, but NOT the better...

Fallacious reasoning is the norm when attempting to debate with 'true believers', whose beliefs can be passionately defended, but cannot be demonstrated to the satisfaction of 'the prudent man'. If you continue here, be prepared to have your rational arguments ignored, deflected by further fallacious arguments, or downright ridiculed. It's frustrating, but understandable - many folks have years invested in chasing this rumor and humans in a comfort zone are loathe to leave it. You've merely realized, 'the emporer wears no clothes'.

 

[Oroblanco]

Fallacious reasoning is the norm when attempting to debate with 'true believers', whose beliefs can be passionately defended, but cannot be demonstrated to the satisfaction of 'the prudent man'. If you continue here, be prepared to have your rational arguments ignored, deflected by further fallacious arguments, or downright ridiculed. It's frustrating, but understandable - many folks have years invested in chasing this rumor and humans in a comfort zone are loathe to leave it. You've merely realized, 'the emporer wears no clothes'.

Oh my goodness, the "true believers" - by which I presume you mean to imply glassy eyed, drooling fanatics whose beliefs have little or no basis in fact, whom will not see reason due to their delusionary condition.

I tried to point out to Conceptualized that the LDM is indeed SPARSE for documents and facts you can prove beyond all debate. This is the nature of treasure hunting. It is not a criminal case being prosecuted in a courtroom. They are "legends" just as the very title of this board states. We can try to sift the wheat from the chaff, but the actual solid proof(s) people like you demand, simply do not exist. Frankly with your beliefs and attitude, I wonder why you bother to debate with the thundering sheep herd of true believers, as you see them, or I should say US.

At the other end of that spectrum we have the naysayers, the sour-grapes crowd whom have failed to find a lost treasure (or more than one) so become convinced that none exist and want everyone to hold that opinion, and then there are the seeming skeptics whose real purpose is to DISCOURAGE others from hunting lost treasures, or to mislead them, as they do not want the competition. I wonder where you stand.

As to the million ounces which was the title of this topic, there is no proof that it is true, nor is there any proof that it is false. Judge for yourself.

Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Oh my goodness, the "true believers" - by which I presume you mean to imply glassy eyed, drooling fanatics whose beliefs have little or no basis in fact, whom will not see reason due to their delusionary condition.

I tried to point out to Conceptualized that the LDM is indeed SPARSE for documents and facts you can prove beyond all debate. This is the nature of treasure hunting. It is not a criminal case being prosecuted in a courtroom. They are "legends" just as the very title of this board states. We can try to sift the wheat from the chaff, but the actual solid proof(s) people like you demand, simply do not exist. Frankly with your beliefs and attitude, I wonder why you bother to debate with the thundering sheep herd of true believers, as you see them, or I should say US.

At the other end of that spectrum we have the naysayers, the sour-grapes crowd whom have failed to find a lost treasure (or more than one) so become convinced that none exist and want everyone to hold that opinion, and then there are the seeming skeptics whose real purpose is to DISCOURAGE others from hunting lost treasures, or to mislead them, as they do not want the competition. I wonder where you stand.

As to the million ounces which was the title of this topic, there is no proof that it is true, nor is there any proof that it is false. Judge for yourself.

Oroblanco

When you say 'treasure hunter', I assume you mean someone actually attempting to get to the truth of - perhaps even locate - a target, and not just someone versed in the lore who likes to tell campfire stories. There is a difference - the former demanding a significant investment in time, money and effort.

The statements I've made re the LDM (those that seem to upset you so much) are directed at serious truth seekers and are intended encourage them (and you) to approach the subject with a rational mind and an honest appreciation of human nature - 'What do you believe and why do you believe it?' 'People like me', either by birth, training or both, want the 'right answer', or as close to it as we can get.

Those who know me would hardly call me a treasure 'naysayer' - quite the contrary, in fact. A review of my posts on this website ought to make that clear. If you think I'm trying to discourage LDM seekers to make more room for myself, maybe you are delusional. Don't worry - I've got other fish to fry.

