1873 Kingman/Canyon Station Stagecoach Robbery Questions

[Old Dog]

Easy ....
Just figure 1 oz for every $20.
Divide the max by 20 and divide the sub total by 16. (oz per lb)

OD

 

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[Arizona Bob]

So if it was all double eagles, and assuming negligible wear & tear, then 265.3695428 pounds?

(Note 1: 1 double eagle = 33.43600 grams = 1.17942019 ounces.
Then $72,000 / $20 = 3600 double eagles.
So 3600 double eagles * 1.17942019 ounces = 4245.912684 ounces.
And finally 4245.91264 ounces / 16 ounces = 265.3695428 pounds.
But, since we don't really know the coin composition of the "payroll",
or how many stops the stage made along the way, I'll stick with my
wild a$$ guestimate of 250 lbs.)

(Note 2: I'm not an accountant, but I have owned several businesses in my lifetime. I have learned
thru being audited not to trust round dollar figures, especially like $72,000. They almost
never happen in monetary transactions, just examine your own checking statement to see.)

 

[Old Dog]

The one thing I was surprised to find out about a lot of robberies was that the robbers also got credit for most of the natural and other losses the bank had if there were any.

You also have to figure that they would have had to have two pack animals to carry that much gold very far, and even then they wouldn't have been able to move too fast.

I have put packs on not just horses but burros and mules also and they don't like to more than walk when loaded.

A bit of trivia
An avoirdupois pound is 16 ounces
A troy pound is 12 ounces

OD

 

[Arizona Bob]

You're right Old Dog. Troy vs avp. Yeah, I was calculatin' for the lighter load. At 12 oz per pound, the load is heavier, which kinda makes this legend even more difficult to believe.

A bit o' the "neighbors" trivia: They think the bandits didn't ride-in from Prescott, just days ahead of the stagecoach, but were local thugs who robbed victims based upon opportunity. Legend has two bandits with two horses. No quick get-away for them if each horse is loaded with rider & lots of gold, in my opinion. The Bandits may have been just as shocked to find that much gold on the stage as the coach riders were to being robbed.

Some of my observations:

Like my old Army buddies used to say, "Intel doesn't get good until there's boots on the ground." I have been in & around the area of Canyon Station recently. If you are in the hills, you can't walk or ride a straight line for five feet in any direction without hitting a pine tree unless you are in a dry wash. The scrub pines (juniper?) are anywhere from 4 to 8 feet high, fairly dense in population, and pretty much limit your view in any direction if you are standing on the ground. Once you come down from the hills, the further away from the hills you get, the easier it becomes to travel. The problem with travelling along the lower desert is that you can be seen from a long way off.

Were the desert conditions in 1873 similar to what they are now? I think they are close to 1873 conditions, considering 130+ years of whatever earthquakes, floods, etc. have occurred.

Having been in the area, I have seen several "natural" ways I could hide the loot quickly- none of which involves deep digging, well dumping, or secret caves.

Below is a photo typical of the general area. I'm 6ft tall, standing on the ground, shooting straight ahead towards the hills:

 

[Old Dog]

Is there any way of getting permission to do some hiking through that property?
Don't get caught going where it is posted. Trespass laws are sketchy at best and can cause you and anyone who comes in after you a lot of heartache.

Be very careful my friend.

Maybe if you explained that you wanted to do a ground search of the area with an MD.
Because of traffic using the springs in the 19th century.
Don't let on about the cache you are chasing.
Always split what you find with the owner.
That would make finding the cache would make a nice payday for both of you.
All you can hope is that the owner is as honest as you are.

OD

 

[Arizona Bob]

Getting permission to hunt the area is exactly what I will do, Old Dog. I don't think the current owners will fall for any story but the truth. All the neighbors know the legend and it would be foolish to think the current owners don't. I have no problem sharing. If me and a few other fellas will be doing all the work, we wouldn't want to do a 50-50 split with the current owners... but you never know.

I would like some confirmation that an October 1873 gold shipment was actually sent from Prescott (Ft. Whipple) and/or that Ft. Mohave did not receive that particular shipment. Finding an Army report indicating the robbery took place near Canyon Station would be great, too.

If I get this kind of confirmation, I don't really need to find Macallum, although that would be nice.

 

[Arizona Bob]

File contents missing. Way to go. Come on, put them back. Jeeze. I went to the Kingman research library today. I asked for the 1886 Canyon Station folder (TR 4:33), which had to be retrieved from the vault. Well, sorry. The folder is there, but the contents are missing. Nobody seems to know anything. Thanks alot. Now I know why hardly anyone shares their search details around here...

