Archeology Needs Metal Detecting Experts

[Terry Soloman]

From our good friend at Minelab, Kevin Hoagland..

 

[spartacus53]

Volunteering is a nice thing, I know I love working for free There is nothing in the world like having a business, or organization fully staffed by free labor

I'll agree it's nice to help, community service etc, but any labor should be compensated

 

[Graddick]

Nice video.

That's the ideal rapport between archaeologists and metal detectorists. The two can benefit so much from cooperating with one another.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm thinking this was pretty much done to further "fluff" MDer's into the whole archeological mindset. And there will be guys jumping on the chance to shoulder up. Before long the archeological community will have assembled themselves their own Mding support group to further help them strengthen their case for stronger restrictions against recreational metal detecting. I'm guessing Minelab clearly sees the constantly looming threat in front of them. Bringing the two communities together might serve Mindlab's best interest, but certainly not the best interest of recreational metal detecting community.

 

[Graddick]

Bringing the two communities together might serve Mindlab's best interest, but certainly not the best interest of recreational metal detecting community.

No, an attitude like that is not in the best interest of recreational metal detecting community. If you want to butt heads with archaeologists then you go right ahead. They will win. They have the law on their side. They always will.
It will then be harder for the rest of us to practice this hobby.

 

[Twisted One]

The wall between the archaeologist and the hobbyist, is we understand there is a potential for profit, and will take it if we can get it. Archaeologist understand that if a monetary value is placed on artifacts more people will be out there hunting archaeological sites. They also feel we don't know anything about these artifacts or how to preserve them .

I don't think any perfect common ground will be found between the archaeologist extremist, and the metal detector extremist, and unless they can figure out how to make it so we would get paid to help them on their digs, they will only get limited commitment.

 

[bigscoop]

Bringing the two communities together might serve Mindlab's best interest, but certainly not the best interest of recreational metal detecting community.

No, an attitude like that is not in the best interest of recreational metal detecting community. If you want to butt heads with archaeologists then you go right ahead. They will win. They have the law on their side. They always will.
It will then be harder for the rest of us to practice this hobby.

If you want to jump aboard their ship of ideas you go right ahead. But remember, the archeology community is all about the preservation of "everything"...........

The wall between the archaeologist and the hobbyist, is we understand there is a potential for profit, and will take it if we can get it. Archaeologist understand that if a monetary value is placed on artifacts more people will be out there hunting archaeological sites. They also feel we don't know anything about these artifacts or how to preserve them .

I don't think any perfect common ground will be found between the archaeologist extremist, and the metal detector extremist, and unless they can figure out how to make it so we would get paid to help them on their digs, they will only get limited commitment.

"their digs"........if MDer's start taking part, especially for pay, that's exactly where it will "all" end up.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Volunteering is a nice thing, I know I love working for free There is nothing in the world like having a business, or organization fully staffed by free labor
I'll agree it's nice to help, community service etc, but any labor should be compensated

Interesting take-away. You did catch the part where the detectorist started as a volunteer and is now a paid staff member? How many of us would JUMP at the chance to detect a historical area and have our names attached to a historical find? I would - and have! Pioneers and Extremists get bullets and beatings, settlers get the land..

 

[Terry Soloman]

I'm thinking this was pretty much done to further "fluff" MDer's into the whole archeological mindset. And there will be guys jumping on the chance to shoulder up. Before long the archeological community will have assembled themselves their own Mding support group to further help them strengthen their case for stronger restrictions against recreational metal detecting. I'm guessing Minelab clearly sees the constantly looming threat in front of them. Bringing the two communities together might serve Mindlab's best interest, but certainly not the best interest of recreational metal detecting community.

Pretty extreme BigScoop. In one respect I do agree with you. Minelab can read the tea leaves just like you and I, and they see a need to balance the general view of metal detecting now that it is under a full blown attack - brought on by badly thought out television shows. This "war" has just begun, and we (metal detector hobbyists) are very short on ammunition.

Shouting into the wind will not help our cause. Education and positive public relations, starting at the Elementary School level - is what Metal Detector manufacturers and hobbyists must focus on, and this video and others like it move us in that direction. I appreciate your anger and frustration, but focusing it on "volunteer" metal detectorists and moderate archeologists is counter productive.

For those of you that do not agree with comprimise and education, tell me what you would do to move our hobby forward in these unsure times of possible overregulation and community bans.

