ARE NEWER MACHINES ONLY GOOD FOR FINDING THE OLDER COINS........??

[Joe(TX)]

......I guess that I'm well rounded and enjoy finding all types of valuables not just coins......I like finding the old toys, tokens, farm equipment, old and new jewelry, old bottles and old marbles just to name a fraction of what we can and do find everyday!!.............At least to me it sounds like at least the Coin Hunter in our midst is CHERRYPICKING ..........his designated sites and really do not want to be bothered by the readouts that could be Gold Rings and Nickels, also will not dig the Pulltab or the Foil Signals...........this can easily be done today with either the Whites Spectra V3 or the Minelab E-Trac!!..............Now I am not against this ......it has been going on since the invention of the Discriminator Circuit!!................What I am bothered by is that some are touting these Newer Machines and Claiming that they are so Superior to all of the rest just because of their High Silver Coin Count!!...........................Some people are not trying to get a High Silver Coin count because they are also after all of the other type Goodies mentioned already!!...........JUST ANOTHER VIEW FROM ANOTHER ANGLE.....................LOL...............and HH..........Joe

 

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[Nick A]

Hi Joe, like you I love the older Compass machines we both have extensive collections. I also love the newer technology. I live in an area with a population of just over 1200 people so I have to be pretty diverse on the sites I detect. Or get in the car and drive 50 miles to the nearest city. Locally I have an old fairgrounds a couple newer small parks, some pastures that yield civil war bullets, buttons and whatever else happens to turn up and ton's of old homesteads long forgotten buried back in the woods. I have managed to dig almost 300 silver coins this year alone with the Etrac. WOOHOO. Next year that won't happen because I have exhausted my sites of silver that the Etrac can reach. Guess what I still go back with the old Compass's and find silver I've missed with the Etrac in areas I have litterally wore out with every big and small coil available for the Etrac.
The Etrac is a great machine but have you all tried it on rough plowed fields if so you will know what I mean it is for lack of better words terrible. The Etrac hates disturbed soil and air between the coil and ground. The F75 on the other hand is great in this area and just as deep as the the Etrac a heck of alot faster. I've hear how well the Etrac will seperate in the Iron it does very well but it's no match for a Compass. The old Compass will clean it's clock with ease.
What I have found is each machine has it's strengths and weakness's.
If your looking for deep coins in an old park then get a Minelab
If you want a relic monster get the Nautilus, old 1266 or F75
If you want a machine that will cope well with the nastiest iron sites the F75, Goldmaxx, and Compass machines are your huckleberries.
If you want an all around machine get a Whites.
Yesterday I hunted an area that was trashy beyond belief. I started hunting the cleanest part of it with the Etrac and a 6" coil. I found a couple of wheat pennies in this small area but soon gave up as the ground had just been dozed and was rough and unlevel with roots and rocks sticking out everywhere. I put away the Etrac and got out my little Compass Liberty 50 and started popping coins and relics out with ease that the Etrac was really struggling on.
I think conditions, purpose and intended targets all have a lot to do with my machine of choice.
Different machines shine in different areas.
I compare the old Compass machines to the likes of a Fender tube amplifier with a hot Fender Telecaster/Stratocaster cooking through it. Theres a certain warmth or nostalgia that the old analog technology has to it. For the non musician a 57 Chevy or 68 Camaro pounding the ground with a hot Small/Big block verses a new Corvette/Mustang with it's refined 400-500 hp.
I guess the old Compass machines are the muscle cars of detectors.
Will they find the old coins? Yes Will they find the old coins as deep as the Etrac? No
Will they find the old coins that are highly masked that the Etrac won't? Yes
Do I like the old or new technology best. Can I like both?

Dang, you have a lot of detectors! That's a big investment. That's a lot of machines to be expert or proficient in using! I have been detecting a long time and even for me, it takes a few hundred hours before I truly know a machine well and am in tune with it's full capabilities.

Now we're going to get all brand and model specific here, which I was trying not to do. I'm surprised you feel that the E-Trac will not find masked items. I find that the E-Trac does an excellent job of separating targets and finding masked items. I am many times finding coins in holes with iron around or on top of them, as well as coins in holes with pull tabs. The other areas in which the Explorer and E-Trac have excelled is giving an accurate "dig me" signal on coin spills. I have friends who hunt plowed fields and get good results.

