A Challenge for the Skeptics! ;)

[Oroblanco]

A CHALLENGE FOR THE SKEPTIC:

I see that those skeptics of dowsing insist on any dowser traveling to their location to "prove" their claims by tests. So since we have people willing to put up $1 million, or $25k to "prove" such ability, and since I do not dowse for treasures and do not claim to be able to, so could not afford to travel to such distant locations - here is my challenge to you;

Come to my home, bring along a portable drill rig as you will need it. It will need to be one of the larger models, capable of reaching 600 feet, since the nearest well with water in it is that deep (over a mile away) - a drill incapable of reaching that depth will not likely be able to reach the water vein. Such a drill will only cost a few thousand dollars, much less than the $1 million prize or even the $25k prize money offered in skeptic challenges. I will mark a spot for you to drill. Regardless of outcome, whether water is found or not, you may then proclaim to the world that you have openly tested a self-pronounced dowser and he failed utterly - I won't mind a bit, so long as you will drill that hole for me. (I need a well drilled and am absolutely confident the spot will produce water, despite the fact this land is all extinct volcano and exceptionally dry. Any hydrologist can tell you the only types of water deposits in this type of land are "karst" type, which are notoriously narrow and small. The nearest natural spring was Sulphur Spring, about eight linear miles away, which went dry after an earthquake in the 1800s.)

In fact, if you are one of those who believes that there is just water EVERYWHERE so my marked spot was pointless, and want to go through the extra efforts, (after the first hole is drilled) if you desire, I will mark a spot where there is NO water, you can drill there. If you hit water there it really WILL prove me wrong - and in either case, if water is found I will pay you $500 in cash on the spot.

So Mr or Ms Skeptic, where are you going to find another offer like this - you are guaranteed to be able to proclaim that a dowser failed a test, for the mere price of a portable drill rig and some of your travel expenses which will be offset partially by the $500 in return. (As I said, I will NOT be in the least offended, so long as I get the use of that drill ) Any skeptic interested, please contact me by PM or email.

Portable drill rigs: http://www.hydratek2000.com/
http://www.hydra-jett.com/

Oroblanco

 

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[ClonedSIM]

Your challenge could be doable.

Just to make sure that everything is on the up-and-up, and you are not just trying to get a free well drilled, you would be required to take a simple pre-test.

A simple pre-test would involve ten buckets with lids. One bucket would contain water, and the remaining nine would be empty. You would be required to “find” the bucket with water in it seven out of ten tries. That should show you have dowsing “powers” and not just guessing, eh?

Are you willing to do a pre-test?

LOL!!

 

[Oroblanco]

<snip>...and you are not just trying to get a free well drilled,...<snip>

Yep you guessed it - you see, I don't really feel a "need" to prove dowsing works, having seen it and done it, but don't have the bucks to go out and buy my own drill rig. (At the moment) That is why I offered to allow the skeptic to claim the test was an utter failure regardless of outcome. But - if I could find a skeptic who wants such a 'victory' badly enough... who knows? I am being fully honest with you, I am sure the first spot marked will produce water and would sure be happy to do the buckets test (haven't actually tried that but I think a few gallons of water should be enough of a target to get a reaction) so long as I can get the skeptic here with that drill rig. So yes, actually I need a well drilled, which is my object, I won't mind if I am afterwards vilified in public as a dowsing failure. Anyway I don't want anyone (skeptics included) thinking I am trying to "trick" them, I need a hole drilled and know where to drill it, if a skeptic out there has the bucks and wants to have a subject tested who won't mind if they claim 'victory' I am happy to oblige!

I have mentioned in other threads my reasons - when Mrs Oro and I bought this place, we were told that having a well drilled here would cost $8 to $10 per foot, which was also on the Pearce-Sunsites website; after moving here we learned that not only was that price far off from the truth (the lowest price we were quoted was a minimum of $25,000, with NO guarantees of finding any water) but not ONE of the well drilling outfits in the county is willing to even come to our place, as it is in a relatively remote location. We have been hauling water since moving here, 36 miles round trip each time - so our only option is to get our own drill rig and drill our own well. We have owned one of the small "hydra drills" made by Deeprock (Ark) which worked pretty well but could only reach 200 feet max, and we will need to get at least 600 feet to have a chance. I have read the ongoing debate and tests offered, and the idea hit me - well heck if some skeptic just wants to be able to SAY he/she tested a dowser and the dowser failed, I won't mind a bit, so long as they don't mind drilling the hole.

