Alaric's Treasure

[achanceforgold]

Has anyone done any research on the Alaric treasure?
Either offshore, where the ships wrecked or onshore, the tomb.

I'm mostly interested in discussing the shipwrecks. Exchanging ideas.

 

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[Crow]

Over the past few years, the mayor of Cosenza, Mario Occhiuto, has been focusing a lot of attention on the whereabouts and authenticity of King Alarico’s tomb. King Alarico, the King of the Visigoths, was famous for his role in the fall of the Roman Empire in the fifth century. As the legend goes, he died in Cosenza and is believed to have been buried along with his massive treasure under the Busento and Crati rivers at the point where they meet. To do this, the Busento River was temporarily redirected in order to build Alarico’s tomb in the riverbed. This was done using slaves who were then killed so that the location of this precious grave would be kept a secret.

Or so the legend goes.

In October 2015, Italian archeologists along with the support of local authorities began an official and intensive search for the treasure, enlisting the use of many technological gadgets and focusing their search on the sites they believe may hold this mysterious treasure. they found absolute nothing with all their access to best of technology, government support..

Here is picture of the river bed today.

I suspect the much vaunted famed treasure of Alaric is believed to include gold, silver and the Menorah from the Second Temple in Jerusalem, originally looted by the Romans in 70 AD. Was not looted from Rome. These sackings involved plunder, destruction, and sometimes violence against the city's inhabitants 410 AD. Led by Alaric I, the Visigoths entered Rome and plundered moveable goods for three days. The city was forced to pay a ransom of 5,000 pounds of gold, 30,000 pounds of silver, and other valuable items in exchange for the Visigoths' withdrawal.

What happened to the alleged temple treasure? well its been subject of debate for years. There is no historical evidence that Alaric looted from Rome the Jewish temple treasures.

So it was quite possible the Jewish temple treasure was moved to France. From 1309 to 1376 the the popes in Rome moved Avignon in France many religious orders followed. There is a Carthusian monastery in France that may of been a hiding place of looted treasures from Rome. They was hidden their until the french revolution and around 1793 Carthusian monks fled the French revolution during Voltaire's reign of terror to Spain.

Carthusian monks are Members of a Catholic religious order known for their life of rigorous solitude and contemplation They are known for their Charterhouses, which are monasteries inspired by the early Christian hermits and desert fathers. Carthusian life combines elements of both eremitical (solitary) and cenobitic (communal) monasticism.

Visigoth treasure was discovered near Toledo in Spain in the mid 19th century. buried in field. Believed to have been hidden there duting the Muslim invasion of Spain in 711. The treasure was alleged to had hidden there for 1100 years as the hypothesis of Spanish Archeologist Juan Manuel Rojaso. however treasure exposed to sunlight for 1110 years to me does not add up.

There was another hypothesis the treasure have been buried there by fleeing Carthusian monks after the french revolution when revolution was taking control of church properties in 1792. fleeing Carthusian monks took treasure from Avignon to Spain only to discover Spain In 1793, a Spanish army invaded Roussillon in the eastern Pyrenees and maintained itself on French soil through April 1794. The French Revolutionary Army drove then out. The fleeing Carthusian monks hid the treasure in abandoned ruined grave yard. yet war prevailed into Napoleonic era. And it was not until 1858.

It was August 25th, 1858. The night before had been dark and stormy, but this one was moonlit and clear. Francisco Morales and María Pérez were traveling on the road to Guadamar with their daughter Escolástica and a donkey when they reached the Guarrazar spring six miles outside Toledo. While answering the call of nature, Escolástica spied under the white glimmer of the moonlight a square hole barely covered with two flat stones. In the gap between them something shone gone. That something turned out to be a priceless treasure of gold crosses, goblets and other objects festooned with precious stones, pearls and glass. Francisco, María and Escolástica dug up everything they could find, rinsed the artifacts in the spring and quickly made off with their ill-gotten gains.

They didn’t know it, but they weren’t alone that night. Domingo de la Cruz, a gardener who owned an orchard near Guarrazar spring, had observed them digging up buried treasure. The next night, he went back to the site and did some of his own digging, finding a second, smaller collection of treasure. He too made off with it. Nobody told the authorities.

