Agate Basin or Wishful Thinking?

[Hutch in PA]

Here are two pics of a knife found in Western PA. The closest I can come on Overstreet is an Agate Basin, though I sent the pic to someone whose opinion I respect and they said 'no.' What do you think? In the 2nd pic there are two points shown...I'm referring to the one on the right.

 

[Felinepeachy]

Well I don't know anything about Indian artifacts as I am just learning myself but it certainly looks very similar. I know someone will post a more definitive answer soon.

Merry Christmas

 

[11KBP]

The closest I can come on Overstreet is an Agate Basin, though I sent the pic to someone whose opinion I respect and they said 'no.' What do you think?

Although the outline shape is somewhat similar to an Agate Basin it definitely is not one.

11KBP

 

[Felinepeachy]

Can you explain what to look for so we can learn the difference?

 

[Hutch in PA]

The feedback I received from my friend was similar...the shape is right, but the flaking is not. Also lacks the basal grinding. I'd still like to know more. I Found this online...and the description of the Eastern Version seems to match. I'm not trying to make it something it is not. Which brings up the question: How does one 'type' a point that doesn't fall cleanly into a category?

General Description: The Agate Basin is a medium to large sized long, slender lanceolate unfluted blade which is usually skillfully made, especially specimens from the west. The basal edge is either concave, convex or straight and is typically ground. The blade edges are most often excurvate to slightly parallel with basal grinding extending from one-fourth to one-third of the length of the blade from the base. Basal thinning is usually not present. The cross section is typically lenticular.

In the central and eastern states areas, flaking on Agate Basin specimens is usually random with only a few points showing fine horizontal flaking. The differences in this flaking shows the influence that reached the eastern states from the west during the terminal Paleo Early Archaic transitional phase. A type of Agate Basin is found in many areas of the eastern United States however these points are cruder and lack the horizontal flaking most often seen in points originating from the western states. The eastern specimens are not as delicately made and the flakes are wider and larger.

There seems to be very little information in regards to the central primary distribution area of the Agate Basin type. However, studies of collections indicate that the point can be found in the following states: Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Minnesota, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Ohio and much of south-central and southwestern Canada.

The size of Agate Basin point can range from 63 mm to 128 mm in length. The typical width is less than 32 mm. Thickness averages 8 mm. The Agate Basin was named by Frank H. H. Roberts Jr. in 1943 for examples that were recovered from the Agate Basin site in eastern Wyoming. The point type was further described by H. Marie Wormington in 1957.

 

[Felinepeachy]

Cool, thanks for the info

 

[Road Dog]

looks more Guilford and also appears to have direct percussion flaking.

 

[Th3rty7]

"How does one 'type' a point that doesn't fall cleanly into a category?"

Alot of the time you simply can't type points into a certain category. There are many examples of unique points that dont fall into a specific category. I personally think that similar methods of production and similar characteristics are more important than general shape.


Here's an Agate Basin from Indiana. Earlier parallel flaking and a ground hafted area. On one side the grinding goes almost 3/4 of the side, you can see it in the picture.
Your piece looks woodland from the random flaking and lack of secondary retouch. Just my best guess from a two dimensional picture.

 

[Twitch]

Hutch - I don't think it's an Agate Basin for a lot of the reasons Th3rty7 listed and those you listed. Agate Basin would be a rare find (though they do occur) in PA. I own the Overstreet book as many people do and find that it is useful. However I'd say that less than half (maybe half) of all the points I've found fall into an identifiable type. More common is that I'll find a 'late archaic stemmed point'. It's not necessarily a defined type but based on general characteristics, flaking, context, material, etc. you can assign a basic time frame. The point you found appears to have the right general outline and flaking characteristics for a woodland blade. If you have found other late-paleo artifacts in the immediate area than your piece is close enough to an agate basin that I wouldn't dispute it, but as a stand alone piece I think it's hard to come to that conclusion. Just my opinion which is worth slightly less than what you paid for it. Cool find though, you've done better than me over the last week or two.

 

[Hutch in PA]

Wishful thinking it is! Thanks for all of the great information. There is so much to learn. I'll trade you mine for the Indiana version! Perhaps the best 'point' made was to put it into context with other items found in the area...most of which fall into the Late Woodland period. I will definitely keep that in mind going forward. I'm new to this site, but can already tell I'll be spending a lot of time here. Thanks to all.