A boatload of silver to find

[Turtleman]

Folks,
I was speaking to the landowner of a place I've been detecting and he told me about how a relative of his used to have a large bucket in his bedroom where he put his change. The house burnt down and the coins were buried under the ash and rubble. The foundation still stands today and the relative (still living) never retrieved the coins. I asked the man when the fire was and he said in the 1960's (silver!). I told him I would dig it up for him and his relative for the simple thrill of finding the mother lode. He said he'll let me know soon. Any tips on retrieving the coins? The man knows the exact corner of the foundation where the coins fell in.
T-man

 

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[Mackaydon]

Do I understand that for over 40 years this guy has known the exact corner of the home where all these coins are and he's never attempted to dig them up? Strange, indeed.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Folks,
I was speaking to the landowner of a place I've been detecting and he told me about how a relative of his used to have a large bucket in his bedroom where he put his change. The house burnt down and the coins were buried under the ash and rubble. The foundation still stands today and the relative (still living) never retrieved the coins. I asked the man when the fire was and he said in the 1960's (silver!). I told him I would dig it up for him and his relative for the simple thrill of finding the mother lode. He said he'll let me know soon. Any tips on retrieving the coins? The man knows the exact corner of the foundation where the coins fell in.
T-man

Knowing the exact corner of the foundation, I would think finding them would be pretty straight foreward. I would simply clean off the area and detect. Go dig 'em.

 

[Turtleman]

Do I understand that for over 40 years this guy has known the exact corner of the home where all these coins are and he's never attempted to dig them up? Strange, indeed.

Mackaydon,
Yeah, sounds strange but he refuses to go back to the burnt out house...I guess bad memories.
T-man

 

[GrayCloud]

Since you know the location and if detecting is not an option = Dig and Sift.

 

[petersra]

There will be more nails in every corner of the house than you can count, a PI is not a good idea. If you have a detector that differentiates between iron and copper/silver, that would help a lot. Looks like you have some digging to do. What ya waiting fer?

 

[Turtleman]

There will be more nails in every corner of the house than you can count, a PI is not a good idea. If you have a detector that differentiates between iron and copper/silver, that would help a lot. Looks like you have some digging to do. What ya waiting fer?

Petersa,
Just waiting on the go ahead from the man. I need his permission and him to show me the location of the house.
T-man

 

[boogeyman]

Take a leaf rake with. You'll be surprised at how much you can move if the ash is deep. Another thing to think about is if the structure burned completely to the ground, there's a possibility the bucket & coins can end up being a blob (been there done that). Make sure you have some good leather work gloves & boots with good soles. Also wear clothes you're willing to chuck in the trash when you're done.

I can understand the owner not wanting to go back to the house, especially if there was a fatality whether it be person or pet. As stated above, be prepared for tons of nails & little melted blobs of whatzits.

Another hint. If the fire was fought by a fire department, you may end up not finding the coins in the foundation area. I got to search a house that burned with a sparklets bottle of coins inside. Found very few coins in the rubble, but the balance of the coins were found in a semi circle going out from the foundation. We figured the fire Dept. hit it with a fire hose & blew everything out across the back yard. You should have fun with this one!

 

[49r Relics]

I just thought I would chime in on this one . . . I am an Arson/Fire Investigator and was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 22 years prior to this. I have never once seen a residential structure fire scene where the fire was so intense that it actually melted coins. It is very common to find clumps of coins in melted glass or melted plastic containers and except for some significant discoloration, blistering and bending, the coins do not reach the required sustained temperature to melt in a typical residential structure fire. I mentioned "Residential Structure" twice because generally speaking these are homes made of normal combustibles such as wood, plastics, etc. Even though the silver alloy used in pre-1964 U.S. coins has a slightly lower melting temp than todays coins, temps in these fires are no where near the temps required for this to occur. There are a few scenarios where it could be possible (but still unlikely), that is if the coins were located in the corner of a concrete or brick basement, eavesment or retainer where the concrete material was able to act as an oven by radiating convected heat and/or if there were accelerants used (not just gasoline but oxidizing accelerants).

That would be really cool if this works out, but these facts above with the further fact that fire scenes are usually cleaned carefully by construction crews before they rebuild. I don't know if they ever rebuilt another home there, but these construction have to visual inspect and check the integrity of the sewage, water, electrical, heating/cooling and especially the gas lines inside the foundation or under the subfloor. Inspectors usually require everything to be clean and tidy during the inspections for permits on the rebuild.

These are just a couple things to keep in mind while you ponder this story. Looking forward to seeing if you are able to get any more information or find anything on your search.

HH, Mark

 

[boogeyman]

I don't have your credentials, which I must say are impressive, and I salute you 100% for the job you investigators do!! I'm just stating what experience I had and recoveries made. The two clumps and several coins clumped together were recovered from a two story spanish style house in Ca. As far as my memory goes it burned in 1951 or 1952.