 

[ivan salis]

ok you can come and do all the dirty work for me (what a treat! ) -- you can spend your money on gas to get here and on equiptment , using your equiptment you can do all the work of finding and digging up up artifacts ( I will sit out of the pit as you dig ( I will do all the "archie data recording of the finds exact "location") -- I will then keep the find and all data to claim as "my find"--and for which I will hog the "find credit', most likely you will not even be spoke of if I talk to anyone about any of the finds you actually made , while working as a peon for free on "my project".

now that you understand your "place" in the plan as a "metal detectorist" --- ya'll come on down. -- you might see some great historical items very breifly --as you hand them over to me -- and thats what this is all about getting you mentally "used" to handing over everything to me --thus doing things the "correct" archie way.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Gosh Ivan, if that is how YOU see becoming involved with a historic dig, then all I can say is - Yahoo! I can proudly point to several items in museums in New York, California, Idaho, and Arizona, that I helped to recover with my metal detectors. Colonial tools, Musket balls and Grapeshot from the 1776 Battle of White Plains, NY, Idaho Gold Rush era artifacts, Native American jewelry...

To me it is not about being used, it is about being good enough to be asked. Again Ivan, urinating into the wind doesn't help us or the archee's.. Do you have any suggestions, or are you just another angry person that happens to own a metal detector?

ok you can come and do all the dirty work for me (what a treat! ) -- you can spend your money on gas to get here and on equiptment , using your equiptment you can do all the work of finding and digging up up artifacts ( I will sit out of the pit as you dig ( I will do all the "archie data recording of the finds exact "location") -- I will then keep the find and all data to claim as "my find"--and for which I will hog the "find credit', most likely you will not even be spoke of if I talk to anyone about any of the finds you actually made , while working as a peon for free on "my project".

now that you understand your "place" in the plan as a "metal detectorist" --- ya'll come on down. -- you might see some great historical items very breifly --as you hand them over to me -- and thats what this is all about getting you mentally "used" to handing over everything to me --thus doing things the "correct" archie way.

 

[bigscoop]

Terry,
You need to read the post again......it wasn't extreme at all, certainly not angry, perhaps, a bit frustrated. My point is that "there isn't, and never has been any measurable form of solidarity in the metal detecting/treasure hunting community". This is why we have lost, and WILL continue to lose ground. Show me just one credible, influential archeologist who has put his reputation and future on the line and joined in the fight against these progressive restrictions that are choking our hobby death? The path your suggesting isn't a new path at all, this idea of rubbing shoulders has been going on for years and all it's gotten anyone is more restrictions and less access to our hobby. What this hobby needs is a "much larger and widespread voice".....one that really stands a chance of being heard. The entire scope of our hobby needs it's own NRA, if you will. Unfortunately that's what it's come down to or it's all going to be blown away in the wind.

And as far as "settlers getting the land"....... ......I believe they simply rubbed shoulders with the native people and then took it from them, didn't they?

 

[bigscoop]

ok you can come and do all the dirty work for me (what a treat! ) -- you can spend your money on gas to get here and on equiptment , using your equiptment you can do all the work of finding and digging up up artifacts ( I will sit out of the pit as you dig ( I will do all the "archie data recording of the finds exact "location") -- I will then keep the find and all data to claim as "my find"--and for which I will hog the "find credit', most likely you will not even be spoke of if I talk to anyone about any of the finds you actually made , while working as a peon for free on "my project".

now that you understand your "place" in the plan as a "metal detectorist" --- ya'll come on down. -- you might see some great historical items very breifly --as you hand them over to me -- and thats what this is all about getting you mentally "used" to handing over everything to me --thus doing things the "correct" archie way.

"Exactly!"

 

[jeff of pa]

And as far as "settlers getting the land"....... ......I believe they simply rubbed shoulders with the native people and then took it from them, didn't they?

Ya Know there is something I'd like to see Proven.

Prove That all this Crap about the "White Man" being the Devil,
is Just "Bull"

Prove the Indians Sold us the Land Fair & Square,
& Then cried Fowel only after they had no more to sell

I Still wonder how much of our History is Manufatured
to Benifit certain Groups.

Just like if we're American we don't own the treasures in
the ocean Spain does. Now because we're American, we don't own
what's under our feet either ?

Sorry ! Personally I Own whatever I Find, until I Decide
where it goes from there

 

[ivan salis]

yes i do have ideals -- how about giving credit where credit is due to the actual "finder" which is often NOT done in many cases -- I have also personally given many of my finds over to a local historical measum and my wife often uses my finds to teach children in her school -- they just love to be able to actually see , touch and handle "history" in their own hands -- kids are often yelled at by adults -- "DON'T TOUCH" - LEAVE IT ALONE. -- WHEN IT COMES TO HISTORICAL THINGS --so touching and seeing things in hand and upclose is a real treat for them -- the 3rd thru 5th graders just love when i got to school and show them the collections of items , i gave my wife to help educate them with.

yes I am mad -- florida bill S 868 -- which is currently running in the senate --will turn archaeological control of all "publicly" owned land (including all county and city own lands) as well as state waters in florida * over to the florida dept of archies --who on their say so alone without consulting the local county or city govts will be legally able to declare any and all public land as 'off limits" to detecting to "protect the states archaeological resources" --ie anything over 50 years old == peroid which would make finding any 1962 coin or older illegal by the "50 year old rule" -- coins younger than me are "archaeological resoursces" ? please.

