9.25" octagon gun barrel??? Where did this originally belong?

[centark]

9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Any ideas as to what this barrel belonged back in the day?

Here are some pics after my first attempt at electrolysis... anyone know of a good inexpensive machine to do this? I've tried two different types of battery chargers and a educational machine from our science class that even controls the amount of DC output... this machine started smoking but the bubble action was incredible from this machine!

The two noticable features on the barrel are on opposite sides of the octagon: the indention is near the end and the other is a little more than halfway down toward the other end...

What about caliber? If I were to tap on a AAA battery very hard, It would probably fit...

 

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[DigginThePast]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

okay, the indention starts at 1" from the end of the barrel and the center of the raised up spot is right at 4" from that same end...

thanks for all your replies guys!

Are they on the same side or.....?

NOLA_Ken - I was thinking maybe a Paterson Rifle myself, not revolver but I'm discounting the idea now due to the "hump" on this piece.

BCH - If the "hump" as I'm calling it is on the opposite of what appears to be a provision for a front site, then I think its pretty much decided that the muzzle end of a rifle was cut off. If the dovetail and hump are on the same side then........

Bubba - I think its coming back around to that cut down rifle as discussed above. We may never know the exact reason for this piece but we have several plausible ideas including the idea of cutting for a youth size.

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Bigcypresshunter wrote:
> Thanks. I think that means its a large caliber muzzleloader rifle such as .58 caliber.
> Too large for a pistol. Where are the bullet people?

BCH, since you asked... here are some thoughts from a "bullet person" about the octagon barrel (or part of a longer one). For finding the object's correct ID, check to see whether its bore has rifling-grooves, or not. Generally, a dug-up gunbarrel's interior was "comparatively" sheltered from the dirt and corrosion which ate up its exterior. Therefore, with some careful cleaning-out and a proper light-source, perhaps its owner will be able to see if any rifling-grooves show inside the bore. Absence or presence of rifling (and the number of grooves) will help to date the barrel, and will exclude some possible ID-candidates.

Y'all are on the right track by checking for evidence of a gunsight and a stock-mounting notch (or stud) ...and their exact locations on the barrel.

Bigcypresshunter continued:
> I don't know who would cut 9 inches off a rifle barrel. Maybe it exploded.

As Digginthepast mentioned, a long barrel can be cumbersome when hunting in thick woods or brush ...especially if the long barrel is a muzzleloader. We civil war collectors encounter many non-excavated "war surplus" civil war longarms which were sold to civilians after the war, who then cut down the long barrel for game-hunting in brushy woods. (It is particularly dismaying to come across a rare Confederate-made rifle which somebody's grandpa cut down for hunting to feed his family during the 1930s Great Depression ...because "back then," grandpa never though his CS-made rifle would someday be worth a lot more money in its original (un-modified) condition.


Also, there is Historical documentation that during the civil war, cavalrymen who couldn't get hold of Carbines would cut down the barrel of long rifles, to make the rifle easier to muzzle-load while on horseback.

 

[Red James Cash]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

It could be from somebody that made a mares leg way back when and you found the cut off barrel.

 

[centark]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Wow! You guys are amazing! If you look closely at the pic showing the entire length next to a ruler, you'll notice the "notch" is on the top at the 1" mark; and the "hump" is on the opposite side of the octagon at the 4" mark...

I will continue to clean the inside as it seemed to be completely filled with dirt... I was surprised at how much dirt was in there! What did rifling look like back then? Was it spiral?

Thanks for the awesome replies! I'm just excited to have generated interest with such a neat piece! I'll have other "whatsits" as the get cleaned.

 

[Red James Cash]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Rifling was first done not for accuracy sake but, for someplace for the powder residue to collect.If you ever fired muzzle loaders you'll know what i mean. At first rifling was straight .

 

[centark]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

I've never fired a muzzleloader. Only bb's to 12ga. How many marks can I exect to find?

 

[Red James Cash]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Rifling grooves? That was all usually up to the maker unless factory made.My guess 6 to 8. One way to find out if it was a cut off is if one end of the barrel has threads on the inside.If so then you know a breech plug went there.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Centark wrote:
> What did rifling look like back then?

Except for the very-very earliest rifled firearms, the grooves "spiral" slowly down inside the bore. I don't have a photo which shows what the inside of a rifle or pistol's rifled bore looks like. But if you watch the famous Intro sequence of James Bond movies, you'll get a view through a rifled firearm's bore, showing the spiraling grooves. I'll post a photo showing a rare civil war cannon's 10-groove rifling.

A muzzleloader's rifling-grooves were usually significantly wider and deeper than the grooves in a breechloader.

Look at the photo posted by Bigcypresshunter. It shows the muzzle of a Revolutionary War era .58 Kentucky rifle with 7 narrow "very-deep" grooves. If your barrel has rifling-grooves, they will probably be much shallower than this RevWar Kentucky rifle's groves. (I'll repost the photo, below.)

CentArk continued:
> How many marks can I exect to find?

The majority of 19th-century American rifled firearms had 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 rifling-grooves. For example, here are some civil war firearms: the US 1861-model .58 Springfield rifle had 3 wide grooves, the Austrian .55 Tige rifle had 4 semi-wide grooves, the US Sharps .52 carbine had 6, and the US .44 Colt Army revolver had 7.

 

[l.cutler]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

It is almost certainly a rifle cutoff. It was very common to cut down long guns, there are probably more surviving originals cut down than there are full length. There were various reasons to do so, careless loading and cleaning would wear the rifling at the muzzle, damage to the barrel, or quite likely just to lighten it up a bit for easier carry. Caliber means nothing in identifying rifle or pistol, both were available in the same calibers.

 

[centark]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Thanks everyone for your input. Ive only been hunting for about a month now and this was my first relic hunt. It could very well be a cut part of a rifle but; I'm still not totally convinced it wasnt a pistol barrel. Reasons being. 1) the smoothest end of the barrel is at the opposite end of where the site obviously was. 2)my brother in law has a rifle from the period and the rod housing was attached at the bottom with an even larger dove tail indenting on the bottom of the octagon. 3)this rifle has no threads on it anywhere on the inside for any "plug". It doesn't make sense that there would have been a plug on a barrel which was probably loaded from the back side if the barrel. 4) I have seen pictures of pistols from the time period and some of them contained the same sight mount which appear on the rifles. Lastly) if I find rifling grooves, I'll mention those at a later date. Thanks again! I'll be posting more weird pieces of iron as I get them clean.

 

[Red James Cash]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

If the barrel was a complete barrel to a muzzle loading single shot pistol it would have to have a breech plug in order to be able to be loaded and fired, though it could of been a barrel that wasnt finished being made. The single shot pistols had beefier, heavier barrels than the muzzle loading revolvers . Some were round some were octagon, some smooth bore, some rifled. I use to have a .44 rifled single shot percussion pistol, octagon barrel. my brother has a flintlock .62 caliber smooth bore pistol, round barrel. Muzzle loading revolver barrels didnt have breech plugs. Muzzle loading single shot rifles and single shot pistols did. The picture is of a rifle breech plug. Pistol breech plugs were similar.

 

[DigginThePast]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

Centark - Do be sure to post if you find anything else with your piece.

So, what else ya got?

 

[l.cutler]

Re: 9.25" octagon gun barrel Where did this originally belong?

If it is a pistol barrel it is still cut off. As stated a muzzleoading pistol barrel would be threaded on the inside for a breechplug, a revolver would be threaded on the outside to attach to the frame.