"I've hear how well the Etrac will seperate in the Iron it does very well but it's no match for a Compass. The old Compass will clean it's clock with ease." But the Compass is lacking in the depth department. And not all the trash is iron, there's all sorts of metal "trash" in the ground. At a site that has not been beaten to death with other machines, including a Compass, what's going to give me an edge? The newer machine, as it has not been hunted to death with the latest machine.

Another point, if the Compass machines are such holy grails, why are they not still made? Why has another manufacturer not found a way to make these magic wands? Surely, they could buy the rights to any proprietary information necessary or reverse engineer a unit and make them available again.

Nostalgia for old cars and amps is great, and I understand that. But if I want a functional and reliable machine, I'm going to choose the newer one. If I want a functional and reliable car to drive every day, I drive a newer car, not a 20 year old one. I have an old car and a new car... there was a point where my old car became too expensive to repair and needed more frequent repairs and I purchased a newer car. Overall it cost less, and works much better. I still like my old car, but it's not practical or efficacious.

 

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[Nick A]

Digger do me a favor bury a silver dime at 4 inches fill 2 inches of dirt in the hole on top the silver dime then take two or three rusty iron nails put them over the silver dime then fill the rest of the dirt back in the hole. Now wave the Etrac over it and let me know your results.

I have found silver coins and copper coins in holes with nails on top with the E-Trac. The meter did not register properly, but the sound was good and repeatable from both directions in the three holes I am specifically thinking of (but there have been others). After the coins were removed, the rusty nails or bottle caps were in the plug above the coins (I looked).

 

[Nick A]

..........I BLAME BOTH.....................How else would you get a high silver coin count...........and then using the high silver coin count to say that my new detector is better than your old detector.........seems like you are preaching too or at least defending that idealogy.........I could Cherry Pick also even with an older machine.....but I enjoy finding the old relics, bullets, rings, etc.........CHERRY PICKING IS NOT THE PROBLEM............it is using that system to find a lot of a particular category of targets such as in this case......old coins.....and then saying the new detectors must be better than the old detectors since the count on old coins is so high!!..........HH......Joe

Aha! I think we get at the misunderstanding! My newer detector is not better solely because of higher silver coin count. My detector is excellent at finding silver in my sites though, so if you want silver from my kind of sites (as many do) then my particular brand of newer detector is great. My machine will ALSO find relics, bullets, rings, etc. I could just as easily cherrypick the relics or rings and not dig coins. There are many dedicated ring hunters who do just that, they look for ring signals, not coin signals!

So now, Joe, I'll go ahead and say it, a newer machine is better than your older machine because it gets a large number of silver coins, PLUS old copper coins, tokens, relics, bullets, rings, etc. It's better because it gets all the stuff the old machine will detect AND as a bonus gets a large number of silver coins. Just because we talk about the silver more, doesn't mean it's all we find.

Your argument Joe, seems to be about the way we detect, "dig all" vs. "cherrypicking," NOT about new vs. old detectors. Even though you say cherrypicking is not the problem. Let's talk about cherrypicking for a minute...

"Dig all" unfortunately is not a responsible way to metal detect on public property, and that's where a majority of my detecting is done. I cannot justify digging and leaving plugs (neat and tidy) over a vast amount of area in a public park. On private property with permission, this would be fine.

There is a serious threat to our hobby and the biggest complaint we face is "they dig holes" and "they make a mess" - this is what I have repeatedly heard in my research of metal detecting laws and rules. So, I am a cherrypicker because I want to be a responsible detector user and not abuse my privilege. I want others to be able to enjoy the hobby as well and not be banned from their local parks.

Another point is what is a better all around detector? John mentions this in his post. Some machines are better for a particular type of detecting, as he describes. Overall I agree with his assessments of what machines are good for certain types of detecting. I don't think any older machine will meet the standard for a good "everything" machine. Each have their strengths. So to judge old vs. new based on one characteristic (i.e. Compass is good in iron) is not a good basis of comparison. Just as saying newer machines are only good for older coins (i.e. Minelab detectors find silver), is a limited argument.

Can newer detectors be better cherrypickers? Yes.
Do I want a better cherrypicker? Yes.
Can I cherrypick coins, relics, jewelry and bullets? Yes.
And back to the original question... are newer detectors only good for finding old coins? No.
Will a newer detector find more targets of any sort than an old one? Yes.

