Another eBay horror story...

[tenseventyfive]

So.. being as I dont want to overdo it with ordering from banks, I often search ebay for coins if I can buy them for melt value. I have purchased quite a few coins with only 2 negative experiences before today, one of which I recounted here before it got mvoed to "Other" This is my most recent, and I think it does belong here because ebay is something we discuss here and, I think, relevant to CRH'ers....
If anyone thinks I handled wrong please let me know...
Now bear in mind won this auction on Feb 12 and paid that same day through PayPal -

Dear jrfishbag,
Hi there - I see we are at the final delivery date and you havent yet marked the item as shipped - I have bought from you before so I am not that concerned, but I am wondering if there is a reason for the delay or perhaps you were unaware? Please let me know!
Thanks!
10-75

by 3-5 I hadnt heard anything so I resent it h this addon:
**I emailed you regarding this several days ago and havent gotten a reply - please look into this and get back to me** and get back:

Dear tenseventyfive,
I mailed the coin on 2-15. I will ck with post office. - I figure, ok, I had bought from him before so maybe just delayed - but then the next day I get:

Dear tenseventyfive,
I mailed this coin on 2-14-11. I have a United States Post Office receipt that states I mailed 5 envelopes that day and you are the only one that didn't receive the coin. - Im like "hmmm" to which I reply:

Dear jrfishbag,
I hear you - but as I said it was never marked as shipped here on eBay, and though the last time you sent me one I got it, this time I did not. I can assure you I would let you know ifwhen I got it, as I do honest business. That being said, as a seller, I had been losing close to 10% of shipments to "I never got it". I started using mandatory signature delivery, and what do you know! That failure rate went down to ZERO. I am not telling you how to run your business, but it worked for me so there is no question. Anyhow - as of now I dont have a coin from you, so I suppose you can either send me another, similar coin, or you can refund the money and cancel the transaction. Let me know what you want to do.
Thanks again
- this is true - I HAD to have signature confirmation on all orders and my loss rate went to 0 - I doubt a coincidence, and I was just trying to give this guy some good advice, learned through my own hard lesson. So I really didnt expect THIS, considering I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and a chance to look into it:

Dear tenseventyfive,
XXXX, I guess you taught me a lesson. I thought most people were honest. What you need to do is contact ebay and explain that you never received your coin. I will answer that I sent your coin the same day I mailed 4 other coins and they didn't have a problem. I will ask ebay how many lost coins you have reported so I can determine who is telling the truth.
- jrfishbag

Thus essentially accusing me of lyingcheating him, to which I take great offense:

Dear jrfishbag,
Lol - I relate a story telling you, how as a seller on eBay - NOT of coins - I was losing 10% of things I shipped, and you cast aspersions on my character. Interesting, especially since I gave you the benefit of the doubt, since we had done business before. The lesson you have taught ME is that the customer is NOT, in fact, always right, and I should have simply gone right to eBay and reported your item as undelivered rather than give you the chance to investigate and explain. Sadly for you, you never marked the item as shipped on the site, so whether you did or did NOT send it, I dont think eBay will find in your favor. Oh and as for the number of anything I have reported missing, that number is ZERO. If someone claimed they didnt get an item, I either refunded their money, or sent another one. As an honorable seller - which I think you should now question of yourself - since I had no evidence they got it I had to assume they hadnt. My telling you about the signature guarantee was a friendly and gentle way of trying to help you so in the future you can have peace of mind when a dispute arises. And yet you took that as a hammer to bludgeon me with. Well done sir!
Ill let ebay know, forward them your email claiming you sent it with a referral to the fact you never marked it as sent, and let them break the transaction.
You went about this totally the wrong way and my feedback will reflect that.
- tenseventyfive

Harsh on my part.. perhaps, but I dont think thats any way to talk to a customer who has repeatedly paid you on time, and without prior incident. I thought I was patient, polite, and gave him the benefit of the doubt right until the last second. I lost at least 10 items to this sort of problem until I removed all doubt on deliveries, and was trying to help this guy, and he insults me.

Id love to hear opinions if anyone has them!

 

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[SFBayArea]

Hmmm Interesting story...

I've been a seller of coins for a while now. I've mostly sold privately off of Ebay. All packages I've sent have all gotten there or at least no one ever complained about not getting it. In terms of payment, I prefer the old fashioned way (check by mail). I deposit it, let it clear, and send the items. Only once did I not immediately get a check from someone (the only check I got late was one month later). It wasn't the guy's fault either since I saw that it was postmarked a month ago. I know to cover my A$$. I always do insurance with items more than $25 bucks and amazingly they're all been delivered. I tell the customers what the shipping with insurance is and if they want the item bad, they pay for it.

