Ankhs For Your Help

[mdog]

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[TD="class: kmessage-left"]Every so often, there is some discussion about the ancients. I've seen some avatars and pictures of monuments that look like people with Semitic features. I have also read stories of Hebrew carvings found in the southwest. I'm interested in this because there are theories that ancient Canaanites mined copper in the upper Michigan region during the Bronze Age. I look for evidence of this activity in my area even though I live in eastern Iowa. There were some late Archaic and early Woodland cultures that fashioned copper tools and other artifacts during this period. They also had extensive trade routes throughout the eastern half of the United States. In my research, I decided to give some attention to the ankh symbol.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh

All of the ankhs I've seen have had the T with an oval or circle on top of it. Then I ran across this link.

cryptcracker.blogspot.com/2012/07/royal-...-canaan-this-is.html

Looking at the group of 8 drawings, you will see that there are two ankhs in the third drawing that have diamonds on top of the T instead of ovals. Check this next link out. These are drawings of three, of several, shell crosses found in central Iowa close to an east-west trail I've been studying for the past three years. The artifacts were found at a Great Oasis site and date about 900 AD.

www.iptv.org/iowapathways/artifact_detai...75&oid=ob_000337

If any of you have ever seen evidence of ankhs in any ancient carvings or artifacts, I would really appreciate it if you would post pictures or links on this thread. North or South America only, please. I've read that there was a culture in Peru called the Moche who also used ankhs but I can't find any pictures.

Thanks folks.

Rick



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http://www.treasurenet.com/site/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=report&catid=22&id=10472&Itemid=183
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[Springfield]

 

[mdog]

Thank you, Springfield.

Looks like the ankh is on the right side.
Can you tell us something about the picture. Maybe a general location and who might have put it there.

 

[Springfield]

Thank you, Springfield.

Looks like the ankh is on the right side.
Can you tell us something about the picture. Maybe a general location and who might have put it there.

There's a second one on the top row, fourth from the left.

General location: near Silver City, NM. I don't know who created the panel, but it occupies a node on a very interesting and precise geometrical pattern comprised of some other very distinct signs, some more than ten miles distant. Is there a Jewish connection? ¿Quién sabe?

 

[mdog]

Thanks again Springfield.

The shell ankhs that are illustrated in my first post came from a burial that dates about 900 AD. Do you think the ankhs on the panel you posted were pre-Columbian or do you think that they were ancient symbols carved on the panel by Europeans after the conquest of Mexico?

Some people believe that cities or religious sites were set up on the same latitudes as important locations in different parts of the world. I don't know if there is anything to that or not but just for fun I looked for some obvious locations on, or near, the same latitude as Silver City, N.M. Silver City is 32 degrees 46', Poverty Point is 32 degrees 38' and Mt. Carmel in Israel is 32 degrees 44'. Poverty point is the center of an ancient culture of the same name in NE Louisiana. Some people who think copper was mined in upper Michigan by Canaanites think that the copper was shipped down the Mississippi River to the Gulf and then to the Mediterranian. They believe Poverty Point was an important center on this route. Mt. Carmel was a sacred site in Canaan. Just for fun.

 

[Shortstack]

mdog:
I came across a map in a book that showed a huge triangle overlaid on a world map that had Povety Point, La; Mexico City; and the Giza Plateau as it's3 points. I was just thumbing through the book and didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it at the time. Later, I tried to find it and damned if I can find it again. Strange. Have you ever found any connections to these three points?

I found an autobiography by the first Spanish Governor of Natchez (MS) and he wrote about rich copper deposites at ground level in what later was southern Mississippi, no more than a half days horseback ride north of Biloxi. He also wrote of ground level silver deposits in the northern half of what was later to be the state of Louisiana. I found an old Spanish map that actually showed the silver mine location. I passed that info on to a THer in Louisiana, since I'll never get over there to search for it. He told me that he was familiar with that area and was pretty sure he recognized the specific place from the description written in that autobiography. Both of these locations were in New Spain.

I point out that second story as proof that those old books can lead to good stuff.

 

[mdog]

Shortstack,

I've never seen the triangle you're talking about. It would be interesting to know why they connected those three points. Charliejr used to post maps that showed interesting connections.

My wife likes to go to antique shops and I always make sure I look around for old books of interest to me.

 

[Springfield]

Thanks again Springfield.