How would you answer these questions?
If a newer detector will find more targets of any sort than an old one make it better?
If a newer detector also has better ID capabilities does that make it better?
If a newer detector find more older coins does that make it better?

 

[john37115]

Nick have you ever used a Compass machine and if so did you become proficient with it? Have you ever used a Wilson machine? Do you hunt mostly parks or other enviroments?
I think you have misunderstood my point. I like you have found the Etrac to be a great machine as well as the Explorers, Sovereigns and Musketeers. I have made many amazing finds with each of these machines. The Etrac does do well with picking through trash I agree with you there. I like you have found the brunt of my silver coins in an old park setting that has been hammered to the point that other detectorist have wrote it off years ago as hunted out. I have found silver coins with nails welded to them or in the hole with a big rusty bolt and been amazed at how great this machine was and how great of a detectorist I must have been to have found them.
I make several detecting trips a year hunting to different parts of the United States and Canada. I have discovered that in different areas of the world, same targets can sound very differently. I thought I was as good as anyone with the Etrac until I took the machine to other parts of the country. I found that iron ore changes and ground minerals change depending on the part of the country your in. I rarely dig a piece of iron or aluminum in Tennessee but in Ontario Canada, Buffalo NY, Louisville Ky, Tulsa Oklahoma, Jackson Mississippi, Shreveport Louisiana it takes me 2 or 3 days of detecting to get to where I semi-accurately identify iron or aluminum and not dig it. Take a trip to another distant locale and I think you'll understand what I'm talking about.
In rough plowed farm fields apparently you didn't have some one beside you cleaning your clock with an old machine. I have had this happen on multiple occasions. Going directly behind me over the same areas that I had just been over with the Etrac digging coin after coin and button after button that me MR ETRAC MASTER had just left in the ground.
Trust me there are some enviroments that the Etrac is not all that.
Will the Etrac correctly identify deep targets better? Without a doubt
Now let's be realistic, I like you have a high silver coin count but how many of those coins have you dug that were 5" - 6" deep verses how many were 10" - 12" deep?
I bet at least 70% of these coins fell in the 5" to 6" range.
This alone is a true testament to the Etrac's ability unmask targets that other detectors/ist have missed. If you agree to the above statement then you must agree that MASKING not DEPTH is at least 70% of the battle. Not to discount depth but it's truely not everything.
I think your a great detectorist, you would have to be to have found all the silver you have located. My hat's off to you.
Can I go behind you with a Tesoro, Compass, Wilson, Whites and find coins or valuable relics you've missed YOU BETCHA.....
Could you go behind me or Joe with the Etrac and us with the Compass and find coins or valuable relics we've missed? Without a doubt.
Could I go behind you with the Etrac and you with the Etrac and finds deep silver you left in the ground. I would say so
Or if you stepped behind me with us both on Etrac's and you find a deepie I missed. I would bet money on it.
This comes back to you can't get it all. I just like to have more in my tool box than a sledge hammer sometimes a tack hammer does a much better job
If you hunt parks 90% of the time stick to the Etrac don't sway.
If you would come hunt with me at some of my old homestead sites I promise you it wouldn't take long for your to start doubting the mighty Etrac.
I am not brand specific by no means I own and enjoy many brands and have found that a person of average intelligence can become proficient on multiple machines but not without A LOT of time in the field.
Ask yourself with all the different machines out there why is there still a market for the older machines. I happen to know many guys that can afford the latest and greatest that still prefer the older machines. Why can I sell an old outdated obsolete Compass for near the same money as a barely used F75? Dog gone there must be a reason...

 

[Digger]

I completely agree, the right tool for the right job. Even the older detectors probably have a place in the tool shed. As for myself, I've owned and used many of these tools and the one I need right now is the one for deep silver. That is why I bought the E-Trac. I have my universal tool(DFX) for everything else.