 

[Arizona Bob]

Also, someone doesn't need to make the 1870-1880's Canyon Station tax files disappear, I already duplicated them:

 

[Old Dog]

Bob,

This is the kind of stuff we live for.

Just remember,
If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Good job on the tax files.
Let me see if I can find anything from this end.

OD

 

[Arizona Bob]

Research is gettin' harder. I was able to examine the US Census rolls (1870-1920) for the Canyon Station and Fort Whipple areas. There is only ONE spelling on all the rolls. It is McCallum. I think I may have found one of our robbers on the 1870 census roll. The timeframe is correct. The location is correct. The name appears to be correct. AND, he disappears from the census rolls of 1880-1920! (I know, he could have died or moved away.) I kinda masked some of the info whilst I'm doin' my research. See fer yerself:

 

[Old Dog]

Nice little piece of info Bob,

Don't you just love it when a legend starts to become fact?

OD

 

[Arizona Bob]

Is this the N. McCallum, age 24 (in 1870), born in Canada? (Yavapai County)? B

You seen any other McCallums in the area during 1870-ish?

I wonder why he doesn't show-up as a dead prisoner at Yuma Territorial?

Maybe you already know... and would like to share it with the rest of us!

 

[Arizona Bob]

It looks like we are using the same source! Check the newspapers if ya want to. I'll examine the Canyon Station area again this weekend. We'll meet back here Monday! Ready? BREAK!

 

[Isayhello2u]

this is just a suggestion of somthing to try
if you go to google and click on news then click on news archives
then put your search keywords . then click on suggested dates (listed on the left) to narrow results. you do get a line or two of text articles that link to a pay per view article.
google is sort of a way of browsing before buying.


http://news.google.com/archivesearch?tab=wn

 

[Arizona Bob]

Maybe it's just my computer. When I try to use the above news.google website, it shuts-down my internet access & control. Might want to be careful using this site....

 

[Arizona Bob]

Let's say I found the gold, on private property, and split it 50-50 with the current property owners.

Aside from myself and the current property owners, who else do you think might have a legal claim to the gold? Why?

 

[Old Dog]

Nobody,
But only if the two of you can keep it under your hat. LOL
But if it is on private property the government may not have any legal claim to it .

The IRS will nab you both for taxes if you want the worst of it.
Wouldn't hurt to look up what they will take as their part of the total after you split it up.

I believe their cut is taken only after you cash in on your success as it has only historical value until sold. which is something else you need to find out for sure as the laws may have changed in the last 15 years.
Research the tax and treasure trove laws.
Then make a decision

OD

 

[Arizona Bob]

Guess where I went? No idea? Okay, I'll tell you. Yuma Territorial Prison!

Guess what I got to look at? Give up? How about 3,069 inmate records!

Guess what I discovered? Doesn't matter if the inmate completed his sentence, escaped, died, or got transferred. All prisoners were accounted for!

Guess who isn't in the prisoner records?:

1. Anyone with an offense date of 1873, 1874, or even 1875! (Unless it was a previous offense served at a different prison.)

2. Anyone named (or alias) McCallum, or any spelling derivative.

3. Anyone with Crime Details which include Canyon Station, $72,000 in gold, etc.


Hmmmm! Where do I go from here?

 

[Peerless67]

dont know if this has any bearing but il post it anyway. it is not my work just something i came across



MCCALLUM, John J.
Killed May 12, 1874
Shot in the back by John MURPHY who was charged.

I'm currently researching a stage coach robbery that took place near Prescott, AZ in 1873 the only 700 1873s Silver Dollars minted that year were taken and have never been seen. Do you know what month of the year this took place and any other useful info? Thanks Jeff

This story, though fascinating, is probably is not true. There was quite a controversy at the time involving the value of silver vs. gold coinage. Congress, in its wisdom or insanity, abolished the dollar in 1873 in favor of the heftier Trade Dollar. A year later they demonetized all previous silver dollars. The silver interests and their supporters called the bill the "Crime of '73." (The dollar was restored to legal tender status on 2/28/1878, the birth year of the Morgan Dollar).

Since the 1873-S dollar was no longer current money, standard procedure would be to melt them just like other minor coinage minted prior to 1873. (The silver content of minor coins was increase in 1873, previously minted silver coins were melted as the mints received them. Arrows placed at the date signified a change in the silver content.) In any case, no 1873-S Seated Dollars seemed to have survived.

 

[Arizona Bob]

Thanks for the info, peerless67. I can't see how it will impact my search yet.

I have a couple of other things to check-out, but I feel like I am really close to calling BS on this "treasure legend".

Sorry Kingman! Another one (is soon to) bite the dust...