It was a hideous free-for-all. Within days unusual gold begemmed pieces began cropping up in the shops of Toledo’s famed gold and silversmiths. Many of them were broken up, melted down and reused making them untraceable. It’s said that one smith was so torn over what to do with a unique gold dove that he threw it in the Tagus. Gemstone trader José Navarro took a different approach. He had a yen for archaeology, so he bought numerous fragments and painstakingly pieced them back together, reconstructing the votive crowns commissioned by Visigothic royalty as donations to the Church, royals that can be identified with precision because pendant letters spell out the name of the exalted donors. Navarro did all this work under strictest secrecy. In 1859, his work as complete as he could get it, Navarro sold the crowns, pendants and assorted pieces to to Edmond Du Sommerard, director of the Musée National du Moyen Âge in Cluny, France.

That’s when the news of this exceptional discovery finally broke wide. Cluny published their acquisition in the scientific press and Spain was horrified to discover that incalculably precious cultural patrimony had been found only after it was lost. The Spanish government repeatedly demanded that France return the treasure, but was blown off by Napoleon III and subsequent governments.

So suspect near the location where this hoard was discovered in mid 19th century there could be much more treasure. The Carthusian order has at least 208 chapter house monasteries since the 11th century all over Europe including Spain. Their main charter house still exists today. it library archive has documents recording the working of the order back to the 1th century.

So perhaps for any one wanting to search for the most vaunted treasure of King Alaric I suggest trying to get access to the private library and archives of Cathusian order. I suspect the King Alaric was not buried with treasure at all his brother in law took over King Athaulf's. he ended founding kingdom and capital Narbonne in France. Visgothic treasure originally ended up in the hand of the Catholic church under the care of Cathusions in France until the french revolution.

The Spanish narrative fits Spanish agenda to make sure the Visgothic treasure belongs to Spain and not to France. These crowns was reassembled in 1859 of what the jeweler thought they looked like? So can they prove dates of their manufacture or who they originally belong to later Visgothic period?

Crow

 

[Crow]

The chief authorities on the career of Alaric and sack of Rome are: the historian Orosius below. this is a 16th copy of 5th century work.

and the poet Claudian, both contemporary, neither disinterested; Zosimus, a historian who lived probably about half a century after Alaric's death; and Jordanes, a Goth who wrote the history of his nation in 551, basing his work on Cassiodorus's Gothic History. here is his book below.

This is Just an example the type of documents you need to trawl through. This 14th century Carthusian script. inventories. Around the time the pope moved from Rome to Avignon.

As you can see nothing is easy.

Crow

 

[Crow]

The Visigothic Kingdom had multiple capitals throughout its history. Initially, Toulouse in France served as the capital from 418 to 507. Later, Barcelona temporarily became the capital between 507 and 542. Finally, Toledo in Spain became the permanent capital from 542 until the kingdom's fall in 711, when it was conquered by the Muslims see picture below.

After King Alaric's death Athaulf was unanimously elected to the throne to succeed his brother-in-law Alaric, who had been struck down by a fever suddenly in Calabria. King Athaulf's first act was to halt Alaric's southward expansion of the Goths in Italy.

Meanwhile, Gaul had been separated from the Western Roman Empire by the usurper Constantine III. So in 411 Constantius, the magister militum (master of military) of the western emperor, Flavius Augustus Honorius, with Gothic auxiliaries under Ulfilas, crushed the Gallic rebellion with a siege of Arles. There Constantine and his son were offered an honorable capitulation— but were beheaded in September on their way to pay homage to Honorius at Ravenna.

In the spring of 412 Constantius pressed Athaulf. Taking the advice of Priscus Attalus—the former emperor whom Alaric had set up at Rome in opposition to Honorius at Ravenna, and who had remained with the Visigoths after he'd been deposed—Athaulf led his followers out of Italy. Moving north into a momentarily pacified Gaul, the Visigoths lived off the countryside in the usual way. Athaulf may have received some additional encouragement in the form of payments in gold from the Emperor Honorius—since Athaulf carried with him as a respected hostage the emperor's half-sister Galla Placidia, who had long been his captive.