This offer has a limited time, lasting until when I eventually save up enough to buy my own drill rig - I can then drill my own well so won't need any such test. Of course if at that time some skeptic has a desire to see if dowsing for water truly works, they are welcome to come and watch. No $500 cash though, in that case!

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Sure! Bring the drill rig, and some buckets - I don't think we own ten buckets with tops. I will be happy to do a pre-test on the buckets, so long as the drill rig is here and ready to go.

Oroblanco

 

[Bill]

Oroblanco (Mr. & Mrs.), you must forgive Jim (SWR, this stands for shallow water recovery), he is absolutely obsessed with proving that dowsing does not work. BTW, you cannot challenge skeptics, skeptics challenge you, that's the way it works. (Oh, also, I now know why it's SHALLOW water recovery).
Bill
p.s. Roy, PM or email me, and I WILL tell you if there is water at a less deep depth.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Bill!

I gathered that SWR (Jim) has this obsession to "prove" that dowsing doesn't work, just didn't want to fool him into anything - if he has such a desire to "prove" that dowsing didn't work, and wants a SURE FIRE test he will be able to say the dowser failed, I am happy to oblige, so long as I get the use of his drill - of course he must want that "failed dowser" claim bad enough to buy a rig and haul it here, and heck I would throw in the $500 cash to help defray his expenses. I have zero doubt the first hole drilled will produce water, so long as it is on the spot marked. Elsewhere, I have little doubt that NO water can be reached even with a 600 foot capability.

Sure I can "challenge" the skeptics, they want a dowser to travel to their location, well come here instead! They appear to be ready to ante-up money ($1 million in one case, $25k in another) so why not? A drill rig is only a few thousand dollars, and it is guaranteed they can say (afterwards) the test showed the dowser failed despite the fact that water will be found. I won't mind!

Yes water exists at shallower depths, we have mesquite which appears to be living on it - however I have dug several of these locations and the water flow is incredibly small. (Apparently a mesquite tree can live on a very tiny amount of water.) Only the deep vein seems to be a large body of water. I will PM you in a second here...

Oroblanco

 

[Bill]

Another test with buckets yet. The man wants you to prove that the dowsed site does not have water. He don't need no stinkin' test.
Oroblanco, SWR will not answer your challenge, I offered to put him up in my hotel if he would come to Arizona for prove that my partner and I can dowse. No response.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Sure I can "challenge" the skeptics, they want a dowser to travel to their location, well come here instead! They appear to be ready to ante-up money ($1 million in one case, $25k in another) so why not? A drill rig is only a few thousand dollars, and it is guaranteed they can say (afterwards) the test showed the dowser failed despite the fact that water will be found. I won't mind!

Oroblanco

The problem with this thought should be obvious. The challenge money is earmarked to go to someone who proves their claimed talent, not to be spent traipsing around the country helping people try to prove their talents.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=af1733

The challenge money is earmarked to go to someone who proves their claimed talent, not to be spent traipsing around the country helping people try to prove their talents.
***********
Snicker hehehe yeah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of ---- "current" -- scientific understanding.

"My scepticism is directed towards the --------"assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not".

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

I am not sure why this offer should have been mis-understood - it is NOT a real test, I need a well drilled, and thought if some skeptic wants to be able to SAY that he/she had tested a dowser on the dowser's own terms, and the dowser FAILED (even though I am absolutely certain the hole will produce water) I would not mind a bit, so long as I get to drill that hole. I see no need of a bucket-test, as the skeptic WILL be able to claim that I, the dowser, FAILED regardless of how the "test" went - so....? I have made NO claims to be able to dowse water in buckets, much less any kind of "treasure" (though water would be a very real treasure for me) plus this is NOT a real test - like I said, the skeptic is free to state that I failed, whether I actually found water or NOT - a GUARANTEE of being able to SAY the dowser failed, with said dowser's support and $500 cash to boot - so maybe I should write it this way -

The Skeptic, having provided the drill rig, WILL be able to claim the dowser FAILED, regardless of outcome - so long as he provides the use of the drill rig, and it is extremely likely that water will be found.

