CoinHELP! said:
The big difference in price is that modern versions made for the flea market trade are usually done with a Dremel tool or something similar that's quick & easy and are often done using no-date buffalos that can be bought dirt cheap. These are all hand carved and are done using full date nickles which tells me they were most likely done back around that time or possibly done by a modern day artist but in any case, done by a pro. Back in the day they actually were carved by hobos using nothing more than a pocketknife or even sometimes just a nail. They were often swapped for a meal or a night in a flophouse and are supposed to look crudely done. These most certainly have that "look". Look again. The feather is gone and has been replaced with an ear, the profile of the noses have been changed, etc. Someone put alot of work into these and it all appears to be done by hand. $2 each is ridiculous. Please do some research before giving an opinion.kleinerschmitter said:
NHBandit said:The big difference in price is that modern versions made for the flea market trade are usually done with a Dremel tool or something similar that's quick & easy and are often done using no-date buffalos that can be bought dirt cheap. These are all hand carved and are done using full date nickles which tells me they were most likely done back around that time or possibly done by a modern day artist but in any case, done by a pro. Back in the day they actually were carved by hobos using nothing more than a pocketknife or even sometimes just a nail. They were often swapped for a meal or a night in a flophouse and are supposed to look crudely done. These most certainly have that "look". Look again. The feather is gone and has been replaced with an ear, the profile of the noses have been changed, etc. Someone put alot of work into these and it all appears to be done by hand. $2 each is ridiculous. Please do some research before giving an opinion.kleinerschmitter said:
Wow !! What an arrogant jerk. While I never claimed to be an expert on hobo nickles I have been collecting coins for 40 years and have a few hobo nickles in my collection. Have also done a bit of reading on the subject & examined many hobo nickles over the years. I based my comments on this experience, not some uneducated off the cuff statment that they "look" amature (sp). Hello.. real ones should absolutely look that way. As if they were done using a pocketknife or maybe a sharp nail. Because that's exactly how they were made. Did you even bother to read my reasons for my hypothesis in my prior post ? Alot of modern copies are done with a Dremel tool and the machine marks in the grooves can be clearly seen. This is not the case with these particular nickles. Without looking at them in person under magnification, I'm simply offering my opinion however my opinion is based on prior knowlege not just a guess like the guy you're trying to defend. As I said before, removing the feather & turning it into an ear, changing the profile of the nose, etc. are signs that it was done by a real artist (even though done crudely with no fancy power tools). Have you ever tried to carve Nickle ? It's a pretty damn hard metal or are you clueless about that as well ? Lastly the theory that being in 2x2 flips somehow has some bearing as to their legitimacy is the stupidest thing I've ever read... Pssst... you don't suppose they might have been put into them AFTER they were made do you ? OMG you don't suppose my 1802 large cent is counterfiet do you ? After all it's in a 2x2 and they weren't invented in 1802. I better have it looked at... And by the way, there are also several well known artists today who are making hobo nickles using the old techniques and doing a damn fine job of it. I never said the nickles in question were definately done in the 1930s. Just that they appeared to be professionally done in the old style rather than the current crop of flea market crap that can be bought for 5 or 10 bucks. Those modern day carvers get a pretty penny for their work and rightfully so. Without definate provinance as to who made them and when the only way to judge value is by the quality of the work & the methods used. I stand by my opinion that the $2 estimate is a joke. Have a day.1235CE said:NHBandit said:The big difference in price is that modern versions made for the flea market trade are usually done with a Dremel tool or something similar that's quick & easy and are often done using no-date buffalos that can be bought dirt cheap. These are all hand carved and are done using full date nickles which tells me they were most likely done back around that time or possibly done by a modern day artist but in any case, done by a pro. Back in the day they actually were carved by hobos using nothing more than a pocketknife or even sometimes just a nail. They were often swapped for a meal or a night in a flophouse and are supposed to look crudely done. These most certainly have that "look". Look again. The feather is gone and has been replaced with an ear, the profile of the noses have been changed, etc. Someone put alot of work into these and it all appears to be done by hand. $2 each is ridiculous. Please do some research before giving an opinion.kleinerschmitter said:
I'm sorry, what research did you do before giving your opinion?.......kleinerschmitter was giving an opinion on them looking amatuer and I couldn't agree more.....unless you happen to know some "professional" hobo's who happen to have some 2x2 flips and pen to sign their name......
HH all!