Once in Gaul, Athaulf opened negotiations with a new usurper, the Gallic Jovinus. But while on his way to meet Jovinus, Athaulf came across Sarus and some of his men. Athaulf attacked, captured, and later executed Sarus, continuing the feud between their families that had begun with Sarus and Alaric.

Jovinus then named his brother Sebastianus (Sebastian) as Augustus (co-emperor). This offended Athaulf, who hadn't been consulted. So he allied his Visigoths with Honorius. Jovinus' troops were defeated in battle, Sebastianus was captured, and Jovinus fled for his life. Athaulf then turned Sebastianus over for execution to Honorius' Gallic praetorian prefect (provincial governor), Claudius Postumus Dardanus. After this, Athaulf besieged and captured Jovinus at Valentia (Valence) in 413, sending him to Narbo (Narbonne), where he was executed by Dardanus.

The heads of Sebastianus and Jovinus arrived at Honorius' court in Ravenna in late August, to be sent forward for displaying among other usurpers on the walls of Carthage. Despite coming to terms with Honorius, their relationship soon deteriorated due to a new conflict caused by the War of Heraclianus in Africa. Heraclianus stopped the grain shipments from Africa, which prevented the emperor from delivering on his promise to provide the Visigoths in Gaul. Athaulf, in turn, refused to release Galla Placidia and his army resumed their hostilities against the Romans, taking the cities of Narbonne, Tolosa and Burdígala (present-day Bordeaux). In an attempt to conquer the city of Marseille, Ataulf was injured in a Roman attack led by Bonifatius.

Nevertheless the relations between Athaulf and Honorius improved sufficiently for Athaulf to cement them by marrying Galla Placidia at Narbo in January 414, but Jordanes says he married her in Italy, at Forlì (Forum Livii). The nuptials were celebrated with high Roman festivities and magnificent gifts from the Gothic booty. Priscus Attalus gave the wedding speech, a classical epithalamium.

Under Athaulf's rule, the Visigoths couldn't be said to be masters of a settled kingdom until Athaulf took possession of Narbonne and Toulouse in 413. Although Athaulf remained an Arian Christian, his relationship with Roman culture was summed up, from a Catholic Roman perspective, by the words that the contemporary Christian apologist Orosius put into his mouth, Athaulf's Declaration:

"At first I wanted to erase the Roman name and convert all Roman territory into a Gothic empire: I longed for Romania to become Gothia, and Athaulf to be what Caesar Augustus had been. But long experience has taught me that the ungoverned wildness of the Goths will never submit to laws, and that without law a state is not a state. Therefore I have more prudently chosen the different glory of reviving the Roman name with Gothic vigour, and I hope to be acknowledged by posterity as the initiator of a Roman restoration, since it is impossible for me to alter the character of this Empire"

Honorius's general Constantius (who would later become Emperor Constantius III), poisoned official relations with Athaulf and gained permission to blockade the Mediterranean ports of Gaul. In reply, Athaulf acclaimed Priscus Attalus as Augustus in Bordeaux in 414. But Constantius' naval blockade was successful and, in 415, Athaulf withdrew with his people into northern Hispania. Attalus fled, fell into the hands of Constantius, and was banished to the island of Lipari.

In Hispania, Athaulf imprudently accepted into his service one of the late Sarus' followers, unaware that the man harbored a secret desire to avenge the death of his beloved patron. And so, in the palace at Barcelona, the man brought Athaulf's reign to a sudden end by killing him while he bathed.

Sigeric, the brother of Sarus, immediately became king—for a mere seven days, when he was also murdered and succeeded by Wallia. Under the latter's reign, Galla Placidia was returned to Ravenna where, in 417, at the urging of Honorius, she remarried, her new husband being the implacable enemy of the Goths, Constantius. If king Athaulf died in Barcelona what happened to his treasury?

Note the main sources we have for the career of Athaulf are the 5th century Paulus Orosius, the chronicles of the Gallaecian bishop Hydatius, and those of Augustine's disciple, Prosper of Aquitaine.

Crow

 

[Crow]

king Athaulf successor king Sigeric (? – 22 August 415) was a Visigoth king for seven days in 415 AD. until he was murdered.