So it is not a "test" like that of Randi or Carl, which the results will CHANGE what the skeptic can state about the test afterwards - in this one, no matter what happens, the skeptic will be able to claim the dowser failed and the dowser will NOT mind one bit - so long as I get that hole drilled. This is why I don't see any need for taking bucket tests etc - I am NOT trying to "prove" that dowsing works, I know it does and simply don't have the money to buy my own drill rig, hence the offer. So what will the bucket test accomplish? To convince the skeptic enough to bring the equipment? Bring the buckets, along with a drill rig - if a bucket test is even needed, since I DON'T CARE what the Skeptic will say/publish AFTER I get that hole drilled, it does not matter to me. In fact we do have a few buckets around here, not sure if they have tops, but will try it and see if I get any kind of reaction.

Jim, (SWR) I don't wish to try to "fool" you, I am not trying to prove that dowsing works, I have seen it work and done it, I thought only that if some skeptic wanted to be able to say he had tested a dowser and the dowser failed, regardless of how the "test" actually went, I would not mind a bit, so long as I could get a hole drilled. This is why I offered to add in the $500 cash, to help defray the expenses of said skeptic. It is NOT a real 'test' - how could any test be "real" when the skeptic is guaranteed to be able to claim the dowser failed, regardless of outcome? On the other hand, if some skeptic or group were to actually follow through and drill the spot I have marked, they might be surprised to see water found - but I would not care, they could STILL claim that I failed, and I would support that claim - as I would now have a water well.

Oroblanco

 

[ClonedSIM]

Let me ask you this. If a skeptic paid to bring out the drill and dished out for the travel, etc....would you refund him his expenses if the well was dry?

 

[Oroblanco]

Up to $500, which is all I have saved, if I were to re-imburse the cost of the drill, I would just buy my own and NOT bother with any sort of 'test' - which is what I intend to do assuming no skeptic wants to do this "test" which is not a real test anyway.

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Judy,

Yes you are right, it is a rather small 'price' to pay, for the peace and solitude - every evening we are serenaded by packs of coyotes, occasionally Mexican wolves, and get to see all kinds of wildlife not to mention the views of the stars at night. There are rattlers, scorpions, Africanized bees and mountain lions living all around here to 'spice things up' but they make for great neighbors!

The kicker of this water problem is that we actually owned our own small drill rig years ago and let it go, NOW I wish I had kept it. (They are not cheap anymore!) A rainfall harvesting system is another very viable option for us, as we get a considerable amount of rain during monsoon season. I would not trade our views of the Chiricahuas, Dos Cabezas, and Dragoons for any place in a town or city, even though this means we must be our own "power company" and have to haul water.

One little bit of advice I would tell anyone considering moving "off the grid" - when you shop for generators, don't look for the biggest one you can find - the generator is going to be used mainly for the sole purpose of re-charging your battery bank (which is what you really use for your power) so get the smallest one that will drive the largest battery charger you intend to connect to the battery bank, as it is most fuel efficient. A large generator will charge the batteries too, but will eat up way more gas on those occasions when you have to run a generator. With enough solar panels and wind generators you won't need to run it often but we saw what can happen with fuel prices a few months ago -yikes. Anyway if you decide to start such a thread - please drop me a note? I would love to discuss it, and have much to learn too!

Your friend,
Roy A. Decker ~ Oroblanco

 

[ClonedSIM]

=af1733

The challenge money is earmarked to go to someone who proves their claimed talent, not to be spent traipsing around the country helping people try to prove their talents.
***********
Snicker hehehe yeah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of ---- "current" -- scientific understanding.

"My scepticism is directed towards the --------"assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not".

Tropical Tramp

Heheheh.....snicker is right.
Damning words....wouldn't you say, Tropi.....heheheh.

Judy

I'm sorry, if you're accusing me of something, why don't you actually say what you're thinking? Both you and apparently Realde have found some kind of fault with my post, but neither of you seems to know exactly what the problem is.

