1875 English Penny, used as id tag. Tsgman

[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

SWR, Thanks for the info. I am in Southern Missouri. C.C. Moss was the Sheriff of Springfield Mo. around the same time as my GG Grandfather was the Sheriff of Greene Co. Mo. They would have been in the same town basically. Wild Bill came into Springfield Mo. a lot to play cards at the saloon on the square. He also ran for Sheriff once but lost by a few votes. When he lost his pocket watch to Dave Tutt in a card game he told Tutt he had better not let him catch him wearing this watch around town. He actually came to town the next day looking for Tutt. He was checking to see if he was wearing his watch, and of course he was and the rest is history. They met each other on the square. In those days it was more duel like, in that one guy would stand still and the other would take a shot. If that guy missed it was the other guy's turn. Tutt missed and Wild Bill Shot him in the heart, from around 70 yards away It was said that Bill rested his gun on his forearm and took aim and shot in that style, of course this was quite a famous gun fight and propelled Bill into his wild reputation as a fierce gunfighter. All this in turn evolved into the Texas twist draw, and speed was the mark of a great gunslinger. One of my relatives helped bail Bill out of jail. This is how we think this photo got into that family album. Bill was defended by the future Governor of Mo. John Phelps and was acquitted. From some old newspaper accounts of the entire event say Bill came to town with the intent of shooting Tutt. And they were complaining that he got away with it.

 

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[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

I brought this story back to ask how many of you knew about this story about Wild Bill and the killing of Dave Tutt? From what I have read this possibly was the first gunfight of this type, You remember, like on Gunsmoke Matt Dillon always ended up on main street in a fast draw against a bad guy. Supposedly this fight by Wild Bill and Tutt started a new trend of gunfighting. That evolved into the fast draw style. Anyway I wanted to ask that question because it supposedly all started in Springfield. Mo. Thanks Tsgman

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

I am not sure if that was the first public gunfight , because duels were fought many times previous , but to call some one out into the street ....that might have been a first..... in a book called
Otero, Miguel, My Life on the Frontier 1864-1882 PUB.1936, it states that gunfights were not common in that nature until this event in Springfield and it all began with....you guessed it ....a fight over a woman! It says Tutt also stole Wild Bills pocket watch and brazenly bragged around town that he would strut up and down Mains St wearing his enemy's watch.......and Wild Bill wouldnt be able to do anything about it.......evidentally he strutted....but not for long....Tutts bullet missed and Wild Bills went straight through Tutts heart.....

 

[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Gypsy, I think the Tutt's were used to getting what they wanted. From what I understand they came from Yellville, Ar. and they pretty much bullied the local law and citizens. Someone told me they had a big shootout with authorities in Yellville. I also read that Tutt and Bill liked the same girl. I wonder what the jury would have decided if John Phelps were not around to defend Bill in that trial. He could have been hanged. I suppose the only thing that saved him was Tutt shot first. And again I think that was the way the Tutt's did business in Yellville! Shoot first, talk second! Thanks again for the info, Tim

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

You probally saw this ..... http://www.fpcc.net/~sgrimm/davis_tutt.htm

 

[Burdie]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

As near as I can tell Wild Bill's first "public gunfight" was in 1855 Johnson County Kansas. I have seen the plaque but can't remember the unlucky guys name. Burdie

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Hickok's reputation as a gunfighter began when he killed David Tutt in the public square of Springfield on 21st July, 1865. This was the first recorded example of two men taking part in a quick-draw duel. The following month Hickok was acquitted after pleading self-defence.

Hickok moved to Kansas in 1855 and at the age of 20( he was born in 1837 which would have made him 18 at the time ?) was elected constable of Monticello. In 1861 he was working as a wagon master in Montana. On 12th July, 1861, Hickok opened fire on three unarmed men. David McCanles was killed and James Woods and James Gordon were seriously wounded and later died of their injuries.Again, this dispute stemmed over a woman!!! McCanless was angry because Wild Bill had been secretly romancing McCanles' mistress, Sarah Shull.
http://www.gigfoot.net/lol/facts/830.html

An article appeared in the St. Louis Missouri Democrat in April 1867. It included the following dialogue: "I say, Mr. Hickok, how many white men have you killed to your certain knowledge?" After a little deliberation, he replied, "I suppose I have killed considerably over a hundred." "What made you kill all those men? Did you kill them without cause or provocation?" "No, by heaven I never killed one man without good cause."

Later..at age 39 Wild Bill was shot and killed By McCall....still the romantic
Soon, his new bride would receive a letter that Bill had penned just one day before his death. Seemingly, it appears that he had a premonition of his rapidly approaching demise:

Agnes Darling, if such should be we never meet again, while firing my last shot, I will gently breathe the name of my wife---Agnes---and with wishes even for my enemies I will make the plunge and try to swim to the other shore.
The day after Hickok was killed a jury was selected to try Jack McCall. McCall claimed he had shot Wild Bill in revenge for killing his brother.In less than two hours the jury returned a not guilty verdict that evoked this comment in the local newspaper: "Should it ever be our misfortune to kill a man ... we would simply ask that our trial may take place in some of the mining camps of these hills."