Greg
NHBandit said:1235CE said:Wow !! What an arrogant jerk. While I never claimed to be an expert on hobo nickles I have been collecting coins for 40 years and have a few hobo nickles in my collection. Have also done a bit of reading on the subject & examined many hobo nickles over the years. I based my comments on this experience, not some uneducated off the cuff statment that they "look" amature (sp). Hello.. real ones should absolutely look that way. As if they were done using a pocketknife or maybe a sharp nail. Because that's exactly how they were made. Did you even bother to read my reasons for my hypothesis in my prior post ? Alot of modern copies are done with a Dremel tool and the machine marks in the grooves can be clearly seen. This is not the case with these particular nickles. Without looking at them in person under magnification, I'm simply offering my opinion however my opinion is based on prior knowlege not just a guess like the guy you're trying to defend. As I said before, removing the feather & turning it into an ear, changing the profile of the nose, etc. are signs that it was done by a real artist (even though done crudely with no fancy power tools). Have you ever tried to carve Nickle ? It's a pretty damn hard metal or are you clueless about that as well ? Lastly the theory that being in 2x2 flips somehow has some bearing as to their legitimacy is the stupidest thing I've ever read... Pssst... you don't suppose they might have been put into them AFTER they were made do you ? OMG you don't suppose my 1802 large cent is counterfiet do you ? After all it's in a 2x2 and they weren't invented in 1802. I better have it looked at... And by the way, there are also several well known artists today who are making hobo nickles using the old techniques and doing a damn fine job of it. I never said the nickles in question were definately done in the 1930s. Just that they appeared to be professionally done in the old style rather than the current crop of flea market crap that can be bought for 5 or 10 bucks. Those modern day carvers get a pretty penny for their work and rightfully so. Without definate provinance as to who made them and when the only way to judge value is by the quality of the work & the methods used. I stand by my opinion that the $2 estimate is a joke. Have a day.NHBandit said:The big difference in price is that modern versions made for the flea market trade are usually done with a Dremel tool or something similar that's quick & easy and are often done using no-date buffalos that can be bought dirt cheap. These are all hand carved and are done using full date nickles which tells me they were most likely done back around that time or possibly done by a modern day artist but in any case, done by a pro. Back in the day they actually were carved by hobos using nothing more than a pocketknife or even sometimes just a nail. They were often swapped for a meal or a night in a flophouse and are supposed to look crudely done. These most certainly have that "look". Look again. The feather is gone and has been replaced with an ear, the profile of the noses have been changed, etc. Someone put alot of work into these and it all appears to be done by hand. $2 each is ridiculous. Please do some research before giving an opinion.kleinerschmitter said:
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I'm sorry, what research did you do before giving your opinion?.......kleinerschmitter was giving an opinion on them looking amatuer and I couldn't agree more.....unless you happen to know some "professional" hobo's who happen to have some 2x2 flips and pen to sign their name......
HH all!
Greg
One question.....take a look at the picture above again.......now please try to explain to me what you find "professional" about them
You say that "they appear to be professionally done in the old style". If the old style was done by hobo's WHO WERE AMATUERS then why would a "professional" try to duplicate an amatuer
" Hello... What part of "hobo" is hard to understand ? The guys who originally made these back in the early part of the 20th century were about as far from being professionals as anyone could be. What's your point ? I believe I was pretty clear with my comments that they did not appear to be of the style that is often seen at flea markets (quickly done in mass quantity using a Dremel tool). I suppose my choice of the word "professional" was simply to show that the person who made them was a pretty fair carver using only simple hand tools. Take a nickle out of your pocket and try to scratch it with a pointy tool... You'll quickly discover that Nickle is some pretty damn hard metal. So it's your opinion that only art created by a "professional" has any value ? Antique folk art made by some farmer using tractor parts or whatever he had laying around is only worth scrap metal value ? Paintings by Grandma Moses aren't worth any more than the ones your kid brings home from school ? OK.... Some guys just don't get it and probably never will.. If I hadn't just moved to Tennessee from NH & alot of my coin collection wasn't still packed I'd gladly show you examples of machine made flea market hobo nickles as well as a couple that were painstakenly hand carved using primitive hand tools so you could see the obvious differences. Other than that I suggest that anyone who wants to know what they're looking at rather than just spouting off miss-information should click on the links provided by Don. There was also a really good article complete with nice big clear pictures in one of the coin magazines a year or 2 ago that pretty well covered how to tell the difference. I generally don't offer my opinion on here unless I KNOW what I'm talking about. To do otherwise usually ends up with you looking like a clueless fool.. And just to throw another wrench into the works there are also some really nicely done carved coins being made these days using Dremel tools to completely change the design of the host coins and they do bring a "pretty penny" if done nicely. Not simply putting a hat on an Indian head, I mean creating a completely new design so you'd never even be able to tell what the original coin was. This practise of using coins as the basis for artistic work is nothing new. People have been making "Love tokens" out of silver coins almost as long as coins have been around. I was simply offering my opinion (based on my prior knowlege of the subject & backed up by FACTS) that these particular nickles were nicely done, not mass produced "flea market" junk worth 2 bucks, and most likely either done in the period of the 30s or so OR done by someone using the same methods. I stand by that opinion. This style... http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-NICE-1...80?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item256c7aee50 Notice how the entire background has been carved away, etc. The very same style as these pictured here by the original poster.. You want to keep arguing, find someone else. That's not what I'm here for..