I do find it odd that 10% of people say that haven't gotten their packages. Shows that people abuse the system. Recently, I sold a big item for a large amount of money and I didn't really even know who this person I'm sending is. I even took a photograph of the item just outside of the packaging box before I sealed it. The photo was taken at a USPS countertop with a postal employee holding up the box. If that's not evidence along with the receipt and insurance slips that you mailed the item, I don't know what is. I took the photos in case the guy said I mailed him a lump of coal. I did a minimum of delivery confirmation on items from $15 to $25 too.

Ebay is terrible for sellers since buyers can give negative feedback without any recourse. If you were the buyer, just file the unmailed forms to Ebay. The seller will have to provide evidence that he sent it (ie - his postal receipt). Through Paypal, that's why you have buyer protection. If the item was heavy, his receipt should reflect that. It always gives the weight on the receipt. If he can't provide it, then he loses. At this point, you'll have to go through Feebay to get your money back and unfortunately if he really did send it, he'll have to take a loss unless he had insurance, delivery confirmation, & receipt. That's the cost of doing business as a seller on Feebay.

BTW - what was the item if you don't mind telling?

 

[tenseventyfive]

The item *I* bought was a coin, from this guy. The 10% I referred to was from items I have sold - NOT coins, just whatever I was selling - I went back and counted after it seemed to be happening more than I thought possible - even for the Post Office. But like I said once I made signature confirm mandatory, I never lost one item - so you tell me what was going on. That said, I didn't like this guy's insinuation, that he was going to check with eBay to see how many times I reported items undelivered. First off, I never once did - as I said in my story I just refunded or sent another, and if that made me a sucker, so be it. But since I had done business with the same seller earlier in the month, and that history made me give HIM the benefit of the doubt, the least he could have done was TRY and come to an amicable agreement rather than passive aggressively accusing me of stealing from him. Alas - now his feedback rating is no longer 100% positive.

*shrug*

Civility counts with me.

 

[JoeSwindell]

Don't let it get to you. He sounds 100% like a scammer.

 

[jrf30]

may be his sign on should be "jr dirt bag" instead of "jrfishbag".

 

[mikeofaustin]

small story of my own, not negative. But, I often deal with people overseas (China, Viet, Japan, etc.), and when I do, they are often 1000+ sales, and might be about 99+ feedback. Recently, during the Chinese new year, my package was lost. I wrote him and he said, "Sounds like New Years people lost the package, I'll send you another". Despite me telling him that I would pay him for, at least, shipping, he didn't want it, and now, since the original was found, I have two items for the price of one. I told him that I will deel with him from now on for the items that I need simply because he is a stand up guy. One thing I learned a long time ago, is people in these countries do everything they can to make just 25 cents on a sale, and it's very important to them. They also realize the negative feedback will harm them, so they work extra hard to keep up their ratings.

 

[SFBayArea]

The item *I* bought was a coin, from this guy. The 10% I referred to was from items I have sold - NOT coins, just whatever I was selling - I went back and counted after it seemed to be happening more than I thought possible - even for the Post Office. But like I said once I made signature confirm mandatory, I never lost one item - so you tell me what was going on. That said, I didn't like this guy's insinuation, that he was going to check with eBay to see how many times I reported items undelivered. First off, I never once did - as I said in my story I just refunded or sent another, and if that made me a sucker, so be it. But since I had done business with the same seller earlier in the month, and that history made me give HIM the benefit of the doubt, the least he could have done was TRY and come to an amicable agreement rather than passive aggressively accusing me of stealing from him. Alas - now his feedback rating is no longer 100% positive.

*shrug*

Civility counts with me.

It's wrong for this guy to accuse you of doing something you didn't do or imply that. However, I would've waited for Feebay to determine if this guy had a receipt of the item sent at all before giving a negative feedback. Negative feedbacks cannot be taken away. I would definitely wait until everything is judged upon by Feebay before doing so. If this guy doesn't have any proof that he mailed the item to you and can't provide anything to Feebay as evidence, then you can NEG the hell out of him.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

You only have 45 days from the close of the auction to file a complaint with Paypal.