 

[bigscoop]

Jeff,

Look......the real situation is this.......a great deal has already been lost without most of us ever being aware of it until after the fact. Sure, you may have had a small group playing watch dog here and there, but it just wasn't enough voice or influence to impact most of these decisions. Now guys like Terry think the only remaining solution lays in becoming a part of that very community that is responsible for our hobby's demise because it appears to be the only option left, because at present, that reasoning is very understandable because there is no large, unified, organization to defend our hobby. However, jumping on that ship is also accepting defeat and the terms of surrender being offered. I just don't believe it's come down to surrendering yet, but if that one large unified voice remains absent, then it's sure to all go there anyway. So we need that measureable unification now more then ever if we want to "preserve" our hobby's "heritage". This is really all I'm trying to express...........

 

[deepskyal]

I can see where some might jump at the idea of metal detecting for pay at an historical site, but watching the video, he didn't get to dig anything. Simply go around in all metal mode probably and mark where you got a signal. Kinda takes the whole thing of metal detecting away. How could he get recognition for something he didn't dig, hold or bring to the surface to show anyone? None of the finds are his, just a signal location.

It's simply a paying job like any other that he acquired because he spent a month doing free work demonstrating his ability to swing a detector. Has nothing do to with any great, notable finds.

I believe this is the way archeologists would prefer all our detecting to be. We'll research sites, spend the time and money locating it, do our surveys to nail it down...then call them so we can detect it without ever having to use a probe or digger...they'll lay claim to that since we are all too incapable of digging anything on our own.

At what point does this go from being a hobby to being a full time mundane job? I detect for fun, not profit...unless I score something big on my own that is. But that whole wonder of what my detector is telling me, the curosity of what I will find, what I will dig up....I think all goes down the toilet as soon as you begin to work for archeologists.

I'm not saying archeologists shouldn't employ detectorists to locate sites and signals, I just personally wouldn't want a job doing it...it's my fun past-time to get away from my work. They need to leave me alone and allow me to detect the not-so-significant sites that I come across and quit claiming every square inch of the United States as some important historical site that needs preserved.

Al

 

[Terry Soloman]

...Now guys like Terry think the only remaining solution lays in becoming a part of that very community that is responsible for our hobby's demise because it appears to be the only option left, because at present, that reasoning is very understandable because there is no large, unified, organization to defend our hobby...

No, Terry does not think that at all. Terry, never said any of that. Terry, says we need more education, promotional and community participation events, and better public relations and understanding of our hobby beginning at the elementary school level, funded by metal detector equipment manufacturers..

 

[Terry Soloman]

Pretty extreme BigScoop. In one respect I do agree with you. Minelab can read the tea leaves just like you and I, and they see a need to balance the general view of metal detecting now that it is under a full blown attack - brought on by badly thought out television shows. This "war" has just begun, and we (metal detector hobbyists) are very short on ammunition.

Shouting into the wind will not help our cause. Education and positive public relations, starting at the Elementary School level - is what Metal Detector manufacturers and hobbyists must focus on, and this video and others like it move us in that direction. I appreciate your anger and frustration, but focusing it on "volunteer" metal detectorists and moderate archeologists is counter productive.

For those of you that do not agree with comprimise and education, tell me what you would do to move our hobby forward in these unsure times of possible overregulation and community bans.

See? That is what Terry said..

 

[bigscoop]

For those of you that do not agree with comprimise and education, tell me what you would do to move our hobby forward in these unsure times of possible overregulation and community bans.

See? That is what Terry said..

These things alone, as admirable as their intentions might first appear to be, are not going to have a noticeable impact on the progression of over-regulation and bans. This real battle is about preventing them from acquiring absolute control, nothing else, this threat has been made crystal clear to our metal detecting and treasure hunting community time and time again. Make no mistake, "This is not child's play". This about past and present court battles that should have had stronger voices, laws that should have been resisted by stronger representing bodies, etc., etc., etc. A few videos of a smiling MDer and a smiling Archie simply says, out loud, "Now this is the way it all should be done." You can count on seeing more of these videos as the war continues to be raged because the very last thing in the world they want to have to face is......"a very strong unified body" of represented treasure hunters, prospectors, Mder's, bottle collectors, etc, etc, etc. They've never had to face that before, and they don't want to. They want that unified body to settle for their terms of surrender. And deep inside, you have to know this is true.