The shell ankhs that are illustrated in my first post came from a burial that dates about 900 AD. Do you think the ankhs on the panel you posted were pre-Columbian or do you think that they were ancient symbols carved on the panel by Europeans after the conquest of Mexico?

Some people believe that cities or religious sites were set up on the same latitudes as important locations in different parts of the world. I don't know if there is anything to that or not but just for fun I looked for some obvious locations on, or near, the same latitude as Silver City, N.M. Silver City is 32 degrees 46', Poverty Point is 32 degrees 38' and Mt. Carmel in Israel is 32 degrees 44'. Poverty point is the center of an ancient culture of the same name in NE Louisiana. Some people who think copper was mined in upper Michigan by Canaanites think that the copper was shipped down the Mississippi River to the Gulf and then to the Mediterranian. They believe Poverty Point was an important center on this route. Mt. Carmel was a sacred site in Canaan. Just for fun.

These carvings are precisely engraved, and there are similar panels in about two dozen remote locations throughout the west Mystery Glyphs - Home The administrators of the website would have you believe there is a mormon connection, but I don't think this is the case, at least directly. My personal working model would place the age of these carvings at 150 years or less. Is there a pre-Columbian connection? My opinion would be 'yes'.

I think you're on to something with your latitude idea. IMO, there is a very important location near the ankh panel in the Silver City area at 32 deg 53'. Of course, Victorio Peak is at 32 deg 55'. The measurement of latitude has been accurately done for thousands of years and would be easy for the ancients. And 33 is a sacred number to many. Please let us know your ongoing theories - it's a nice diversion from poodle rocks.

 

[Shortstack]

mdog:
Here's the website that I use for looking up old books. The Online Books Page What I usually do is go to their archives section, choose to have the books in alphabetical order, then start running down the list. I've found Marcy's autobiography on his explorations in the west and southwest. Also, a copy of the trail guide for the Oregon Trail, giving all stops and campsites as well as waterholes and dangerous sections for Indian activities. This is where I came across that autobiograpy of the Spanish Governor of Natchez. The books on this site are all downloadable in PDF format of actual page scans.
Enjoy, but be aware that searching this site can be addictive. OH yeah........I found several books about the Jesuits and their activities in North America here, also.

 

[mdog]

Four years ago I started studying treasure symbols because there is a place near me that has carvings and signs similar to what is found in the southwest. I've read about the Spanish and Jesuits and the wealth they accumulated and sometimes hid. After a time, I became interested in studying the trails and who used them and what products they were moving along these trails. Every now and then, treasurenet members write of the ancients and their monuments and there have been threads about the land of Ophir in the western United States and ancient miners from the Mid East who mined copper in the Lake Superior region. I decided to take a closer look at the history of the greatest merchants, traders and financiers of history, the Jews. I wanted to see if they took part, in any way, in the exploration of the New World. I think that if there were ancient Canaanites in America the information would remain with the Jewish community throughout the centuries. And if there were anything important to their culture here, they would want to lead the exploration and take advantage of the natural resources and develope trade routes.

HHF Factpaper: Jewish Traders of the Diaspora; Part I: The Persian Period

Here's a link showing the history of the Jews in Spain.

History of the Jews in Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's important to remember that most of the conversos converted to save their lives and preserve their wealth. They still had Jewish family in other parts of the world. Conversos often used their contacts with Jewish family and friends to continue the trade and activities that made them wealthy.

This link gives an example of the influence the conversos had with the royalty of Europe.

Cause for Canonization of Servant of God Queen Isabel the Catholic

Here is the expulsion edict.

The Edict of Expulsion of the Jews - 1492 Spain


Ignatius of Loyola welcomed conversos into the Jesuit Order and I believe that was a real smart move. Here's a link about Antonio Possovino. It might take awhile to pop up.

http://epublications.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1070&context=hist_fac&sei-redir=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Furl%3Fsa%3Dt%26rct%3Dj%26q%3Djesuits%2520purity%2520of%2520blood%2520law%2520possevino%26source%3Dweb%26cd%3D2%26ved%3D0CCcQFjAB%26url%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fepublications.marquette.edu%252Fcgi%252Fviewcontent.cgi%253Farticle%253D1070%2526context%253Dhist_fac%26ei%3D82o9UIaVIsGjyAHhmIDIDg%26usg%3DAFQjCNE3VozeFdyCEH_VnWpk2FYJhXXCVQ#search=%22jesuits%20purity%20blood%20law%20possevino%22

Whenever a religious order or a European monarch wanted to improve their economic situation, they made conditions in their order or country favorable to the Jews or conversos.