B

 

[tenseventyfive]

Re: Another eBay horror story... follow up

Ok so a little follow-up on that. At this jackasss' request, I opened a case with eBay and it got resolved within a day:

We let the seller know you didn't receive the item. The seller offered you a full refund of $11.10 to be issued through the same payment method you used to pay for the item.

Refund information:
A full refund of $11.10 through the payment method used to pay for the item.

Seller's note:
"Please give the buyer a full refund. I checked with the post office because I mailed the coin to the client, BUT did not ask for a signed confirmation. So tenseventyfive is sticking me. I guess people are not as honest as I am. I would like to know how many items tenseventyfive has reported not receving. Is this information that you can give me? This is the first time I sold coins on line and the Post Office said that 99.9% of all mail gets through. I sold 40 items and 3, according to the buyers did not get through. That is about 10%. This is very upsetting. Someone found a way to beat the system.I found out that they can tell if you paid for a return receipt by the amount of postage paid. So when I shipped for 44 or 64 cents they knew I didn't pay for a return receipt. If I every sell again I will charge more for shipping and handeling so I can track the item and keep the honest people HONEST. I am a frustrated seller. "

So right to the end this moron keeps accusing me of screwing him, then finds a conspiracy in the shipping costs - which I find ironic, since he SAYS it cost him 44 or 64 cents to ship, yet was charging me $2. Who's the cheat, I wonder? Oh well - he can now enjoy his less than 100% feedback, and perhaps learn a lesson in civility and customer service.

I am an honest guy and accusing me of lying/cheating/stealing really pisses me off.

 

[jadeblackhawk]

Ebay only accepts an online tracking number as proof of shipping. Nothing should be shipped without a tracking number unless you are willing to eat the cost of the refund. All the receipts in the world won't help you.

Nor will ebay tell him anything about how many cases you've filed, etc. he was just trying to scare you. Having been a member since 2002, the seller should have known better. Ebay doesn't care about the seller, his ranting in the case against him means nothing to them.

Of course, since he now has 97.4% feedback, I doubt ebay will let him sell anything anyway.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

There are lots of folks on Ebay with a 97.4% rating and below, and still selling.

Maybe I misunderstood - how come you didn't file with Paypal? Didn't you say you paid with paypal?

Beth

 

[Iron Patch]

I skimmed through this, but did I get this right... It's an Ebay "horror story" over a $10 coin? Plus what's the big deal with not marking an item shipped? I never have and never will.

 

[tenseventyfive]

I didnt file with PayPal because I never got a chance to - and in truth I didn't WANT to get to that point. I am the type to generally give people the benefit of the doubt to the point where it hurts me, and in this case, since I had bought from him before, I was trying to resolve it amicably and UNofficially - which is what eBay prefers, anyhow. But once he started accusing me of cheating him, and TOLD me to file it with eBay, I was more than happy to oblige.

Iron Patch - ok perhaps "Horror Story" is a bit of hyperbole, but what should be a simple transaction turned into 4 weeks of email, strife, and accusations, forcing official involvement. Totally unnecessary. And my point about shipping was, if youre going to claim you DID in fact ship it (and I am sure he did, probably), but then you dont mark as shipped on eBay, you weaken your case when it's your word vs. mine, showing either inaccuracy and or sloppiness.

 

[Iron Patch]

I didnt file with PayPal because I never got a chance to - and in truth I didn't WANT to get to that point. I am the type to generally give people the benefit of the doubt to the point where it hurts me, and in this case, since I had bought from him before, I was trying to resolve it amicably and UNofficially - which is what eBay prefers, anyhow. But once he started accusing me of cheating him, and TOLD me to file it with eBay, I was more than happy to oblige.

Iron Patch - ok perhaps "Horror Story" is a bit of hyperbole, but what should be a simple transaction turned into 4 weeks of email, strife, and accusations, forcing official involvement. Totally unnecessary. And my point about shipping was, if youre going to claim you DID in fact ship it (and I am sure he did, probably), but then you dont mark as shipped on eBay, you weaken your case when it's your word vs. mine, showing either inaccuracy and or sloppiness.

Honestly for $10 I wouldn't be dealing with it for more than 2 days, and which ever way it went I wouldn't really care. At times I do enough volume that it doesn't make a heck of a difference... and it's just not worth the time for $10.

Marking it shipped means nothing. I might have 1 buyer in 200 mention that to me, and that's it.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I didn't WANT to get to that point

After trying to work it out with the seller, that would have been my first "point" and usually the easiest.

IronPatch,

I understand where you are coming from, but, statistically, 80% +or - of all small claims (in small claims courts) are about "principle" rather than
money.

