Ancient Indian artifacts.

[ghost surf]

A excellent web site to check out for comparing arrow head finds and other Indian tool finds.


http://www.westernartifacts.com/paleotools.htm

 

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[Neanderthal]

That's a pretty funny site. About the only way you can tell if the tool is paleo, is if you find it in direct context. You will find those same scrapers on MUCH later sites. I hear all of the time about scrapers " it's parallell flaked, so paleo", "if the bulb is trimmed..paleo", "see the graver spur? Only found on paleo". Pretty funny stuff there..lol. You can find those same characteristics exhibited by later cultural tools also. In fact, I have noticed that probably the finest worked tools come from Hopewell or Post Contact cultures.

 

[ghost surf]

I said...Use it as a guide for comparing your finds....Overstreet Identification book is what I use and if need a real professional opinion, a museum or university where they actually have hands on learning and teachers for answers.I also use the pros here when they don't bite!




Quote {It is unfair that a man gets the hire wage, but women who does the same work does not! That freaking sucks!}
That needs to be changed!

 

[Cannonman17]

I would like to see what in the overstreet book you are comparing to your "scraper".

 

[ghost surf]

Well! I have one thing you don't... A real mystery....and that just thrills me.2 say yes and 2 say no...What more can I ask for when it comes to the real thrill of hunting.I think when hunting gets to fighting.... that is really sad and it does not look good to those who really enjoy this type of hobby.So with that I won't mention it anymore hope you won't either. Lets be the true adventurer and help people with finds that come to this site looking for assistance and not baloney.PLEASE!

 

[Atlantis0077]

Morning,

Don't get me started on Overstreets. I think much of their notoriety stems from the fact they are about the ONLY such publication. I will give them an A for photos and cross referencing, one of the better publications in any collecting field where pictures are concerned. I buy every new edition and each one has more and better photos than the previous, but I wouldn't call them a scholarly work, more a photo essay for the promotion of artifact sales.

As far as point values go, I find them to be over priced and that brings up another problem. People look at prices on the net and overstreets and it has caused a spiral in value disproportionate to rarity. Very little has skyrocked in value like Indian relics in the past say 10 years, and I think publications like overstreets has artificially influenced the market. This phenomenal increase in point prices has had a twofold detrimental effect...1) its caused all type of fakery to abound..flooding the market with cheap(as in valueless) points that are increasingly difficult to differentiate from ancient ones and 2) it has caused a huge increase in site destruction due to people only after a quick buck going hammer and tong.

I am afraid that all this will come back to bite us in the form of increased...in some cases ridiculous.....antiquities laws. There will come a time when it will be illegal to pick up a relic in any state for any reason.

In the mean time I guess we all need to just enjoy collecting as a wonderful pasttime and educational hobby, and seek to inform the public that not all collectors are out there destroying "valuable" Indian sites as is so often the way we are portrayed.

Atlantis

 

[ghost surf]

Ya right ok!

 

[Atlantis0077]

LOL,

Just looked at the Westernartifacts link......


According to them I have about 50 grand worth of "paleo scrapers" in my flower bed.

Thats where I throw all the crap that doesn't make the cut after a day of searching. Who are these guys kidding? Go to any site where points were made and you will find buckets full of that sort of material.

Guess I need to start going with the flow for a change....time to set up an ebay account or web page and fob off all my discards as valuable artifacts while there is still a gullible market....LOL

Soon to be rich....

Atlantis

 

[deepsix47]

LOL,

Just looked at the Westernartifacts link......


According to them I have about 50 grand worth of "paleo scrapers" in my flower bed.

Thats where I throw all the crap that doesn't make the cut after a day of searching. Who are these guys kidding? Go to any site where points were made and you will find buckets full of that sort of material.

Guess I need to start going with the flow for a change....time to set up an ebay account or web page and fob off all my discards as valuable artifacts while there is still a gullible market....LOL

Soon to be rich....

Atlantis

Hi Atlantis:

I agree 100% about Overstreets (great pics but ridiculous pricing with what I'm afraid will be inevitable results eventually). One of my Bannerstones appeared in their publication. It was banded slate and they valued it at $350.00....lol. Dream on.

I did find a use for the scrapers that I find. I have a large framed collection of them and eventually built up 2 five gallon buckets full also. My girlfriend and I set up at a lot of PowWows, Historical events and festivals. We give demos in Brain Tanning, Moccasin Making and the use of "Primitive Weapons". We also set up a couple of lodges (TeePees) One we camp in and the other we have set up to show what it was like to live in one. What I started doing with the scrapers was drilling them, putting a small ring through them, a piece of waxed cord and you have a necklace. Kids and adults both love them. The ones made of flint I drop into little kits I make up for fire starting. Many broken points I can fashion into "blunts" and they too become necklaces.

The problem is that to many people live in their own little worlds, closed off from reality, convinced that their own tunnel vision view of the world is the only way. Their preconceived ideas keep them from stepping into reality and expanding their own personal horizons. The shame is that these people are the same ones that will ultimately be responsible for our hobby in general being viewed as one that attracts nut jobs and thieves. This in turn leads to the inevitable result of laws being enacted to make it illegal. Have a good one!!!!
Deepsix

 

[ghost surf]

 

[deepsix47]

Well! I have one thing you don't... A real mystery....and that just thrills me.2 say yes and 2 say no...What more can I ask for when it comes to the real thrill of hunting.I think when hunting gets to fighting.... that is really sad and it does not look good to those who really enjoy this type of hobby.So with that I won't mention it anymore hope you won't either. Lets be the true adventurer and help people with finds that come to this site looking for assistance and not baloney.PLEASE!

Hmmmmmmm, OK, I'll bite. What mystery are we talking about and what fight. Did I miss something guys?? Also, can anyone define....true adventurer....for me?? I'm not sure what that has to do with being courteous and offering opinions about things you have knowledge of.
Deepsix

 

[River Rat]

Hiya guys,

I just looked at that website....

Ok, so what if I dig alot of scrapers/knives? They're my pride & joy, they're are displayed in cases. Needless to say everything found, was found on our property. I do have some great points too.

The main thing, they were made by Indians and they lived here...or camped here.

RR

 

[Neanderthal]

Overstreets is a good book for pretty pictures..that's about it.

River Rat - There's nothing at all wrong with collecting and appreciating scrapers. They are a tool and worthy of study. However, I find so many of them that I can't value or appreciate them as much as I probably should. But, that's for this area. I'm sure you find many things that would seem common to you, that I would appreciate and go gaga over.

 

[Atlantis0077]

Howdy,

"True Adventurer"......pack no bags, make no reservations....follow no previous tracks....carry no cell phones.....LOL

Of course that philosophy can just leave you lost with no place to sleep.



Atlantis

 

[deepsix47]

Howdy,

"True Adventurer"......pack no bags, make no reservations....follow no previous tracks....carry no cell phones.....LOL

Of course that philosophy can just leave you lost with no place to sleep.



Atlantis

By golly, I guess I'm a true adventurer....how about that....lol. You're right about the place to sleep except maybe under a tree, listing to the howl of a wolf and overlooking the edge of the world. The feeling is something that is hard to explain to those not fortunate enough to have experienced it. It's kind of nice if you take the time to look.
Deepsix

PS: One of my favorite lines:
Q....Have you ever been lost?
A....(rubs chin while thinking) Been a might confused for a month or two but I ain't never been lost.