✅ SOLVED Ammunition brass!! Need help!

[SCDigginWithAK]

Found these at an old home site. The shotgun head stamp says Western Xpert and the other has writing on it but I can't make it out. The pistol/rifle bullet also has 3 rings on it. How old are these? This will help date the site

 

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[bevo]

Shotgun .Pretty good site.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Shotgun .Pretty good site.

It's not on there. Thanks for the site though

 

[BosnMate]

In 1898, Franklin W. Olin established Western Cartridge Co. at East Alton, Illinois, to add to his existing powder manufacturing business. In 1931, Olin purchased the bankrupt Winchester company. In the mid-1960s, the separate Western brand of cartridges was discontinued, and only the combined Winchester-Western name was used thereafter. Supposedly, at least in the early years, Western only manufactured 12 and 16 gage shells. I thing the Western Expert started being manufactured after 1931, but don't hold me to that. The other one I've never seen, but it sure looks to be a large bore, and perhaps it's a shot shell also.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

In 1898, Franklin W. Olin established Western Cartridge Co. at East Alton, Illinois, to add to his existing powder manufacturing business. In 1931, Olin purchased the bankrupt Winchester company. In the mid-1960s, the separate Western brand of cartridges was discontinued, and only the combined Winchester-Western name was used thereafter. Supposedly, at least in the early years, Western only manufactured 12 and 16 gage shells. I thing the Western Expert at being manufactured after 1931, but don't hold me to that. The other one I've never seen, but it sure looks to be a large bore, and perhaps it's a shot shell also.

Thanks now that u say that about the other shell I think it maybe! The opening is maybe the size of a dime

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Thanks now that u say that about the other shell I think it maybe! The opening is maybe the size of a dime

Never mind it's to small for a shotgun shell IMO

 

[BosnMate]

If it's about the size of a dime, if my memory isn't screwed up, that means it's darn near a 12 gage. The three rings might possibly be where the brass was crimped onto the paper part of the cartridge, which would have decayed away by now. If that's the case I think the shell would date back to 1900 plus of minus and would be relatively rare.

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

It's on the dime and you can see the dime

 

[BosnMate]

No, it's not 12 gage. Still might be the base of a paper cartridge though, we just don't know the gage now.

 

[steve s.]

Poss. A 410

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

I just found this on Wikipedia second one?

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Yep that's it!

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

Exact one too! Winchester xpert too.

 

[turtlefoot13]

I know that this is marked "solved", but can I add some information for a bit of clarification? I also have a question to ask. Does the 12ga have "Made in USA" under the word Western?

Concerning your Western Headstamp

1. As best as I have been able to determine, 1923 is the year that the Xpert line of shells was introduced.

2. I don't have years when Western Cartridge Company started manufacturing different gauges, but by at least 1915 they were manufacturing 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges.

Your .410 head.

1. I believe that you actually have a Remington Peters .410 (or possibly Remington Express 410).

Doug

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

I know that this is marked "solved", but can I add some information for a bit of clarification? I also have a question to ask. Does the 12ga have "Made in USA" under the word Western?

Concerning your Western Headstamp

1. As best as I have been able to determine, 1923 is the year that the Xpert line of shells was introduced.

2. I don't have years when Western Cartridge Company started manufacturing different gauges, but by at least 1915 they were manufacturing 10, 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges.

Your .410 head.

1. I believe that you actually have a Remington Peters .410 (or possibly Remington Express 410).

Doug

It is broken where it should say made in USA so I don't know. But today I found a New Club how old would that be?

 

[turtlefoot13]

It is broken where it should say made in USA so I don't know. But today I found a New Club how old would that be?

On the Western Xpert, "Made in USA" is right below the word Western. Most of the time, it is bold like this.



It is not uncommon to find it with just part of "Made in USA" - some seem to have a smaller, lighter stamp like this one.



In one of the pics of yours, it seemed like I could almost make out a letter or two and in the others, I was not sure.

I will need more info on the New Club.
1. Is it is UMC New Club, Remington UMC or REM-UMC New Club?
2. Is there any design around the primer at all? (single line, double line, star with a point at the 12:00 position, star off kilter, "backwards G" design, plain, etc.)

With the info requested, I can get you a fairly tight, accurate date for the New Club.

You have some great finds! I love seeing the shotshell heads found and posted!

Doug

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

It's in very bad shape. On the top I can see Co. And that's it. On the bottom New Club. There is not deign around the center.
It looks extremely old lol.

 

[turtlefoot13]

It is a UMC New Club (plain variety). Although the UMC New Club line will date from 1892-1910, your variety will date from approx. 1893-1900 +/- a year.

Doug

 

[SCDigginWithAK]

It is a UMC New Club (plain variety). Although the UMC New Club line will date from 1892-1910, your variety will date from approx. 1893-1900 +/- a year.

Doug

Awesome thanks!