Beth

 

[Iron Patch]

I didn't WANT to get to that point

After trying to work it out with the seller, that would have been my first "point" and usually the easiest.

IronPatch,

I understand where you are coming from, but, statistically, 80% +or - of all small claims (in small claims courts) are about "principle" rather than
money.

Beth

Well I don't ebay for principle, I do it for the money and $10 multi message fights over weeks aren't worth it. Quite honestly when I read horror story I expected something like a story I read earlier where someone was scammed out of a 5k watch. It was a clever scam but sure sucked for the guy who lost.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

IronPatch,

I bet most of your buyers DON'T buy "for the money". They are buying it because they want it - you are selling it because you don't.

I understand your point, though.

Beth

 

[diggummup]

Well I don't ebay for principle, I do it for the money and $10 multi message fights over weeks aren't worth it. Quite honestly when I read horror story I expected something like a story I read earlier where someone was scammed out of a 5k watch. It was a clever scam but sure sucked for the guy who lost.

I don't care if it's $10 or $1000, if you paid for an item and you don't receive it, open a case against the seller. As an ebay powerseller I make darn sure that everything I ship is at least covered by delivery confirmation (.19 through ebay shipping page). If it's not covered then it's on me. I have no recourse but to give a buyer back their money. I would never acuse a buyer of lying though, that's just plain stupid. Scammers can make good money $10-20 at a time with multiple accounts and multiple buyers. The fact that "it's only $10" is what they rely on. Because most people (or alot of people) won't or don't bother to make a stink about such a small amount. Don't belittle someone because it's only $10, just because it wouldn't be worth "your" time.

 

[Iron Patch]

IronPatch,

I bet most of your buyers DON'T buy "for the money". They are buying it because they want it - you are selling it because you don't.

I understand your point, though.

Beth

No, I am selling it for the money because I didn't have to buy it in the first place.

 

[Iron Patch]

Well I don't ebay for principle, I do it for the money and $10 multi message fights over weeks aren't worth it. Quite honestly when I read horror story I expected something like a story I read earlier where someone was scammed out of a 5k watch. It was a clever scam but sure sucked for the guy who lost.

I don't care if it's $10 or $1000, if you paid for an item and you don't receive it, open a case against the seller. As an ebay powerseller I make darn sure that everything I ship is at least covered by delivery confirmation (.19 through ebay shipping page). If it's not covered then it's on me. I have no recourse but to give a buyer back their money. I would never acuse a buyer of lying though, that's just plain stupid. Scammers can make good money $10-20 at a time with multiple accounts and multiple buyers. The fact that "it's only $10" is what they rely on. Because most people (or alot of people) won't or don't bother to make a stink about such a small amount. Don't belittle someone because it's only $10, just because it wouldn't be worth "your" time.

I didn't belittle anyone, just said I would not fight about it for weeks on end, and post it as a horror story. If you buy any amount, and Paypal still has the same process for claims, (3 per year) then it's not real smart to be filing for $10. As for adding tracking that's great if you're shipping state to state and it's cheap, but International is a whole other story unless you're selling things that are high enough priced to justify registered post, because at the end of the day the seller is the one who is paying for the shipping out of their profit.

PS... And I think it's BS that the first thing buyers do if a package goes missing is accuse the seller... and TRUST ME, they do! And it doesn't matter if the seller has a very high all positive feedback.... It's "where is my item" or.. "Why didn't you ship" or it's just straight to PP to file because as long as the buyer doesn't lose money that's all that counts. (to them) I wouldn't be surprised if I'm the only one on here that has had packages go missing and took the loss without using PP. That happened to me before Christmas, was a package worth about $100, resale probably $150, and it never made it. I knew the seller was legit and had no reason to pick that time to rip someone off, so I took the loss, and will continue to buy from him. The bottom line is stuff happens when you buy online so if you only lose a few dollars be happy it wasn't more, and move on. It's not the end of the world. That's coming from someone who used to fight like hell with idiot ebayers until one day I decided it's just not worth it for the small amount of time it happens. Higher end goods you cover your a$$, low end, just suck it up and move on.

In other words I put myself in the other person's position and try to do the right thing. A lot of time sellers keep the shipping low and have no coverage, and that's better to me because if I paid registered on every package it would cost many many times more than my occasional loss.

And for the record I believe the $10 coin was probably sent. Why wouldn't it be? So just the fact the seller doesn't have tracking does not make him a crook.