An odd spoon

[Hotspur]

Hi folks,

This came into my hands a week or so ago and has been quite difficult to nail down. The fellow portrayed on the bowl seems 1600ish and the fig shaped bowl seems to fit that well. I'll try to attach legible pictures and add a little more of what I read as figural. The top seems like a cockerel more than an eagle and could relate resurrection. The fellow with the sword, I would think mortality and death. there is an opening in the stem of the spoon that hangs neatly for the three quarter profile dude to keep an eye on things.

From coffin spoons to apostle and teething thoughts, all I can say is that it does seem to have some memento mori symbology to it all.

Modern? Revival? I just don't know.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and possibilities, this is a weird one. It's about 6 1/4" in length overall. Edited to mention opening the images should show as 800x (new to use here)

Cheers

Glen

 

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[Silver Searcher]

Welcome to T.Net that's one nice spoon but can't help you with it

SS

 

[Hotspur]

Thanks for the welcome. I have been mostly a lurker here but do run into whatzzits myself and this spoon has me a bit loony.

The Dutch were fond of memorials and there are some other mentions to continental and very decorative spoons but I can't easily judge if it is truly old or some Victorian era revival or commemorative type of thing.

Cheers

Glen

 

[mojjax]

It might be an Apostle Spoon . Is that a fish i see ?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01626b.htm

 

[timekiller]

I'll look in some of my old spoon sites but the figure on the back almost looks like "Sir Walter Raleigh" to me! Maybe something to commemorate him.

 

[Hotspur]

It might be an Apostle Spoon . Is that a fish i see ?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01626b.htm

Thanks for the link.

I don't see a fish anywhere on it but the piece overall a nod to the religious. The top is a bird form I believe to be a cockerel with a blank shield on its breast. Yes, a Christian reference to resurrection. The middle is an armored/cloaked man holding a large sword (not an apostle I'm familiar with). I have a hard time thinking the theme of the man's portrait is anything but just that, a gentleman showing the ruffed collars we see from the Elizabethan era up into the 17th century when flat lace collars came to vogue. Armorial (family heraldry) spoons also appear but the ones that pop up are just not this elaborate.

http://www.larsdatter.com/spoons.htm

http://www.mfordcreech.com/Early_British_Table_Silver_II.htm

Those are just two I started with and have been looking through finished and active auctions. There are some other quite fancy examples of personal spoons but not a great deal out there for examples of memorial or mourning spoons. The English took it up late (after the apostle spoon era) in the 19th century but they again are quite a bit simpler. While it could be a later commemorative piece with a nod to someone , say Shakespeare or Drake (fer instance), I'd imagine I would find more than one.

Thanks again.

Glen



edit

yes Raleigh or any number of men from that period. If I can find more than one, I could agree in a heartbeat

 

[Hotspur]

A big one of the front

The first one of the portrait/back side will open in a new tab to the 1600x

 

[Silver Searcher]

I'll look in some of my old spoon sites but the figure on the back almost looks like "Sir Walter Raleigh" to me! Maybe something to commemorate him.

Good one Pete didn't see that till you pointed it out could also be Charles1, which would fit the posters first thoughts on dates

SS

 

[timekiller]

I'll look in some of my old spoon sites but the figure on the back almost looks like "Sir Walter Raleigh" to me! Maybe something to commemorate him.

Good one Pete didn't see that till you pointed it out could also be Charles1, which would fit the posters first thoughts on dates

SS

Good morning to ya! Yea he is what I thought of first when I saw it.Being here in carolina and all seen alot of his mug! But can't find a spoon with him on it yet.

 

[Hotspur]

I'd load large side views and more but I'm on dial up, so it takes forever.

As to the material, I have gone over this several times with a loupe and most of the reflections are just that. There is a scuff on the bottom that shows at least the bowl may be silver but the deeper I look under magnification, the less it does look silver there and just a scuff. The rest is not reacting like brass, then gilt and the weight is impressive. I don't have a gold testing kit (I work mostly on sword/blade rehab) and most of my tools are geared around big stuff, so I've no ultrasonic bath (hence my home brews). Too tough for lead and heavier than pewter. There are zero traces of casting flashing from seams. That would show on the sides unless polished/ground smooth but it must have been a casting at some point. I wouldn't think a late commemorative would really take the effort.

Cheers

Glen

 

[DCMatt]

I'll look in some of my old spoon sites but the figure on the back almost looks like "Sir Walter Raleigh" to me! Maybe something to commemorate him.

Good call on Raleigh. That's my guess, too. The would explain the knight and the bird would be a reference to Prince Henry's famous words, 'No king but my father would keep such a bird in a cage.'

I'm guessing Victorian revival demitasse or salt spoon.

DCMatt

 

[bradyboy]

Looks like you cleaned it?
Yikes
Brady

 

[Hotspur]

Looks like you cleaned it?
Yikes
Brady

Yikes to some mebbe but nothing more than dirt has been removed. If it had come to me green, I'd have a lot fewer questions. Tools and art deserve to be kept in order unless beyond hope. There are exceptions to that and a huge difference between even cleaning and outright renovation. Organics have been removed from the metal, that's all.

Cheers

Glen