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield, I did not directly call you any of those things. As to your statement:

The statements I've made re the LDM (those that seem to upset you so much) are directed at serious truth seekers and are intended encourage them

It is hard to find anything other than criticism and skepticism in your posts on this topic, not to say cynicism which some posts border on. Considering you have been a treasure hunter for decades, your attitude has been puzzling to say the least. Also, I am far from upset, just tired.
Oroblanco

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Oh my goodness, the "true believers" - by which I presume you mean to imply glassy eyed, drooling fanatics whose beliefs have little or no basis in fact, whom will not see reason due to their delusionary condition.

I tried to point out to Conceptualized that the LDM is indeed SPARSE for documents and facts you can prove beyond all debate. This is the nature of treasure hunting. It is not a criminal case being prosecuted in a courtroom. They are "legends" just as the very title of this board states. We can try to sift the wheat from the chaff, but the actual solid proof(s) people like you demand, simply do not exist. Frankly with your beliefs and attitude, I wonder why you bother to debate with the thundering sheep herd of true believers, as you see them, or I should say US.

At the other end of that spectrum we have the naysayers, the sour-grapes crowd whom have failed to find a lost treasure (or more than one) so become convinced that none exist and want everyone to hold that opinion, and then there are the seeming skeptics whose real purpose is to DISCOURAGE others from hunting lost treasures, or to mislead them, as they do not want the competition. I wonder where you stand.

As to the million ounces which was the title of this topic, there is no proof that it is true, nor is there any proof that it is false. Judge for yourself.

Oroblanco

Here is your fallacy: "nor is there any proof that it is false"

There is no logic in proving things false. Some can be, and that helps, but it is in no way any logical argument to impute the task of proving a negative on to anyone. Logic and the scientific method test a null hypothesis and find it to be true or do not. False has no place.

Until you prove it, you have nothing but speculation.

Imagine designing the experiment to prove it false.

Get back to us when you have it.

Yours is the Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. (wiki)

Now go spanks yourself, say 3 hail mary's and I don't ever want to hear you do that again. K? :P

 

[Oroblanco]

Here is your fallacy: "nor is there any proof that it is false"

There is no logic in proving things false. Some can be, and that helps, but it is in no way any logical argument to impute the task of proving a negative on to anyone. Logic and the scientific method test a null hypothesis and find it to be true or do not. False has no place.

Until you prove it, you have nothing but speculation.

Imagine designing the experiment to prove it false.

Get back to us when you have it.

Yours is the Argument from ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam), also known as appeal to ignorance (in which ignorance stands for "lack of evidence to the contrary"), is a fallacy in informal logic. (wiki)

Now go spanks yourself, say 3 hail mary's and I don't ever want to hear you do that again. K? :P

Still baiting for an argument? I begin to see why no one rushed to answer your questions.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Still baiting for an argument? I begin to see why no one rushed to answer your questions.

Again trying to impute on to me. No bait, no argument. It is not arguable amigo.

 

[Oroblanco]

Again trying to impute on to me. No bait, no argument. It is not arguable amigo.

I don't consider you my amigo, having tried the friendly approach with you rather unsuccessfully. What is it that you wish to get from this? I am all done answering questions from you, and you are sure welcome to continue baiting to your heart's content.

 

[releventchair]

A million ounces is the claim. So? Be skeptical by why insult someones claim without being able to disprove it. If a skeptic used troy ounces it would suggest some experience and not just looking for something to be arguing about like its something they have to do for some odd reason.
Its a million till proven otherwise by means other than skepticism.

 

[Springfield]

"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence and always rejects the greater miracle."

The burden of proof is on those who make the claim.

 

[releventchair]

Yet great fish located in a body water are followed by the estimate of size regardless of scoffers. Yield a moot point till filleted. Proof of the fish is arguable to the listener but the claim stands regardless. Size confirmation opportunity by nonbelievers would have to follow a possession in their presence so why argue it if its not located again? The credibility of the story,or the estimate of size,or all of it always going to be disagreed with by some.. One mans golden Nessie is an others passionate denial. Don,t fish for fish in lochs without fish is all. Worry about size after the catch.
How much gold is in Arizona still? Argue its volume all you want. Size of potatoes, what size potatoes?Claims,just claims. l.o.l. People drown fishing regardless of why they chose a site though we would not have them in such a situation.We need to choose our endeavors carefully and be prepared to deal with the risks. Someone else s claims are just that but does not mean they did not find something somewhere and covered their backtrail with illusion to preserve their source. The prize may not be worth the pursuit of someone elses claim,I get that but trying to backtrack Waltz suits some so no disparagement from me. Heck were I there why not? There,s fish somewhere.Here reported potato becomes here potato for some.http://www.today.com/home/buyer-might-strike-gold-or-ghosts-arizonas-octave-mine-2D79686949