The other one I mentioned, the house had burned leaving just the fireplace. It sat untouched for almost half a year. It sat for a couple months more until we could research the property owner to gain permission. As I said there was nothing on/in the foundation, but there were coins spread out in a fan shaped pattern from where (by the aluminum blobs) there was a window. The property sat untouched for two years more before the house was rebuilt. Again, I'd like to acknowledge the job you guys do!

 

[SushiDog]

I have a better idea (I think)....I would build a frame from 2x4's.....perhaps 4 feet square, and nail some wire mesh on it to sift all of the ash, dirt, debris and coins...I would use 3/8th's square mesh...just a thought....SushiDog

 

[Mr.Jody]

I HAVE SEEN with my own eyes and held in my hand a melted gold coin from a house fire! just saying...

 

[DONinPA]

Well I live in Pittsburgh and have a shovel (also a small backhoe ) and a m6 . If you need a hand let me know...sounds like fun.

 

[BARGuy]

Strange that no one has yet mentioned the display case the detector dealer in Montrose, CO has. In it, he has a "blob" of halves...Probably a gallon or so...Silver if memory serves...All welded/melted into one piece.

 

[Ground0]

I just thought I would chime in on this one . . . I am an Arson/Fire Investigator and was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 22 years prior to this. I have never once seen a residential structure fire scene where the fire was so intense that it actually melted coins. It is very common to find clumps of coins in melted glass or melted plastic containers and except for some significant discoloration, blistering and bending, the coins do not reach the required sustained temperature to melt in a typical residential structure fire. I mentioned "Residential Structure" twice because generally speaking these are homes made of normal combustibles such as wood, plastics, etc. Even though the silver alloy used in pre-1964 U.S. coins has a slightly lower melting temp than todays coins, temps in these fires are no where near the temps required for this to occur. There are a few scenarios where it could be possible (but still unlikely), that is if the coins were located in the corner of a concrete or brick basement, eavesment or retainer where the concrete material was able to act as an oven by radiating convected heat and/or if there were accelerants used (not just gasoline but oxidizing accelerants).

That would be really cool if this works out, but these facts above with the further fact that fire scenes are usually cleaned carefully by construction crews before they rebuild. I don't know if they ever rebuilt another home there, but these construction have to visual inspect and check the integrity of the sewage, water, electrical, heating/cooling and especially the gas lines inside the foundation or under the subfloor. Inspectors usually require everything to be clean and tidy during the inspections for permits on the rebuild.

These are just a couple things to keep in mind while you ponder this story. Looking forward to seeing if you are able to get any more information or find anything on your search.

HH, Mark

I agree. Unfortunately, I've been through a fire and things with MASS will "fall where they lay."

"Stacked" coins (as in a bucket) would require extreme heat for an extended period of time to create a melted "blob," but the mass would still be concentrated where it fell. Blob or not. I'm curious if there was a basement, or a slab. If a slab, then there could be coins "sprayed" about by the F.D. as suggested; if a basement, then they likely "lay where they fell."

40 years of knowing what corner to search and still not searching?

If it was there, it's still there... unless there's someone out there who was decidedly a bit more assertive. Aggressive. Inspired. Motivated. Hungry....? Lucky? Nah!

Here's to hoping for the prior !

All the best, and Happy Hunting!!

 

[GrayCloud]

Not claiming to be a metallurgist, But metal will bond together with and without the addition of heat. The amount of bonding depends on the type of metal (hardness) and longevity of the bonding process.
Heat is the #1 cause of bonding and accelerates the bonding process. Gold and lead will bond together without the addition of heat. Silver is a harder metal and would need to be heat activated. Just my Two Cents.

 

[Curtis]

Greycloud is right, silver will even bond without heat just due to the oxidation see a "conglomerate" of silver? The Spanish treasure ship coins do this and become one mass..but the process can be reversed somewhat and some of the coins separated...don't think the melted ones can be rescued......also silver solder is used to weld different metals together so even if the other metals didn't melt they could be "welded" together by the silver.

I was a volunteer fireman and saw some very interesting things that fire can do...both sides of the argument could be true...if a house was shut up and didn't have places for the fire to get fresh air it might burn down without getting too hot to melt the coins...however the same type of house with a crawlspace or basement or other venting may turn parts of it into a "blow torch" effect and the temperatures could double or triple thus giving the fire the temperature needed to melt the coins. No matter what I would dig them out! Let us know how it comes out!

 

[Jason in Enid]

I have very little faith in this story. Letting a pile of silver sit, uncollected, for over 50 years? Wouldn't happen. Maybe if it was just a few coins.... but a "large bucket" of coins?