Political intrigue preceded King Wallia's ascension to power, for his Visigothic predecessor Athaulf who married Galla Placidia in 414 was murdered by his followers who believed him to be a puppet to Roman interests. Athaulf's successor, Sigeric, ignored the Visigothic rights of procedure to military leadership and seemed to likewise acquiesce to the Romans; such perceptions among his people quickly led to his death in turn just seven-days after assuming power.

Wallia was chosen to replace Sigeric in 415, since the Visigoths were convinced he would end any peace negotiations with Rome undertaken by his forerunners. At the time, the Goths' main antagonist was Constantius, the magister militum of emperor Honorius.

Like his predecessor Alaric, Wallia attempted to take his Gothic forces to northern Africa but ultimately "foundered in the Sea of Gibraltar", a failure that precipitated his suing for peace. Subsequently, Wallia accepted a treaty offered by Honorius with the Roman Empire. Christian historian and theologian, Orosius, reported that the terms of the agreements made in 416 and 418 were very favorable for the Romans, including the return of Honorius' sister Galla Placidia to him.

Now operating in Roman service as foederati, Wallia and his Goths marched against the Alans and Vandals in both Baetica and Lusitania with "dramatic success". These exploits against the Asding Vandals and Alans were at the behest of Constantius. Between 417 and into 418, Wallia's Goths inflicted considerable defeats upon the Vandals and the Alans alike; even killing the Alan ruler, Addax.[8] To this end, Roman writer and clergyman Hydatius recorded how Wallia, king of the Goths "in the name of Rome...inflicted a vast slaughter upon the barbarians in Spain".

For whatever reason, Constantius recalled Wallia's Goths—historian Randers-Pehrson suggests that the magister militum was alarmed and fearful of their success and then "settled them in southern Gaul."Nonetheless, Wallia's Gothic federates were "assigned" the Garonne valley from "Toulouse to Bordeaux" and the coastal strip along the Atlantic from Les Landes at the foot of the Pyrenees mountains "to the Loire in the north". Despite his success, Wallia died before he was able to leave Spain. yet his kingship moved to as per map i posted before previous and their capital , Toulouse in France that served as the capital from 418 to 507.

So the goths had 89 year in control of the region around Toulouse. So any treasury moved from king Alaric,to King Sigeric to King Wallia then onto Gothic heartland near Toulouse until 507.

What happened next?

 

[Crow]

This is where it gets hazy.

The Goths became foederati of Rome, and wanted to restore the Roman order against the hordes of Vandals, Alans and Suebi. The Western Roman Empire fell in 476 AD

Therefore, the Visigoths believed they had the right to take the territories that Rome had promised in Hispania in exchange for restoring the Roman order. Under the Goth King Euric who eliminated the status of foederati. A triumphal advance of the Visigoths began. Alarmed at Visigoth expansion from Aquitania after victory over the Gallo-Roman and Breton armies at Déols in 469, Western Emperor Anthemius sent a fresh army across the Alps against Euric, who was besieging Arles. The Roman army was crushed in the Battle of Arles nearby and Euric then captured Arles and secured much of southern Gaul.

Sometimes referred to as the Regnum Tolosae or Kingdom of Toulouse after its capital Toulouse in modern historiography, the Visigothic kingdom lost much of its territory in Gaul to the Franks in the early 6th century, save the narrow coastal strip of Septimania. The kingdom of the 6th and 7th centuries is sometimes called the Regnum Toletanum or Kingdom of Toledo after the new capital of Toledo in Hispania. A civil war starting in 549 resulted in an invitation from the Visigoth Athanagild, who had usurped the kingship, to the Byzantine emperor Justinian I to send soldiers to his assistance.

King Athanagild won his war, but the Byzantines took over Cartagena and a good deal of southern Hispania, until 624 when Swinthila expelled the last Byzantine garrisons from the peninsula, occupying Orcelis, which the Visigoths called Aurariola (today Orihuela in the Province of Alicante). Starting in the 570s Athanagild's brother Liuvigild compensated for this loss by conquering the Kingdom of the Suebi in Gallaecia (corresponding roughly to present-day Galicia and the northern part of Portugal) and annexing it, and by repeated campaigns against the Basques.

