Are the new $200-$400 detectors really running circles around the older detectors?

[vincevg]

Are the new $200-$400 detectors really running circles around the older higher end detectors?

For instance, how do they compare to a Tesoro Tejon or Vaquero, or a Fisher F70 when relic hunting? I understand beach is a different ballgame, but I'm looking at relic hunting). I also understand the newer ones pretty much all have screens now, but what about unmasking, recovery speed, depth, working in difficult or heavy trash laden soil?

 

[l.cutler]

I have used both of those detectors here in my area of Colorado. I can assure you that they were not deep detectors here.

At least from my experience, the main factors that determine actual depth are the soil/sand mineralization levels and does the detector being used have the tech to maximize depth in various soil/sand mineralization levels or is it strictly a mild soil only detector.

I'm sure it has to do with the soil in different areas but Indian cents at a foot deep were not unusual with these two detectors. I suppose it's possible I just never passed over any that deep with the newer ones, but I never found any at that depth.

 

[Carl-NC]

TX "power" is limited by the physics of hunting in bad ground, not by the FCC. Most detectors have been running at a reasonable max power since the 1980s, anything higher will overload in bad ground and that's what you have to design for. Recently, some detectors have been designed with variable TX power so that they crank up the power in light ground and turn it down in bad ground. The Equinox and Manticore are examples. These detectors will seem to have a little more hots in air testing but maybe nothing more in the ground. Also keep in mind that even the Manticore's claim of "50% more power" yields only about 1/2" more depth.

The better improvements made over the years are in lower noise receivers -- which means the detector can see fainter targets -- and things like reactivity speed which helps in high trash. Every little bit helps. The result is, some of the better old-school detectors (MXT, F75, Tejon) are still good hunters in some places, but the newer detectors are good hunters in a lot more varied places.

 

[guest]

I like what he's sayin' ...👍😊... listen carefully ...

 

[jmc24]

Are the new $200-$400 detectors really running circles around the older higher end detectors?

For instance, how do they compare to a Tesoro Tejon or Vaquero, or a Fisher F70 when relic hunting? I understand beach is a different ballgame, but I'm looking at relic hunting). I also understand the newer ones pretty much all have screens now, but what about unmasking, recovery speed, depth, working in difficult or heavy trash laden soil?

Read the OP’s original post very carefully.

He gives some very specific conditions for comparing the performance of $200 to $400 detectors compared to older higher end detectors.

Some of those $200 to $400 US detectors have simultaneous multi frequency and selectable single frequency operation that is very effective in the conditions laid out in the OP’s question.

Carl NC is dead on with his statement: “The result is, some of the better old-school detectors (MXT, F75, Tejon) are still good hunters in some places, but the newer detectors are good hunters in a lot more varied places.”

I will echo that statement with a clarification, “but the newer simultaneous multi frequency detectors are good hunters in a lot more varied places”

I hunt roughly 1,000 hours per year for coins, jewerly and relics and have been doing that since the Equinox 600/800 was released back in early 2018 so roughly 8,000 hours total. I can only remember one 2 hour session when I was near an electric cattle fence that I had to switch to 20 kHz selectable single frequency or just quit and go home due to high EMI from that electric fence. All the other 7,998 hours using these newer SMF detectors, I was using them with the Multi settings. The accuracy of the detectors I use for the most part when in Multi is really astonishing even on deep targets. There are a couple of exceptions from my experience (Minelab X-Terra Elite and Equinox 700/900). That accuracy and depth is gone as soon as I switch them to one of their selectable single frequency settings.

BigTim is producing some very good YouTube videos about these low to mid range SMF detectors at the moment. Just have a look especially at his Deus 1 versus Legend 2 video for a good example of single versus SMF for target ID and target tone accuracy.

I don’t have an issue with the MXT, F75, Tejon or any other higher end single frequency detector along with the Fisher CZs, Whites DFX, V3i, Minelab BBS/FBS as far as how well they detect in very mild to light mineralization. If those are your conditions, good for you, you may not need to consider a possible upgrade. If those are not your ground conditions you should consider an upgrade.

Also, I think BigTim would agree that the new XP Icon series is a very viable choice for a budget minded, newer tech SMF/selectable single frequency detector, if you hunt in some of the more difficult conditions that the OP laid out in his original post.

 

[Slowtaknow]

I don’t like being told I’m wrong. Can you re-phrase that for me please?

You are not right

 

[Slowtaknow]

But they are not $200 to $400 I’m sure.

My xterra pro was under $300 when I bought it, love it more than my vaquero, but the vaquero, although not as advanced still works great and nearly goes as deep. However I do go to the beach and the vaquero can't hang, plus the xterra has three different frequencies to choose from.

 

[OldWest]

I sure learn a lot from these discussions. Thanks!

 

[1637]

i have 5 whites, when i looked for a new detector.just wanted something like a easy to use ,like a old 55 chevy,i ended up get a 360 vanquish.turn it on and go i love this thing, about 275.00,ive been back to all the places i used the whites and been finding lots of fun stuff.i also use a 15.00 ebay pin pointer that works great

 

[jmc24]

i have 5 whites, when i looked for a new detector.just wanted something like a easy to use ,like a old 55 chevy,i ended up get a 360 vanquish.turn it on and go i love this thing, about 275.00,ive been back to all the places i used the whites and been finding lots of fun stuff.i also use a 15.00 ebay pin pointer that works great

Yep, my $150 Minelab Vanquish 340 is an excellent detector that I would rather use than a long list of older tech detectors.

