Advice requested: iron saturated historic yards

[brianc053]

Hi everyone. I've recently gained permission for some historic homes in my town (1700's era). One produced the flying eagle cent I posted about yesterday.
I've been using the Deus on the properties, but there are certain areas that are just saturated with iron targets. And because this is someone's yard I don't want to turn over all the soil removing iron to try to find that little squeak in the mid-90's VDI.
So I'm looking for advice on how to adjust the Deus for a saturated site like this. Could you share your thoughts please?

Here are my thoughts (I'd prefer to hear yours but want you to know that I've researched a little at least):
- reactivity needs to be increased a little. Is it OK to run it at 5?
- I think I should turn down Iron Volume. It's on 2 now...down to 1?
- I'm not sure what frequency would be best... (Oh, and these houses have power lines overhead, so there's EMI too...fun)
- would a HF coil do better than my stock 11" round X35?

I have a related question: is it normal to be digging iron that gives off a perfect clean 93 from one direction? (The same target will admittedly sound choppy/iron-y from different directions/angles).
I think I pulled 3 iron rings from one of the yards yesterday, and I understand that targets in a ring shape will fool any detector, but I'm shocked at how "clean" the signals can be (where "clean" = high solid tone, 90's vdi, no iron chop from at least one direction) with the Deus even though they're iron. I'm still learning to hear targets so your comments and advice are very welcome.

Thanks in advance for your help.

- Brian

 

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[signal_line]

My two cents here (this will provoke others to add their posts. LOL) The 11" coil is not going to get in between things as good as a smaller coil. EMI you are going to have to go through the frequencies (and shifts) to find what works best in your area. Different EMI requires different frequencies. Don't be afraid to lower the sensitivity if needed. Youtube has some videos on xp deus emi

 

[brianc053]

My two cents here (this will provoke others to add their posts. LOL) The 11" coil is not going to get in between things as good as a smaller coil. EMI you are going to have to go through the frequencies (and shifts) to find what works best in your area. Different EMI requires different frequencies. Don't be afraid to lower the sensitivity if needed. Youtube has some videos on xp deus emi

I think I'll have to start looking at the smaller / HF coils for the Deus.... I do have the 6" sniper for my Equinox, and I'm going to try that at this property soon.

Thanks for the video - I've watched some of the skill school ones, but not this specific one.
I've definitely been going through all the frequencies and Expert shifts to try to find the best ones; on some sites I find a quiet one, but at this specific location I couldn't find any that were quiet.
And thanks for mentioning the lowering of sensitivity - I've been playing with that a little bit to try to quiet the detector down under power lines. (I'm headed back to the location this afternoon and will update with a photo of the spot).

I do love how a clean target will "punch through" the EMI - those are the easy ones. But I suspect I'm missing some deeper or quieter targets when the EMI masks the signal.

 

[smokeythecat]

You need the 9" elliptical HF coil. And then it's not perfect. I had a screamer, thought it was a breast plate yesterday and it was a cannon- frag. I'll keep it. But...sometimes it's hard to tell.

 

[Tommybuckets]

Yea Smokey got me hooked on that HF coil for iron infested sites. It really zings.

 

[brianc053]

You need the 9" elliptical HF coil. And then it's not perfect. I had a screamer, thought it was a breast plate yesterday and it was a cannon- frag. I'll keep it. But...sometimes it's hard to tell.

It's time to go shopping, I think (for the HF coil).
I revisited the property where I found the Flying Eagle Cent after work today for about an hour (picture at bottom), but this time I used my Equinox 800 with the 6" coil, in an attempt to separate more effectively from the iron. I've got maybe 300-400 hours on the Equinox (only about 50 on the Deus so far), so I feel pretty confident - but nails (bent & rusty) still fool me.
I pulled about a dozen modern coins (one was a wheat penny), but nothing old and nothing very deep. With the Equinox I heard a lot of somewhat promising signals that were deeper (4 arrows+), but when I'd rotate 90 degrees I'd hear iron almost every time, so I didn't dig (because it was someone's yard - I would have dug every one in a farm field).

Another data point: my buddy used his Equinox on this property over the weekend with me, and he didn't pull much of anything.
But with the Deus using the X35 11" I pulled three silvers from the same hole at about 6" (any detector would have found them), a 1911 Liberty V Nickel at about 7" and the Flying Eagle at 7" or 8".

I still need more XP Deus experience, but I'm starting to feel like it's the superior detector on historic sites like some of mine. (And that statement is with just the X35 11" coil).

Thanks for the advice everyone.
- Brian


Check out this awesome late 1700's house and barn! The power line that gave me trouble runs from the street to the house; you can see it on the left side of the picture.

 

[smokeythecat]

Vferrari calls it my "little laser". You can't go FAST with one in a very trashy area. If you do that, you might as well put a pinpointer on a stick.

 

[pepperj]

Vferrari calls it my "little laser". You can't go FAST with one in a very trashy area. If you do that, you might as well put a pinpointer on a stick.

I have found that it doesn't matter what machine one has on the end of he arm a person has to like you said: "You can't go fast" In iron infested sites I have slowed to the swing down to 12 seconds from centre right-left back to centre on the average. Then the separation will come through even better with the HF.
I have used the little 4/5/6/8 inch coils on the Minelabs and have struggled in the past as it was like painting the side of a barn with an artist brush.
Now I find the smaller the coil the weight plus the amount of finds that are hidden in the iron out weighs the need to do the 5 acre a hour type detecting.