The ethnic distinction between the Hispano-Roman population and the Visigoths had largely disappeared by this time (the Gothic language lost its last and probably already declining function as a church language when the Visigoths renounced Arianism in 589).

This newfound unity found expression in increasingly severe persecution of outsiders, especially the Jews. The Visigothic Code, completed in 654, abolished the old tradition of having different laws for Hispano-Romans and for Visigoths. The 7th century saw many civil wars between factions of the aristocracy. Despite good records left by contemporary bishops, such as Isidore and Leander of Seville, it becomes increasingly difficult to distinguish Goths from Hispano-Romans, as the two became inextricably intertwined.

Despite these civil wars, by 625 AD the Visigoths had succeeded in expelling the Byzantines from Hispania and had established a foothold at the port of Ceuta in Africa. Most of the Visigothic Kingdom was conquered by Umayyad troops from North Africa in 711 to 719, with only the northern reaches of Hispania.

This is why the above treasure was believed to be part of the later 711 end of the expansion of Visgothic kingdom that was fluid moving over time across Europe. So this why it s hard to track down king Alaric treasure. was the treasure merged over time with following kings in their wars?see map below these kingdoms moved like snails across the continent.

One theory with treasure of Jewish temple treasure looted by the Roman remained in Rome until the was quite possible the Jewish temple treasure was moved to France. From 1309 to 1376 the the popes in Rome moved Avignon in France many religious orders followed. There is a Carthusian monastery in France that may of been a hiding place of alleged earlier looted treasures from Rome. The church over time could acquired visgothic treasure in Rome until the pope moved to Avignon.

The Black Death was present in France between 1347 and 1352. The bubonic plague pandemic, known as the Black Death, reached France by ship from Italy to Marseille in November 1347. From Marseille, the Black Death spread first through Southern France, and then continued outwards to Northern France.

The Avignon Papacy was the period from 1309 to 1376 during which seven successive popes resided in Avignon (at the time within the Kingdom of Arles, part of the Holy Roman Empire, now part of France) rather than in Rome (now the capital of Italy). The situation arose from the conflict between the papacy and the French crown, culminating in the death of Pope Boniface VIII after his arrest and maltreatment by Philip IV of France.

Following the subsequent death of Pope Benedict XI, Philip pressured a deadlocked conclave to elect the Archbishop of Bordeaux as pope Clement V in 1305. Clement refused to move to Rome, and in 1309 he moved his court to the papal enclave at Avignon, where it remained for the next 67 years. This absence from Rome is sometimes referred to as the "Babylonian captivity" of the Papacy.

A total of seven popes reigned at Avignon, all French, and all under the influence of the French Crown. In 1376, Gregory XI abandoned Avignon and moved his court to Rome, arriving in January 1377. After Gregory's death in 1378, deteriorating relations between his successor Urban VI and a faction of cardinals gave rise to the Western Schism.

This started a second line of Avignon popes, subsequently regarded as illegitimate. The last Avignon antipope, Benedict XIII, lost most of his support in 1398, including that of France. After five years besieged by the French, he fled to Perpignan in 1403. The schism ended in 1417 at the Council of Constance.

It is quite possible that during this period of termoil any treasures of the pope was held in various orders of Avigon. Some gothic treasure perhaps of king alrick treasure and even parts of Jewish temple treasures. One thing there was srage story of treasure being held at carthusian monestry at Avigon. that it vacated in a hurry by Carthusian order durig the french revolution in 1792. Did the monks attempt to transport treasure to Spain?

We just do not know but it would be interesting to see if there was any information in Carthusian order archives and records?

Clear with Italian archeologist their atempts at finding The legendary treasure of King Alaric, along with his tomb, has never been definitively found, despite numerous searches and archaeological investigations. The legend claims Alaric was buried with immense wealth, including items looted from Rome, in the bed of the Busento River in Italy. While there have been many attempts to locate the treasure, including modern technology and official searches, the location remains a mystery.

Crow

 

[achanceforgold]

The main focus of my search is not Alaric's tomb.
Which I think is slightly south of the old Citadelle.
But my focus is the ships that wrecked. I believe most of the treasure was on the ships and only a small portion is actually in Alarica tomb.