 

[Joe(TX)]

.......NICK A.......I guess that you only see what you want to see...........Reread my posts I never said "DIG ALL".........I am just so good at interpreting what my detector sees that I do not have to dig every pull tab or beer can...or piece of foil.........and I even do not need the meter in most cases to do this......I can tell by the depth, size and tone of the target whether I want to dig it or not!!......Well Nick I guess that you are afraid of my old beat up obsolete Compass and you must really be afraid of Texas......................I even offered to house you free for a week and you still turned me down...................NOW I WONDER................LOL.......Joe

 

[Nick A]

Nick have you ever used a Compass machine and if so did you become proficient with it? Have you ever used a Wilson machine? Do you hunt mostly parks or other enviroments?
I think you have misunderstood my point. I like you have found the Etrac to be a great machine as well as the Explorers, Sovereigns and Musketeers. I have made many amazing finds with each of these machines. The Etrac does do well with picking through trash I agree with you there. I like you have found the brunt of my silver coins in an old park setting that has been hammered to the point that other detectorist have wrote it off years ago as hunted out. I have found silver coins with nails welded to them or in the hole with a big rusty bolt and been amazed at how great this machine was and how great of a detectorist I must have been to have found them.
I make several detecting trips a year hunting to different parts of the United States and Canada. I have discovered that in different areas of the world, same targets can sound very differently. I thought I was as good as anyone with the Etrac until I took the machine to other parts of the country. I found that iron ore changes and ground minerals change depending on the part of the country your in. I rarely dig a piece of iron or aluminum in Tennessee but in Ontario Canada, Buffalo NY, Louisville Ky, Tulsa Oklahoma, Jackson Mississippi, Shreveport Louisiana it takes me 2 or 3 days of detecting to get to where I semi-accurately identify iron or aluminum and not dig it. Take a trip to another distant locale and I think you'll understand what I'm talking about.
In rough plowed farm fields apparently you didn't have some one beside you cleaning your clock with an old machine. I have had this happen on multiple occasions. Going directly behind me over the same areas that I had just been over with the Etrac digging coin after coin and button after button that me MR ETRAC MASTER had just left in the ground.
Trust me there are some enviroments that the Etrac is not all that.
Will the Etrac correctly identify deep targets better? Without a doubt
Now let's be realistic, I like you have a high silver coin count but how many of those coins have you dug that were 5" - 6" deep verses how many were 10" - 12" deep?
I bet at least 70% of these coins fell in the 5" to 6" range.
This alone is a true testament to the Etrac's ability unmask targets that other detectors/ist have missed. If you agree to the above statement then you must agree that MASKING not DEPTH is at least 70% of the battle. Not to discount depth but it's truely not everything.
I think your a great detectorist, you would have to be to have found all the silver you have located. My hat's off to you.
Can I go behind you with a Tesoro, Compass, Wilson, Whites and find coins or valuable relics you've missed YOU BETCHA.....
Could you go behind me or Joe with the Etrac and us with the Compass and find coins or valuable relics we've missed? Without a doubt.
Could I go behind you with the Etrac and you with the Etrac and finds deep silver you left in the ground. I would say so
Or if you stepped behind me with us both on Etrac's and you find a deepie I missed. I would bet money on it.
This comes back to you can't get it all. I just like to have more in my tool box than a sledge hammer sometimes a tack hammer does a much better job
If you hunt parks 90% of the time stick to the Etrac don't sway.
If you would come hunt with me at some of my old homestead sites I promise you it wouldn't take long for your to start doubting the mighty Etrac.
I am not brand specific by no means I own and enjoy many brands and have found that a person of average intelligence can become proficient on multiple machines but not without A LOT of time in the field.
Ask yourself with all the different machines out there why is there still a market for the older machines. I happen to know many guys that can afford the latest and greatest that still prefer the older machines. Why can I sell an old outdated obsolete Compass for near the same money as a barely used F75? Dog gone there must be a reason...

Different machines for different hunting conditions. Absolutely true. Whether it be an old machine or a new machine, they are still different. Besides the electronics, there's still coils and operator adjustments as as well as user skill. A mind-boggling array of options and variables, and that does not even take into account the variables of the site itself.

With all these variables, as well as the site differences (and geographic variables) it is nearly impossible to compare detectors with a level of minutiae. However, broad general experiences can be compared. Broadly and generally, I feel newer detectors are superior to older machines.

I stand by my points about reliability of older machines. Actually any used machine... especially if you are a newbie. How do you know it's operating properly? An old pro will know something is amiss with a detector pretty fast, as they are familiar with the expectations. And I still say many old detectors go for parts or backups for people who love them

With any detector you never get it all. I'm good and thorough, but I can re-hunt areas I have hunted before and still turn up items. A dime-sized target at 10"+ with some masking is still a very small and narrow target and easily missed, even with a tight sweep. We are only human! We agree 100%, John, that anyone hunting behind anyone with any detectors will find missed targets.