McCall hung about Deadwood for several days, until a man called California Joe strongly suggested the air might be bad for McCall's health. McCall got the message and believing he'd escaped punishment for his crime, he headed to Wyoming bragging to anyone who would listen that he had killed the famous Wild Bill Hickok. Less than a month later, the trial held in Deadwood was found to have had no legal basis, Deadwood being located in Indian Territory. McCall was arrested in Laramie, Wyoming on August 29, 1876, charged with the murder, and taken to Yankton, South Dakota to stand trial.

 

[jgpreston]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

THIS IS THE BEST .....FOR SURE!!!!!!!!! What a find, Tsgman!!!! What research gypsyheart!!!!! What a history lessen. Thanks for sharing, all of you.

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Still Finding stuff Tgsman....

September 13th occurred the first city election in Sprinfield after the war. The election passed off quietly, and the following was the vote:

For Mayor—Ben. Kite, 159; George C. See, 73
For Recorder—J. S. Bigbee, 121; A. Vangreuder, 110
For City Attorney—James K. Waddill, 122; J. H. Creighton, 102.
For City Marshal—Charles C. Moss, 107; J. B. Hickok ("Wild Bill"), 63; James R. Mays, 57; Thos. O'Neil, 3; Gott, 1.
City Council—First Ward—Jas. Vaughan, 35; James Baker, 33, J. L. French, 30; A. F. Bigbee, 9; Joseph Morris, 9; L. Bigbee, 1.
Second Ward—R. J. McElhany, 35; J. W. D. L. F. Mack, 22, James Boren, 12.
Third Ward—John B. Perkins, 41; Elisha Painter, 39; David Smith, 16; Bedford, E. Henslee, 14; John Caynor, 13; A. F. Church, 11, A. Mitchell, 4; R. S. Gott,

In the Springfield Patriot for the year 1867, we find a series of articles from the pen of Col. Wm. E. Gilmore, under the caption, "Notes of the Early Days of Springfield.............
Mr. J. was from Kentucky. He remained a citizen of Springfield for several years, residing on the corner of Campbell and West Walnut streets until about three years since, when he removed to a farm in the west part of the county, where he still works at his trade a part of the time, although over eighty years of age. His grand-daughter, Mrs. C. C. Moss, is the only one of his family now living in town

 

[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

R.J. McElhany was also in my family line. I can drive to a cemetery about 4 miles from my house and count 9 generations here of my family. My GGGG Grandmother is buried in this cemetery. She died in 1854.
We also had 4 generations of Sheriff's. Charles Baker Owen, and his son Soloman Owen, next was his son Alfred Owen. The last one was Mickey Owen. He played for the St Louis Cardinals and the Boston Red Sox. He has a few Major league records to this day. After his pro baseball career he was Sheriff of Greene Co. for 16 years. He passed away while I was in New York last summer. One of his best friends was Ted Williams.
My Father remembers Mickey coming over to visit during the winter off season. He said He sat around the wood stove and talked to my Grandfather. My Dad said it was a big deal to him because they would listen to all the ball games on the radio and Mickey was not only his 2nd cousin but a hero to him and his school friends.

 

[Detectingfreak]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Doesnt look like an english cent. But i guess thats how they made them back in the old days.

 

[PBK]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Doesnt look like an english cent. But i guess thats how they made them back in the old days.

DF, here's one from 1874. As you can see, the details match up pretty well with those remaining on Tsgman's find.

Great relic— and great research, too!

 

[lordmarcovan]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

One small correction: there is no such thing as an "English cent". The British coin you have there is a penny made under the pre-decimal monetary system. A true "cent" is a decimal coin (1/100).

Our United States coins that we call "pennies" are technically cents, not pennies. Still, the "penny" nickname for them has stuck. So many people have confused the terms "penny" and "cent" for so long that the terms are often used synonymously, when in fact they have two different meanings.

That is an awesome find- I really think it's neat to see how they made it into a tag and counterstamped it like that. Definitely a keeper!

 

[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Update, I may soon be in touch with a decendent, I will post more info soon when available, thanks, Tsgman

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Cannot wait to hear about that ....This was always one of my favorite stories here at Tnet. Hope you make contact with some kin and possibly get a picture....

 

[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Moss, Charles C, d. 03/15/1894, Plot: 24 0 1618, bur. 03/15/1894

Buried at
Springfield National Cemetery
Springfield, Greene County, Missouri


check out "Nine Months in the Infantry Service: The Civil War Journal of R.P. Matthews and Roster of the Phelps Regiment, Missouri Volunteers" edited by Jeff Patrick (Greene County Historical Society, Springfield, Mo. 1999).

"We unanimously decided to call our Regt. the "Phelps Regt." So our organization did not take a number of designation, but went on the records under the name of its commander and will stand on the pages of the nation's archives as the "Phelps Regt. Mo. Vol. Inf."

"Nine Months" at p. 49

Copies of this book were available at the Wilson's Creek NBP bookstore and through the Greene County Historical Society

I forgot to mention that the book you are referring to is the book I photographed at the top of this post. Thanks again Gypsy.

 

[ironron]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

I Agree! it is a victorian penny

 

[curbdiggercarl57]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Good going on the research, always a great feeling finding something personal.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Update, I may soon be in touch with a decendent, I will post more info soon when available, thanks, Tsgman

Update?

 

[tsgman]

Re: 1875 English cent, used as id tag. Tsgman

Not yet it turned into a dead end, but I will keep looking.