From Jordanes, who wrote a brief history of the Goth's after reading Cassiodorus Senators History. It wasn't just Rome that was sacked. It was quite a number of cities from Northern Italy down to its toe.

Then forsaking the journey they had undertaken, the Goths with hearts full of rage returned again to Liguria whence they had set out. When they had plundered and spoiled it, they also laid waste AemiIia, and then hastened toward the city of Rome along the Flaminian Way, which runs between Picenum and Tuscia, taking as booty whatever they found on either hand. When they finally entered Rome, by Alaric's express command they merely sacked it and did not set the city on fire, as wild peoples usually do, nor did they permit serious damage to be done to the holy places. Thence they departed to bring like ruin upon Campania and Lucania, and then came to Bruttii. Here they remained a long time and planned to go to Sicily and thence to the countries of Africa.

Now the land of the Bruttii is at the extreme southern bound of Italy, and a corner of it marks the beginning of the Apennine mountains. It stretches out like a tongue into the Adriatic Sea and separates it from the Tyrrhenian waters. It chanced to receive its name in ancient times from a Queen Bruttia. To this place came Alaric, king of the Visigoths, with the wealth of all Italy which he had taken as spoil, and from there, as we have said, he intended to cross over by way of Sicily to the quiet land of Africa. But since man is not free to do anything he wishes without the will of God, that dread strait sunk several of his ships and threw all into confusion. Alaric was cast down by his reverse and, while deliberating what he should do, was suddenly overtaken by an untimely death and departed from human cares. His people mourned for him with the utmost affection. Then turning from its course the river Busentus near the city of Consentia--for this stream flows with its wholesome waters from the foot of a mountain near that city--they led a band of captives into the midst of its bed to dig out a place for his grave. In the depths of this pit they buried Alaric, together with many treasures, and then turned the waters back into their channel. And that none might ever know the place, they put to death all the diggers. They bestowed the kingdom of the Visigoths on Athavulf his kinsman, a man of imposing beauty and great spirit; for though not tall of stature, he was distinguished for beauty of face and form.

They were stationed in Consentia, modern Cosenza.
They decide to go to Africa, by way of Sicily.
They loaded the boats, a storm comes up many of the boats are sunk.
Alaric is distraught and dies on their way back to Cosenza, they bury him in the river.
But what about all the ships that sunk laden with the spoils of Rome? Not just the city, but a good portion of the peninsula.

This would be the view of Italy to Sicily for the Tabula Peutingeriana.
A road map on a scroll.
The Goth's would have thought they could cross over anywhere along the southern coast of Italy. Not just at Messenia. the very tip of Italy and Sicily.

So, there should be somewhere along this coast, coming from Cosenza. A large number of ships laden with treasure. We know for sure the ships sunk. So much was lost, and Alaric was so depressed, he died.

To me that's the real treasure. Not his tomb.
Even today, Ferries run from Sicily to several cities along the coast of Italy.

The ship wrecks should be some between these points.

Thats where I believe the Menorah will be.
underwater for the last 1400 years.

and what's that box the Roman Soldiers are carrying into Rome.

The box before the Temple Menorah?
Is that the Arch of the Covenant? 🫨
with trumpets sticking out.
What is it?

Forget Alaric's Tomb.
The real treasures I think were lost at sea.

 

[markmar]

The main focus of my search is not Alaric's tomb.
Which I think is slightly south of the old Citadelle.
But my focus is the ships that wrecked. I believe most of the treasure was on the ships and only a small portion is actually in Alarica tomb.

From Jordanes, who wrote a brief history of the Goth's after reading Cassiodorus Senators History. It wasn't just Rome that was sacked. It was quite a number of cities from Northern Italy down to its toe.

Then forsaking the journey they had undertaken, the Goths with hearts full of rage returned again to Liguria whence they had set out. When they had plundered and spoiled it, they also laid waste AemiIia, and then hastened toward the city of Rome along the Flaminian Way, which runs between Picenum and Tuscia, taking as booty whatever they found on either hand. When they finally entered Rome, by Alaric's express command they merely sacked it and did not set the city on fire, as wild peoples usually do, nor did they permit serious damage to be done to the holy places. Thence they departed to bring like ruin upon Campania and Lucania, and then came to Bruttii. Here they remained a long time and planned to go to Sicily and thence to the countries of Africa.

