Early naval dandy button-need help dating

[Darby]

Found this yesterday at our "New old site". Its the fifth military button found on this site. Any help dating it will be greatly appreciated. No back marks unfortunately.







Also dug this cuff button which is a little different from the flat buttons usually dug with the eagle and raised rim on the back.




Also dug the thimble and a gold gilted flat button that at first had me thinking id dug a gold coin!! It's thick and rang up like a coin...no stem so it felt like a coin too!

View attachment 1051621





Thanks for looking and hope everyone's having great day.

 

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[MichiganMan]

WoW, that's a really nice button, front and back. Great patina too. 1796 through War of 1812?

 

[ATpro5]

Wow amazing button!!!!! I would also guess around the war of 1812. There are some button experts on here that'll give you a positive ID shortly.

 

[JerV3]

That's a great button with beautiful patina

 

[Carolina Tom]

The patina on that button is really nice. You always find nice old buttons! Congrats.

 

[dirtlooter]

really nice buttons! liked them all

 

[screwynewy]

Looks like you and Matt found similar buttons:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...0-s-navy-button-few-mor-buttons-new-site.html

 

[Darby]

Thanks Michiganman and Atpro5. I was thinking around 1812 also.

JerV3 thanks. I like the patina look too. Learned my lesson early about cleaning buttons too much!!

Thanks Carolina Tom...nothing could be finer than mding in Carolina!

Thanks dirtlooter. I like digging any buttons but super excited when a military shows up!

Yep screwynewy Matts looks very similar. Thanks

 

[Steve in PA]

That is a real beauty!

 

[Darby]

That is a real beauty!

Thanks Steve. One of my favorite finds so far.

 

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

EXCELLENT !

 

[bootybandit]

Beautiful button!

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I don't have my button book with me and if anyone does please look into this and I will ask TheCannonballGuy to chime in.. Typically a eagle on the back of the button indicates that it is American made - after the War of 1812 the U.S. started manufacturing their own buttons and putting a Eagle on the back of the button. Most buttons with a Eagle on the back of them indicate post war of 1812. However, I have not seen this backmark on this Naval button before - the ones I have seen and collected have a plain back-mark or "Gilt" or something in that nature. I will page CannonBallGuy and see if he can help I.D.

 

[Darby]

Thanks Rick and bootybandit.

 

[Darby]

I don't have my button book with me and if anyone does please look into this and I will ask TheCannonballGuy to chime in.. Typically a eagle on the back of the button indicates that it is American made - after the War of 1812 the U.S. started manufacturing their own buttons and putting a Eagle on the back of the button. Most buttons with a Eagle on the back of them indicate post war of 1812. However, I have not seen this backmark on this Naval button before - the ones I have seen and collected have a plain back-mark or "Gilt" or something in that nature. I will page CannonBallGuy and see if he can help I.D.

The naval button has no back mark. The plain cuff button is the one with the eagle on the back. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for your reply.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

The naval button has no back mark. The plain cuff button is the one with the eagle on the back. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for your reply.

Oh my bad indeed, These 60 hour work weeks will play with your mind, didn't see the part about it having no backmark was looking @ the photos and kind speed reading!!! ahh - awesome find! awesome find!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

At HutSiteDigger's request, I'm answering. Your specific US Navy 1-piece brass button is not shown in either the Albert or Tice books on American military buttons. Some in Albert are similar, but there's no exact match-up for yours. It's important to note that the anchor's rope curves through the anchor and also below it, AND the eagle is surrounded by 16 stars. In general, on ONE-PIECE brass US Navy buttons the ones with 16 stars were made later than those with 13 stars. That, in combination with lacking any backmark, suggests to me that this button was made in Britain within a few years after the end of the War Of 1812, when there was much American postwar "resentment" against Britain -- and its products. However, there is a possibility that it was manufactured in America during the war, by a maker who lacked the capability of producing a backmark die. Sorry, certainty is impossible in this case, because you found a variation which isn't in any of the button-books AND has no backmark of any kind, therefore, "solid" time-dating information about is unavailable.

 

[CASPER-2]

AWESOME BUTTON

 

[park pirate]

Sweet button, very nice condition..

 

[CRUSADER]

At HutSiteDigger's request, I'm answering. Your specific US Navy 1-piece brass button is not shown in either the Albert or Tice books on American military buttons. Some in Albert are similar, but there's no exact match-up for yours. It's important to note that the anchor's rope curves through the anchor and also below it, AND the eagle is surrounded by 16 stars. In general, on ONE-PIECE brass US Navy buttons the ones with 16 stars were made later than those with 13 stars. That, in combination with lacking any backmark, suggests to me that this button was made in Britain within a few years after the end of the War Of 1812, when there was much American postwar "resentment" against Britain -- and its products. However, there is a possibility that it was manufactured in America during the war, by a maker who lacked the capability of producing a backmark die. Sorry, certainty is impossible in this case, because you found a variation which isn't in any of the button-books AND has no backmark of any kind, therefore, "solid" time-dating information about is unavailable.

So can we conclude that at the time of publications of said books this was a rare enough button to be over looked. ie. it was or still is rare.