You are absolutely correct about the E-Trac and it's unmasking ability. Overall, you are correct, I am not digging deeper at all. I first noticed the Minelab's amazing target separation when using an X-Terra 70. The E-Trac has only improved upon the unmasking abilities of the Explorer. I read so many people wanting more depth and buying gigantic coils for more depth. It's not all about depth. Sure, some stuff is deep, but the majority of coins and relics we seek are within the top 12" of soil and within reach of newer detectors with stock coils. Separation and "see-through" abilities couple with accurate ID are much more important than depth.

I agree too that for hunted-out park hunting, the E-Trac is a hard machine to beat. I also agree that hunting homesites, woods or fields are a different matter. I think the E-Trac (as any other newer machine) would still do well, but it's my brain that needs adjusting to the new variables these sites introduce.

I think it is easy to be proficient at many machines, but I think there is a point beyond just knowing how to work the thing well, and really "feeling" it. This only comes with a lot of hours and frequent use. Which is why some people stick with their old machines and never want to learn a new one. They either don't have time or want to go through the learning curve to master another machine.

As far as markets for old machines, I never try to guess about Americans' buying habits. People buy the craziest things... eBay is proof positive that you can find a willing buyer for almost anything. (and still, if the Compass is really so great, why aren't they still being made, or an equivalent machine by another manufacturer? Hmm...)

Are newer machines only good for finding older coins? No. Joe was originally "bothered by...some...touting...Newer Machines and Claiming that they are so Superior to all of the rest just because of their High Silver Coin Count!" And I think that the response to that is that the only machine that is superior is the one that finds what you want in the site you are hunting.

I hunt old parks in the Midwest. I have a high silver coin count (as well as other coins and relics!). I love the challenge of finding old silver coins, it is a great challenge... just a perfect balance of work to reward. John validates my contention that the E-Trac is a great machine for these sites. I have never said blanketly that the E-Trac is all-around awesome. I have always specified "at these sites" in my praises for the machine.

If you hunt rough plowed fields in the Southwest and like to dig bullets and relics, damned if I know what the best detector is for you, but if those were the conditions I was faced with, I'd figure it out and buy whatever newer machine did the best job for those targets at those sites.

 

[Nick A]

.......NICK A.......I guess that you only see what you want to see...........Reread my posts I never said "DIG ALL".........I am just so good at interpreting what my detector sees that I do not have to dig every pull tab or beer can...or piece of foil.........and I even do not need the meter in most cases to do this......I can tell by the depth, size and tone of the target whether I want to dig it or not!!......Well Nick I guess that you are afraid of my old beat up obsolete Compass and you must really be afraid of Texas......................I even offered to house you free for a week and you still turned me down...................NOW I WONDER................LOL.......Joe

Joe, it's not a matter of seeing sides. We are each entitled to our opinions. You may state yours and I may state mine. People can read both sides on this forum and draw their own conclusions. I don't doubt you make great finds with your Compass and enjoy detecting with it. I make what I consider great finds with my machine and enjoy detecting with it. If others can have my same enjoyment and would like to find the types of targets I am finding, I want them to be able to which is why I share my finds and experiences on the forum! If you want to find silver coins in hunted-out Midwestern parks, the E-Trac is a super machine.

"I can tell by the depth, size and tone of the target whether I want to dig it or not!" Me too! And I have a super accurate meter on my newer machine to help me make even better decisions about what I want to dig.

No need to be a jerk and toss off that afraid talk. I'm not "afraid" of your state or your old Compass, and if you genuinely think that then I don't know that you've understood any of what I wrote. In the name of God, why would I want to take a week off of work, pay to travel to Texas and stay at the home of a stranger? I don't have time for that... I'm going out right now to spend a few hours digging up some old coins and relics right here with my newer machine.

 

[john37115]

Nick I hope you realize I am just razzing you a bit. It makes the day go by faster.

I know you are an accomplished detectorist and I think Joe and myself are just messing with you.
It's your prerogative to like whatever machine you like.

Keep on posting your great finds.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

In a Nut shell.................no