Now the land of the Bruttii is at the extreme southern bound of Italy, and a corner of it marks the beginning of the Apennine mountains. It stretches out like a tongue into the Adriatic Sea and separates it from the Tyrrhenian waters. It chanced to receive its name in ancient times from a Queen Bruttia. To this place came Alaric, king of the Visigoths, with the wealth of all Italy which he had taken as spoil, and from there, as we have said, he intended to cross over by way of Sicily to the quiet land of Africa. But since man is not free to do anything he wishes without the will of God, that dread strait sunk several of his ships and threw all into confusion. Alaric was cast down by his reverse and, while deliberating what he should do, was suddenly overtaken by an untimely death and departed from human cares. His people mourned for him with the utmost affection. Then turning from its course the river Busentus near the city of Consentia--for this stream flows with its wholesome waters from the foot of a mountain near that city--they led a band of captives into the midst of its bed to dig out a place for his grave. In the depths of this pit they buried Alaric, together with many treasures, and then turned the waters back into their channel. And that none might ever know the place, they put to death all the diggers. They bestowed the kingdom of the Visigoths on Athavulf his kinsman, a man of imposing beauty and great spirit; for though not tall of stature, he was distinguished for beauty of face and form.

They were stationed in Consentia, modern Cosenza.
They decide to go to Africa, by way of Sicily.
They loaded the boats, a storm comes up many of the boats are sunk.
Alaric is distraught and dies on their way back to Cosenza, they bury him in the river.
But what about all the ships that sunk laden with the spoils of Rome? Not just the city, but a good portion of the peninsula.

This would be the view of Italy to Sicily for the Tabula Peutingeriana.
A road map on a scroll.
The Goth's would have thought they could cross over anywhere along the southern coast of Italy. Not just at Messenia. the very tip of Italy and Sicily.

View attachment 2204584

So, there should be somewhere along this coast, coming from Cosenza. A large number of ships laden with treasure. We know for sure the ships sunk. So much was lost, and Alaric was so depressed, he died.

To me that's the real treasure. Not his tomb.
Even today, Ferries run from Sicily to several cities along the coast of Italy.

The ship wrecks should be some between these points.
View attachment 2204596

Thats where I believe the Menorah will be.
underwater for the last 1400 years.

and what's that box the Roman Soldiers are carrying into Rome.

The box before the Temple Menorah?
Is that the Arch of the Covenant? 🫨
with trumpets sticking out.
What is it?


View attachment 2204600


Forget Alaric's Tomb.
The real treasures I think were lost at sea.

If you want to have a chance for gold, then you have to take in consideration the words " that dread strait " from the quoted text you posted. That detail in the text, leads to the strait between " the tongue " and Sicily. That strait is supposed to sunk Odysseus's ship, for this the name of Scilla given to a near by location.

 

[achanceforgold]

If you want to have a chance for gold, then you have to take in consideration the words " that dread strait " from the quoted text you posted. That detail in the text, leads to the strait between " the tongue " and Sicily. That strait is supposed to sunk Odysseus's ship, for this the name of Scilla given to a near by location.

very interesting pick up on Jordanes text, linking it to the Odessey.
But I challenge that portion of the text, "that dread strait"
Cosenza to Scilla is roughly 100 miles.
Supposedly there is 30 to 40 thousand Goth soldiers, plus their families and all the slaves and hostages they had taken from Rome. Along with all that treasure. So, they are travelling max 20 to 25 miles a day. Even on a good Roman Road.

Everything is loaded on ships, the storm comes, sinks a bunch of the ships, Alaric if he was on a ship makes his way back to shore, depressed travels back towards Cosenza and dies on his way. If they were at Scilla, that would be four or five days maybe more after the disaster that he died. Possible.

But I am more apt to think they were closer to Cosenza, at a port along the coast, the disaster happens, he is depressed, maybe wounded from the shipwreck, just can't take it anymore and perhaps kills himself.

I admit, that's a theory, that they departed from another port.

The departing port could actually be Scillia.

But that's a long way to travel back to the Citadelle of Cosenza, just to die before you get there.