What's this have to do with signs and symbols? I've read many posts on treasurenet speaking of how symbols that are similar show up in many different parts of the world. The Jews have been involved in worldwide trade and finance for thousands of years. They would have to mark their their land and sea routes in such a way that outsiders could not discover them.

I'll keep posting more information about these great traders.

 

[mdog]

Shortstack,

That sounds like a good research link. I'm sure I'll use it. Thanks

Rick

 

[mdog]

Springfield,

Thanks for the link. I spent a couple hours reading and still have some left. I'm going to reread the articles. I noticed the ankh was used on several of the stones. Is the link you posted the only link that gives information about these carvings? I'm interested in the interpretations of the stones with the ankhs on them. I'll have to try to contact them.

 

[Springfield]

.... Is the link you posted the only link that gives information about these carvings? I'm interested in the interpretations of the stones with the ankhs on them. I'll have to try to contact them.

As far as I know, it's the only site dealing with the carvings. You may need to poke around the KGC forums for additional opinions about them.

 

[releventchair]

Great thread mdog, forum members. No stranger to some of your research Rick. Have read others thoughts,theories regarding eastern ties to copper in Superior region. Knowing your thoroughness i,ll wait and post when(if)i have solid material. Thanks for sharing. Keep finding those old trails and sail courses!.

 

[Shortstack]

The basic meaning of the ankhs symbol is "Life" or "Life force". It is the foundation shape for the symbol for the "Stairway to Heaven" as shown in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.

 

[mdog]

Here's a link about the Jews and conversos who were involved with the voyage of Columbus.

Christopher Columbus' Voyage of Discovery

 

[mdog]

It seems that Ignatius of Loyola was very tolerant toward men from converso families, even to the point of allowing them into the Jesuit Order. I think that was a real smart move on his part. If it was his intent to build an order with worldwide religious, political and economic power, he couldn't have picked a better group to turn to than those of Jewish descent. The Jews had the smarts to administer the new order, they knew trade and finance, and they had a worldwide intelligence network developed over centuries.

I'm looking for information about the involvement of the Jesuits in the Inquisition. I would like to know if they were as enthusiastic about persecuting the conversos as some of the other religious orders. I'm looking for evidence of any long term cooperation between the two groups. Cooperation that would be economically benificial to both groups. Nothing sinister or conspiratorial just good business sense, kinda like "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours and we both make a lot of money."

Thanks for any help.

 

[Shortstack]

Here ya go mdog, try this site:

The Jesuits and the Inquisition, 1540-1556 | The Protestant Reformation | Big Site of History ©

 

[mdog]

Thanks for the link Shortstack.

 

[mdog]

Friends, I got off subject. Sorry about that. I started out looking for ancient Middle East influence in the Americas and moved to the conversos. I plan on doing a thread on the conversos some day because it's a very interesting subject.

Springfield made me aware of a place in New Mexico by Los Lunas where a stone was found with ancient Hebrew inscriptions. I decided to play around with the latitude like I did in one of my earlier posts.

Mystery stone at Los Lunas 34 deg 47'
Spiro Mounds, Oklahoma 35 deg 18'
Straits of Gibralter 35 deg 48'
Knossos, Crete 35 deg 17'
Tripoli, Lebonon 34 deg 27'

Ancient Hebrews in America - The Los Lunas Inscription

Spiro Mounds - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Knossos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's an excerpt about Tripoli.

In ancient times, it was the center of a Phoenician confederation which included Tyre, Sidon and Arados, hence the name Tripoli, meaning "triple city" in Greek. Later, it was controlled successively by the Assyrian Empire, Persian Empire, Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Caliphate, the Seljuk Empire, Crusader States, the Mamluks, the Ottoman Empire and France. The Crusaders established the County of Tripoli there in the twelfth century.

Here's the link.

Tripoli, Lebanon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's where I let my imagination take off. If you were a trader from the ancient Middle East and you were looking for trading opportunities in this huge continent far from your home, would it be easy to follow rivers into the interior of this continent and set up outposts or trading centers at latitudes along that river that matched latitudes of places you were familiar with?

Any thought, pro or con?