 

[ClonedSIM]

=af1733

The challenge money is earmarked to go to someone who proves their claimed talent, not to be spent traipsing around the country helping people try to prove their talents.
***********
Snicker hehehe yeah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of ---- "current" -- scientific understanding.

"My scepticism is directed towards the --------"assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not".

Tropical Tramp

Heheheh.....snicker is right.
Damning words....wouldn't you say, Tropi.....heheheh.

Judy

I'm sorry, if you're accusing me of something, why don't you actually say what you're thinking? Both you and apparently Realde have found some kind of fault with my post, but neither of you seems to know exactly what the problem is.

Your post was spot-on, AF

If Oro could actually dowse, then he would welcome the Skeptic organization based in Tucson to give him a “dowse the bucket of water” pre-test. If Oro passed that pre-test, then he should qualify for the Million Dollar Challenge.

Oro stated they are low on funds, and here is his chance to rectify that problem. Sounds simple enough, eh?

Simple indeed, SWR.

 

[aarthrj3811]

If Oro could actually dowse, then he would welcome the Skeptic organization based in Tucson to give him a “dowse the bucket of water” pre-test. If Oro passed that pre-test, then he should qualify for the Million Dollar Challenge.

Hey SWR.....Your Assuming that there is a Skeptivs Organization in Tucson. Your assuming that they would want to give Oro a bucket test. I am sure that Oro is not even on the radar to take the Million Dollar Challenge....We will have to wait to see if anyone ever gets to challenge Randi for the money....Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Hey SWR.....Your Assuming that there is a Skeptivs Organization in Tucson. Your assuming that they would want to give Oro a bucket test. I am sure that Oro is not even on the radar to take the Million Dollar Challenge....We will have to wait to see if anyone ever gets to challenge Randi for the money....Art

SWR, you forgot to point another rule of the dowser handbook! I can't do this, so I'll wait and see if anyone else does, then when it never happens I can blame the skeptics.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=SWR link=

Art...nowhere in my post did I use the word "assume". Unless you have access to my email or tap my phoneline...you don't know jack. You are the one who is assuming...not me
****************
Usual thing from the sceptis bible, put the oponent on the defensive by a non applicable remark or challenge. such as as the silly question as posted by you here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Art try http//'en.wikipedia.org type in "misuse and using false data in computing statistics". There areover 3015 pages

Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of ---- "current" -- scientific understanding.

"My scepticism is directed towards the --------"assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not".

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI some one asked me, why do I post when none of the sceptics can / will answer my questions. It is really simple. I am not posting for them, but for the benefit of the hundreds of visitors to these sites Many have em'd me to ask "are these guys real"? Why are they so self centered and make such self aggrandizing remarks while running down anyone else, even for grammer, which has nothing to do with intelligence, or the subject at hand, just lack of a formal education.? I merely tell them to just watch their posts which are actually silly, and self revealing. even go so far as to post many no's as presumed evidence of their superior intelligence, of course most are simply copied out of a text. the proof of the pudding. Actually most of their posts are self defeating.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Art try http//'en.wikipedia.org type in "misuse and using false data in computing statistics". There areover 3015 pages

Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of ---- "current" -- scientific understanding.

"My scepticism is directed towards the --------"assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not".

Tropical Tramp

 

[ClonedSIM]

=af1733

The challenge money is earmarked to go to someone who proves their claimed talent, not to be spent traipsing around the country helping people try to prove their talents.
***********
Snicker hehehe yeah.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like Marks, I am a sceptic, but of a different kind. His scepticism is directed towards anything he regards as "paranormal", taking as normal that which lies within the limits of ---- "current" -- scientific understanding.

"My scepticism is directed towards the --------"assumption that we know enough to proclaim what is possible and what is not".

Tropical Tramp

Heheheh.....snicker is right.
Damning words....wouldn't you say, Tropi.....heheheh.

Judy

I'm sorry, if you're accusing me of something, why don't you actually say what you're thinking? Both you and apparently Realde have found some kind of fault with my post, but neither of you seems to know exactly what the problem is.

Au contraire, mon Ami......I have not found any fault in that post....nor am I accusing you of anything. There is no "problem" with the post. In fact, I heartily agree with SWR...your post concerning the Challenge money is "spot on".....
Actually....I think it bears repeating......


Judy

Well, alright then!