✅ SOLVED Abbey Broad Stemmed

[BearCreek]

I'm starting to think our horses are four-legged archaeologists! Found this today when I was hanging out with our little yearlings in the pasture. Maybe it is all the wild galloping around they do every day. One year olds really like to play! I almost didn't pick it up. I just saw the flattened area out of the corner of my eye and really thought it was nothing. So glad I gave it a nudge with my boot. I think this is an Abbey (Broad stemmed). It is appx. 1 1/2 inches long, and about 1 1/4 inches wide from barb to barb. The cross section is flattened on both sides, it's thick, and I think I'm right in saying there is steep beveling on all four blade edges. No idea what the material is. Keeping my fingers crossed that my identification skills are improving

 

[sandchip]

Elora?

By the way, you are tearing it up, girl. Then again, the horses are tearing it up, and you're picking 'em up.

 

[coosakid]

Pretty nice..... Ain't no telling what else they might kick up

 

[BearCreek]

Elora?

By the way, you are tearing it up, girl. Then again, the horses are tearing it up, and you're picking 'em up.

Elora...o.k. got to look that one up. Alright Sandchip is this point beveled....? Please say yes! I've been studying! And it is serrated?

 

[welsbury]

That is turning out to be a pretty good spot for you. Let the horses run,go out and pick up points!

 

[rock]

I was once told that the Elora point in this area is like the Garys in Texas. They are all over and come in many different sizes. So it is very likely.
I dont think we have Abbeys in this area we are to far north.

 

[sandchip]

Really doesn't have the look of an Abbey to me. They aren't normally that serrated, base is usually a bit narrower and shoulders more pronounced. A heavily resharpened South Prong Creek also entered my mind, but I'm still thinking Elora. I'm not saying not to learn your types, but don't let typing cloud the enjoyment of the find. Also, some points will never fit one particular type due to so many human factors. I found a Wacissa years ago that looked as though it was picked up and resharpened by a somebody of the Elora or South Prong culture.

 

[sweetmimzim3]

Way to go!! You've knocked another one out of the park!!

 

[sandchip]

Elora...o.k. got to look that one up. Alright Sandchip is this point beveled....? Please say yes! I've been studying! And it is serrated?

Looks like a 4-way bevel, but not an alternate or 2-way bevel like you see on Bolens, Big Sandies and Lost Lakes.

 

[BearCreek]

Really doesn't have the look of an Abbey to me. They aren't normally that serrated, base is usually a bit narrower and shoulders more pronounced. A heavily resharpened South Prong Creek also entered my mind, but I'm still thinking Elora. I'm not saying not to learn your types, but don't let typing cloud the enjoyment of the find. Also, some points will never fit one particular type due to so many human factors. I found a Wacissa years ago that looked as though it was picked up and resharpened by a somebody of the Elora or South Prong culture.

Thanks Sandchip! I definitely won't let type cloud my excitement of finding points, but having a career in education has made me one to always want to find the "answer" lol! I also think it's part of the puzzle with the different types of points I have found in this area and of course I love learning about the history of the area. Who was out there in my horse pasture? I can see why Elora is a possibility and why I guess sometimes you just don't know for sure. One reason I feel like it is an Abbey is because the cross section is flattened vs. the elliptical cross section of the Elora. The other is I took the measurements very carefully (after the post) and compared it to the Elora and Abbey cotypes in the Cambron Handbook - Alabama Archaeology, Peach State Archaeology, Projectile Points Net and Overstreet. Now I realize I'm new to this and these may not be the best choice for resources, and I would love to have info. on better places to find accurate information if anyone has some to share. I really want to learn how you do this! Anyway the point is out of the range of all the Elora's range of measurements except thickness which meets the minimum. It was way off the minimum length by 12 mm and way way off the average length by 22mm. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not arguing about what it is, I'm just really serious about learning how to identify points as accurately as I can. This resource has been really helpful as far as visuals of the various parts and physical characteristics of a point and descriptions of points that I might find in our area. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39974/39974-h/39974-h.htm#Page_46 and this is fabulous for explaining the terminology of beveled edges, Plano-convex, etc. Lithics-Net Lithics Glossary. Thank you for you response, I've learned a lot through our discussions with my "pasture points"

 

[Dirt fishing Wolf]

I always keep an eye in our horse pasture also, great find.

 

[NCPeaches]

Wow! It's a beauty! Your horses are doing all the work, saves your back! Can't wait to see what will come up next!

 

[sandchip]

Wow! It's a beauty! Your horses are doing all the work, saves your back! Can't wait to see what will come up next!

I keep holding my breath that Bear's luck holds out that the next one isn't a 5" Clovis snapped in half by our hefty hoofed friends.

 

[Hammer Stone]

Very nice find! You have some great horses lol. I'll be planting a garden near your area soon. Hopefully something will turn up!

 

[jamey]

i have always thought you were taking an educated approach to your collecting.

 

[redbeardrelics]

Congratulations on another very nice find ! I think it is safe to say that you have us all excited to see what turns up next in your pasture.

As far as typing goes, I would have suggested Kirk stemmed as my first guess, but I really have no idea if that type name is used in your area or not, and it is best to take the opinions of people familiar with your area regarding point types. Typology is by no means an exact or definitive thing that can be determined in most instances. Sometimes you can show a certain point to let us say 100 different experienced collectors and researchers, and you will get over 95% of them suggest the same type as a consensus. Then if you show the same 100 folks another point, you might get 10 + different opinions, and no consensus whatsoever. I always want to assign a type name to what I find, and as the years have gone by I have changed my opinion on a lot of my initial determinations, that is part of the fun of collecting and learning. HH

 

[sandchip]

I see what you're talking about Kirk-wise once you pointed it out, Red. The only thing is that most Kirk Stemmed/Serrated points seem to retain the higher length to width ratio as they are resharpened, but as you said, nothing is an exact science when humans are involved.

 

[BearCreek]

Congratulations on another very nice find ! I think it is safe to say that you have us all excited to see what turns up next in your pasture.

As far as typing goes, I would have suggested Kirk stemmed as my first guess, but I really have no idea if that type name is used in your area or not, and it is best to take the opinions of people familiar with your area regarding point types. Typology is by no means an exact or definitive thing that can be determined in most instances. Sometimes you can show a certain point to let us say 100 different experienced collectors and researchers, and you will get over 95% of them suggest the same type as a consensus. Then if you show the same 100 folks another point, you might get 10 + different opinions, and no consensus whatsoever. I always want to assign a type name to what I find, and as the years have gone by I have changed my opinion on a lot of my initial determinations, that is part of the fun of collecting and learning. HH

Redbeardrelics, you were correct according to the archaeologist who looked at it for me. He said Kirk too!