 

[Tedyoh]

I'd lower the the sensitivity down....like down to 80....then go through the permission again with it down to 65 to 70.....you'll pluck a few coins / high to mid conductive targets......almost a guarantee

 

[pepperj]

I'd lower the the sensitivity down....like down to 80....then go through the permission again with it down to 65 to 70.....you'll pluck a few coins / high to mid conductive targets......almost a guarantee

Does that effect the depth at all lowering it that low?

 

[Tedyoh]

Does that effect the depth at all lowering it that low?

Yes...but it's not as bad as you would think..... if it's a iron infested site as the OP stated, and you want to basically cherry pick, as the OP stated, there's only so much you can do....maxing to R5 is one thing, which he did....lowering the Sensitivity is another......the last thing you should be focusing on is depth in thick iron

 

[brianc053]

Hey everyone, thanks for the comments and suggestions.
I returned to the house after work today (just posted about it: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...t-after-work-1879-indian-head-penny-more.html).
I used the XP Deus again this time, and Tedyoh as you suggested I turned down the sensitivity (only to about 85). It seemed to help. I think the 11" LF coil was quietest shifted off the 16Khz frequency, but it still had some chatter near the power lines.

Keep in mind that I took my Equinox with the 6" coil there just a few days ago. What amazed me, frankly, was that I found so many more good items with the Deus today.
> With the Equinox I was nailing clad coins and pennies near the surface no problem, but I didn't pull a single deeper older target.
> With the Deus today I was separating coins from the iron and hearing them at 7",8" maybe even 9". I think the 1879 IHP was 8" down (a full pinpointer length). The little button I found was 6" down in the same hole as a square nail. I'm very confident the Equinox would have missed it.
I feel like I can definitely say that the Deus outperforms the Equinox (with 11" or 6" coil) on this site.

Now I'm really wondering what the 9x5 HF elliptical coil would do there....

- Brian

 

[smokeythecat]

Laser versus 60 watt light bulb. That would be the difference. I don't know WHY, but once I put the HF coil on, I never went back to that or any other machine. I have test driven a few other machines since then, but they weren't up to the task.

 

[pepperj]

Hey everyone, thanks for the comments and suggestions.
I returned to the house after work today (just posted about it: http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...t-after-work-1879-indian-head-penny-more.html).
I used the XP Deus again this time, and Tedyoh as you suggested I turned down the sensitivity (only to about 85). It seemed to help. I think the 11" LF coil was quietest shifted off the 16Khz frequency, but it still had some chatter near the power lines.

Keep in mind that I took my Equinox with the 6" coil there just a few days ago. What amazed me, frankly, was that I found so many more good items with the Deus today.
> With the Equinox I was nailing clad coins and pennies near the surface no problem, but I didn't pull a single deeper older target.
> With the Deus today I was separating coins from the iron and hearing them at 7",8" maybe even 9". I think the 1879 IHP was 8" down (a full pinpointer length). The little button I found was 6" down in the same hole as a square nail. I'm very confident the Equinox would have missed it.
I feel like I can definitely say that the Deus outperforms the Equinox (with 11" or 6" coil) on this site.

Now I'm really wondering what the 9x5 HF elliptical coil would do there....

- Brian

I guess the true way one can determine if one preforms better is to isolate a target. get the other machine and see if it picks it up. Do one area over and over again in the thick iron.

Perfect example was this hunt I had on the 14th.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/653468-1814-awesome-token-also-buttons-relics.html

The recovery of the 1814 token was with the 8" coil on the ETrac.
Digging out the targets there was the lrg iron knob in the bottom picture, the bent nail with the nob on the end of it. It was the depth of the token that had me thinking, not a slide off the shoulder of the hole recovery.
It was at the bottom 0f the hole and the pinpointer is a few inches down from the level ground.

I have been over this exact spot with the Deus HF coil at least 6 times, so was this just past the it's ability of detection. The finds scatter going down the steep incline is only 10ft wide, so it was an easy for gridding.

 

[smokeythecat]

What we do sometimes is when I'm digging with vferrari or such, one of us will find a target, and ask the other one over to see if they can hear the target with the machine. The results are why so many of my friends have switched machines in the last couple years.

 

[brianc053]

My afternoon is open; I think I’ll take the Equinox and Deus over to the house and do some experiments. I’ll take video and if the results are interesting I’ll post the video tonight/tomorrow.
I love this kind of thing - it’s way more interesting than a test garden (because it’s real)!

 

[brianc053]

Update: I did end up going back to the house this afternoon, and I took video comparing the XP Deus to the Equinox 800 on various targets.

I used the Equinox in Park 1 with a very slow recovery speed of 3 and an equally slow swing speed, and focused in on any repeatable higher VDI signals (17+). Once I'd locate a target of interest I would circle it with the Equinox, and then mark it and try it with the Deus. It was an interesting experiment that helped me pull out an 1886 IHP and a 1904 Liberty V Nickel.

A couple of notes on the video:
- I cut down almost an hour of raw video to like 27 minutes, but I realize I could cut more. The truth is I'm not a great video editor, so I did my best. I plan to make a v2 that's further edited and where I put some text on the screen about each target.

- My very first target was the 1886 IHP and I hadn't even started recording. That was my warm-up target and it ended up being the best of the day, but I didn't get video of it. I did get video of the 1904 V nickel though.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone out there. If nothing else you get to see how the Equinox vs. the Deus evaluate real-world targets in a real-world setting.

My conclusions: the Equinox is effective with a slow swing and slow recovery speed in this setting. The Deus is effective at covering more ground with a faster swing and faster response to targets. Both work, but have to be used differently.

Enjoy.
Brian