 

[markmar]

very interesting pick up on Jordanes text, linking it to the Odessey.
But I challenge that portion of the text, "that dread strait"
Cosenza to Scilla is roughly 100 miles.
Supposedly there is 30 to 40 thousand Goth soldiers, plus their families and all the slaves and hostages they had taken from Rome. Along with all that treasure. So, they are travelling max 20 to 25 miles a day. Even on a good Roman Road.

Everything is loaded on ships, the storm comes, sinks a bunch of the ships, Alaric if he was on a ship makes his way back to shore, depressed travels back towards Cosenza and dies on his way. If they were at Scilla, that would be four or five days maybe more after the disaster that he died. Possible.

But I am more apt to think they were closer to Cosenza, at a port along the coast, the disaster happens, he is depressed, maybe wounded from the shipwreck, just can't take it anymore and perhaps kills himself.

View attachment 2204643


I admit, that's a theory, that they departed from another port.

The departing port could actually be Scillia.

But that's a long way to travel back to the Citadelle of Cosenza, just to die before you get there.

Challenging clues is the reason the most treasure remain lost. Go by the clues, and if it's not there, go by the instinct or logic.

 

[achanceforgold]

Challenging clues is the reason the most treasure remain lost. Go by the clues, and if it's not there, go by the instinct or logic.

Agree, Scillia should be on the search list.

 

[Crow]

Some excellent comments to move the alleged 30 to 40 thousand army with baggage train families. At guess going to need at least 140 vessels. A huge challenge they raped and pillaged all their way down Italy. No doubt taking food resources of the local population.

I read a version that Alaric had the same problem the Sparticus had. A large army to feed and no taking the food in the tip of Italy.

Spartacus, a Thracian gladiator, is known for leading a slave revolt against the Roman Republic, which began in 73 BC and lasted for two years. He escaped from a gladiatorial school in Capua with 70 fellow gladiators and gathered a large following, eventually leading an army of up to 90,000 slaves. Spartacus and his forces initially defeated several Roman armies, but were eventually defeated by Crassus in 71 BC

In the lower part of Italy there was not enough food for his army and being essentially and land based army. Alaric had the same logistical problem. thus I suspect the treasure ships was to buy grain from Sicily. So even if the original intent was to invade Sicily most of Visgoth army never perished at sea.

Even so these ships that sunk provide exciting possibility.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Markmar make a good point! the strait between Scillia and Messina about 20 km would be great place to start in process of elimination. you can see Sicily from Italy across the strait of Messina.

Crow

 

[achanceforgold]

Agree Mr. Crow,

The city of Rome had been denied supplies of grain by the comes Africae, Heraclian.
Alaric had no food, supplies except what they took from the cities and surrounding areas.

Some historians estimated, several hundred thousand of Romans had been killed or taken into captivity during the sacking of Rome. They base this on the bread allotment. In 408 ad the allotment was for 800,000 people. Ten years later it was only enough for 500,000 bread/grain allotment.
Africa at the time was the key source of grain.

Saint Jerome tells a story of how old women were being tortured by the Goth's to give up anything of value to buy their freedom

There was possibly 100,000 or more people in Alaric's caravan. The only place the Goth's could have sustained themselves for a small period of time was at Consentia, Cosenza. The valley area has a water supply and enough room to incamp that many people. With grassing area for horses.

But you are correct, they had to do something or starve. They had to get to Africa, where the food was.
Historians estimate, about 25,000 men left Italy and moved to Gaul. From the original 30-40,000.

So that means 5,000 to 15,000 men may have perished. Plus, countless others, family members, slaves, hostages. A massive disaster.

My gut instinct is the bulk of the treasure, or at least an unbelievably large amount sank at the attempted crossing and many people had to swim back to shore. Not carrying any of the treasure. They couldn't have been that far out when the storm hit, The Goth's where not seafarers. The Danube would have been their biggest water crossing.

But yes, Scillia is a great place to start and move up the coast from there.


Though, I'm hedging my bets on this area. Which would have been the closest seaport along the Roman road from Cosenza.

Sicily doesn't look that far away from here on the time period maps. All they would of had at the time. It looks pretty easy, like a straight shot. No closer or further than any place else. And this map, or something similar a scrolled map would have been available to them.