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

Could the LDM have been found and been mined in secret for years now ? It would make sense to keep it quiet. The found gold could be sold all over the U.S. in small mounts to not tip off the area it was found in.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Yet great fish located in a body water are followed by the estimate of size regardless of scoffers. Yield a moot point till filleted. Proof of the fish is arguable to the listener but the claim stands regardless. Size confirmation opportunity by nonbelievers would have to follow a possession in their presence so why argue it if its not located again? The credibility of the story,or the estimate of size,or all of it always going to be disagreed with by some.. One mans golden Nessie is an others passionate denial. Don,t fish for fish in lochs without fish is all. Worry about size after the catch.
How much gold is in Arizona still? Argue its volume all you want. Size of potatoes, what size potatoes?Claims,just claims. l.o.l. People drown fishing regardless of why they chose a site though we would not have them in such a situation.We need to choose our endeavors carefully and be prepared to deal with the risks. Someone else s claims are just that but does not mean they did not find something somewhere and covered their backtrail with illusion to preserve their source. The prize may not be worth the pursuit of someone elses claim,I get that but trying to backtrack Waltz suits some so no disparagement from me. Heck were I there why not? There,s fish somewhere.Here reported potato becomes here potato for some.Buyer might strike gold, or ghosts, in Arizona's Octave mine - Home - TODAY.com

LOL @ the long way to say very little :P

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Could the LDM have been found and been mined in secret for years now ? It would make sense to keep it quiet. The found gold could be sold all over the U.S. in small mounts to not tip off the area it was found in.

Number of small amounts = 10^6/(ounces in each small amount).

Qty of ore that needs to be sneaked out of the supes at 10% gold (fantastic % on average) = 10^7 ounces.

Number of stealth trips (successfully undetected ) 10^7 ounces/(how much you can sneak at a time).

Shakespeare said words, words words. I say Numbers.

 

[markmar]

Could the LDM have been found and been mined in secret for years now ? It would make sense to keep it quiet. The found gold could be sold all over the U.S. in small mounts to not tip off the area it was found in.

Dave

Could been but IMO didn't happen .

 

[releventchair]

LOL @ the long way to say very little :P

Kind of matches your math.
A given site can only have a finite amount of gold. While it is unseen and untouched only an estimate can be given. You are disputing an estimate. Not from Pa. are you?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Kind of matches your math.
A given site can only have a finite amount of gold. While it is unseen and untouched only an estimate can be given. You are disputing an estimate. Not from Pa. are you?

Estimate, can you show me a copy?

 

[releventchair]

This is where things fall apart. Even if Jacob was working some mine somewhere ...

The supposed claim as to its content seems absurd.

Let us math this.

Density of quarts is 4466.7 pound per cubic yard.

Assume the vein has 1% gold (pretty rich right?) Comes out to 20 pounds per ton or 9072 grams per ton.

Forget about the volume of all that gold, and think about only the volume of quarts with it, the 99% by weight of the vein. For a million oz gold you need 1520 Cubic yards of quarts. And that is just to accommodate Waltz's "known reserves claim" of what he can see, forget buried parts and where it pinches out and all that. Consider an 18" vein and figure how much face he had to have exposed.

Go ahead and assume it was 10% on average, now we have 'only' 152 cubic yards of vein. Still a pretty big exposure. And that is just what is in sight? The shear magnitude of this and no one can find it?

Even if Jacob had a mine rich in gold, it was no million ounces he could see and catalog.

Color me skeptical about this part. If LDM exists it is some far lessor lode.

Here is an estimate,but substitute quartz for quarts. Similar to yours but it is an example of an estimate.
Your turn to answer a question still.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Here is an estimate,but substitute quartz for quarts. Similar to yours but it is an example of an estimate.
Your turn to answer a question still.

Hey, you found a typo, I award you a gold star to stick on your forehead

And thanks for pointing it out I edited the OP to correct the spelling.

Now, do you have some sort of point?