A Genuine Treasure Chart - Sir William Phips Concepcion

[Old Bookaroo]

A Genuine Treasure Chart - Sir William Phips' Concepcion

Who says there are no genuine treasure maps?

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A Map of Terra Firma Guiana and the Antilles Islands by Herman Moll (London: 1745)

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

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[chlsbrns]

Who says there are no genuine treasure maps?

View attachment 902282
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A Map of Terra Firma Guiana and the Antilles Islands by Herman Moll (London: 1745)

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

What makes that a treasure map? It's posted all over the internet. It was actually published in 1716. It was reprinted in 1745.

File:TierraFirme.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

La Mirada del Nuchu: junio 2010

 

[ScubaFinder]

Hmmmm, what makes this a treasure map.....maybe the fact that it is a map that lists a treasure location on it? Call me crazy, but those are the only requirements I know of for a treasure map, not sure what publishing dates or internet sharing has to do with anything.

 

[chlsbrns]

Hmmmm, what makes this a treasure map.....maybe the fact that it is a map that lists a treasure location on it? Call me crazy, but those are the only requirements I know of for a treasure map, not sure what publishing dates or internet sharing has to do with anything.

I must have missed the "treasure location" Can you point out the "fact" that this map shows a treasure location? While you are at it you can also verify that the treasure exists. No treasure = no "fact"

 

[old man]

I must have missed the "treasure location" Can you point out the "fact" that this map shows a treasure location? While you are at it you can also verify that the treasure exists. No treasure = no "fact"

Please do some research on Sir William Phipps and the treasure galleon that he salvaged at a location on that map. It was also salvaged a second time about 40 years ago. I believe that Jack Haskins provided the Research while on that expedition with Webber and that Haskins actually found the first Treasure that was recovered during that Expedition.

 

[chlsbrns]

old man I found an article: Treasure Hunter Jack Haskins Finds An Undersea Fortune in the Depths of the Library : People.com

I still don't see anything on the map?

 

[ScubaFinder]

chlsbrns - Forgive me for thinking your first post was a little out of line. You called out the poster claiming there was no treasure location even though he put a black rectangle around the area labelled (loose translation) Sir William Phipps - Silver Banks. The silver banks as it is known today was named so for the millions in silver coins that Sir William Phipps salvaged from the Nuestra Senora de las Concepcion which wrecked there in 1641. Later, Burt Webber re-located the wreck and salvaged even more treasure from the location. Still today, Tracey Bowden and crew work the wreck and have found even more than Webber did. It is a factual treasure, a factual location, and it is listed on the map as highlighted in the image...look for the faint black rectangle.

 

[chlsbrns]

No big deal.

Sir William Phipps - Silver Banks is written in another language? Is sure doesn't look like it says that on the map.

Being that it wrecked in the 1600's and was shown on a map in the 1700's after it had already been found is isn't much different than looking at a current map of wrecks.

The people that recovered some of the treasures left behind found the location from logs in a library. They surely could not have used that map to find the location.

 

[bigscoop]

I believe the Reale 8 Company (Wagner) eventually used a Roman's map to verify/confirm the "exact source" and "location" of the 1715 fleet wreck, as Roman's had likewise detailed that location on his map. So just another "treasure map" that had been completely ignored up to that point.

 

[chlsbrns]

From: Treasure Hunter Jack Haskins Finds An Undersea Fortune in the Depths of the Library : People.com

"Indeed, even more vital to the success of the search than Webber was his partner in adventure, Jack Haskins. A self-taught expert in historical manuscripts, Haskins, 44, had traced the approximate location of the wreck through yellowed Spanish documents"

"Burt Webber went to sea with a $15,000 photomosaic map of the ocean floor where the Concepción went down in 1641 and an impressive complement of equipment and specialists"

 

[bigscoop]

I suspect there are many "unknown/unrealized" references on some of those older maps that could easily be in reference to the locations of significant wrecks.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

bigscoop:

You are correct! Kip Wagner told the whole story in the classic Pieces of Eight.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

ScubaFinder:

Thanx.

You know the old saying - You can lead a horse to water, but you can't teach him boating safety.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

chlsbrns:

I posted that old map because I think it is cool.

Would you like me to refund what I charged you to view it?

Jack Haskins correctly figured out where the rest of the Concepcion was located. That was the key. He paddled off on his own and was the first person to see the wreck since Sir William Phips had done so, some three centuries before.

He told me the story while we were sitting on Frogfoot Weller's back porch.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Army of 1]

I believe the " key " to rediscovering the Concepcion was the discovery of the log of the Henry found in archives , which gave the exact location of the wreck some miles from where they were searching .. cheers Mick

 

[old man]

chlsbrns:

I posted that old map because I think it is cool.

Would you like me to refund what I charged you to view it?

Jack Haskins correctly figured out where the rest of the Concepcion was located. That was the key. He paddled off on his own and was the first person to see the wreck since Sir William Phips had done so, some three centuries before.

He told me the story while we were sitting on Frogfoot Weller's back porch.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

Old Bookaroo, Jack was quite a character and a Great Researcher. Did Jack also tell you that an unnamed person was going to fire him for going off on his own and not diving where he was told to dive when he found the first treasure on the Expedition? Just Curious.
I didn't know Jack as well as a lot of people, but I never got tired of his stories and insight. The last time I saw Jack was when we had Breakfast together near his house in the Keys about a year or two before he went into hospital.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Army of 1:

Peter Earle is a wonderful treasure writer - can't recommend him too highly. His combination of scholarly research, clear writing, point of view - remarkable!

He wrote The Treasure of the Concepcion; The Wreck of the Almiranta. It came out in hardcover here in the US. Before the English edition was published Burt Webber hit the Big Casino and that edition has a final chapter telling the story of the research. This is from memory - please forgive me if I have the two editions reversed.

However - no matter how good the research, somebody still has to go out there and drop the hook and find the dang thing. It was remarkably quick when Thompson found the Central America. I don't have to tell anybody here what Burt Webber and Mel Fisher went through before they were successful (and it was Eugene Lyons' research that pointed Fisher to the keys beyond Key West, instead of up the chain where he'd been looking all those years).

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

old man:

I believe he did mention that. And he told us some very interesting accounts of other ventures.

He was not in good health at the time (I believe he only had one lung, but I could well be mistaken about that). I knew I would never have another opportunity like that one, and I was rather cruel in not letting him stop talking. There was a lot to learn in a hurry that afternoon!

One of the many things he mentioned I've never forgotten. "Plan for success."

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

bigscoop:

I was rummaging for something else and I came upon this:



"The Wreckage of the 1715 Plate Fleet" - Florida Treasure Brokers added the known wreck locations to Romans' 1774 Map.

Look above "Province."

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Jolly Mon]

I have a strong suspicion that this is a genuine treasure map as well (though it lacks a big, red X).

The chart is from 1680 and I have circled the universal shipwreck symbol located somewhat north of Memory Rock.

There have probably been many, many of shipwrecks in the general area, but this is quite a large scale chart and so the assumption must be made that this particular wreck was somehow more significant than usual. My guess is that the symbol marks the resting place of Nuestra Senora de la Maravillas which sank in pretty much this exact spot in 1656:



Here is part of an old Rod Serling documentary on Robert Marx's salvage operation of the Maravillas. It is kind of difficult to watch, but there are some good parts...incidentally, if anyone knows the full title of the documentary, please post the title as I would love to try and find the entire episode.