 

[bigtim1973]

Read the OP’s original post very carefully.

He gives some very specific conditions for comparing the performance of $200 to $400 detectors compared to older higher end detectors.

Some of those $200 to $400 US detectors have simultaneous multi frequency and selectable single frequency operation that is very effective in the conditions laid out in the OP’s question.

Carl NC is dead on with his statement: “The result is, some of the better old-school detectors (MXT, F75, Tejon) are still good hunters in some places, but the newer detectors are good hunters in a lot more varied places.”

I will echo that statement with a clarification, “but the newer simultaneous multi frequency detectors are good hunters in a lot more varied places”

I hunt roughly 1,000 hours per year for coins, jewerly and relics and have been doing that since the Equinox 600/800 was released back in early 2018 so roughly 8,000 hours total. I can only remember one 2 hour session when I was near an electric cattle fence that I had to switch to 20 kHz selectable single frequency or just quit and go home due to high EMI from that electric fence. All the other 7,998 hours using these newer SMF detectors, I was using them with the Multi settings. The accuracy of the detectors I use for the most part when in Multi is really astonishing even on deep targets. There are a couple of exceptions from my experience (Minelab X-Terra Elite and Equinox 700/900). That accuracy and depth is gone as soon as I switch them to one of their selectable single frequency settings.

BigTim is producing some very good YouTube videos about these low to mid range SMF detectors at the moment. Just have a look especially at his Deus 1 versus Legend 2 video for a good example of single versus SMF for target ID and target tone accuracy.

I don’t have an issue with the MXT, F75, Tejon or any other higher end single frequency detector along with the Fisher CZs, Whites DFX, V3i, Minelab BBS/FBS as far as how well they detect in very mild to light mineralization. If those are your conditions, good for you, you may not need to consider a possible upgrade. If those are not your ground conditions you should consider an upgrade.

Also, I think BigTim would agree that the new XP Icon series is a very viable choice for a budget minded, newer tech SMF/selectable single frequency detector, if you hunt in some of the more difficult conditions that the OP laid out in his original post.

Yes I have to agree very much with Jeff, jmc24 here in this statement

The Tejon, Cortez, bandido, bandido 2, vaquero, MXT, Fisher 1260, CZ5, CZ6, DFX, XLT are a few of the upper end analog units I have owned.

Did I use them all to their full potential?.....no and I do not believe anyone could for that matter but like most of the other users who owned them I did my best with them here where I live.

Every one of those units were excellent metal detectors and worked great at the time.

I would still own some of them but I am only aware that Centreville electronics are able to repair Whites. I do not think First Texas are messing around with the old los Banos fishers anymore either but someone correct me if they know. I may be wrong but since they gave up their CZ line I kind of figured they may not be repairing the older ones.

Plus coils are getting expensive and hard to come by.

Now with that said.....they all take batteries....so you get about 25 hours with using a set of headphones with the MXT if I remember right with 8AA batteries.

Well that adds up and 9 volts are stupid expensive now and you cannot use the high powered 9 volts in some of those units because they push out too many milliamps compared to regular 9 volts and will make some of those detectors act erratic sometimes.

With that said the rechargeable machines are way more economical to use all the way around along with their rechargeable wireless headphone

I tried to go back to an mxt for a little while because it takes regular batteries but the outdated performance was obvious compared to the new technology

I had minelab 540 vanquish and it ran great and performed very good. It will ID Deeper targets more correctly than the MXT will using the stock concentric coil

The new XP Icon will definitely out perform the MXT on seperation and has the ability to ID targets beyond the abilities of the MXT from my own experience.

The Icon cost around 699 with backphones currently.

The MXT tracker was around 800 bucks or so back in 2002 new. Take in the account of inflation that is about $1490.00 bucks today!

The Minelab Xterra elite....it does ok and by itself is 415 bucks or so without the extra coil

I have to admit it with the stock V12 coil will have somewhat bouncy TID numbers but it too will sound off better on deeper targets and seperate better than the DFX and MXT ever did for me.....and I liked both of those units.

The Xterra elite has a decent sized screen and I like the red backlight on it....plus it can use the equinox coils too.

People seem to love the Nokta score units but I have never had one myself.

Even the Garrett Vortex does better than the older single frequency flagships from yesterday too.

jmc24 loaned me his Garrett Vortex for a few days for me to run a few comparison videos.

It too performs better than those old whites, Tesoro and fisher units

Plus most of these new multi frequency detectors all have the ability of switching to mono frequencies as well except for the vanquish series from what I understand as they seem to be fixed in multi iq only.

I made some videos recently showing the XP icon alongside the XP deus and a few other units.

I have already made a video between the XP deus and XP icon however I was using the Deus 2 FMF 9 inch coil in that video.

I now have the 11 inch coil that was designed for the icon series.

So maybe the next couple of days I will make another video showing the icon with its stock coil compared to the 1st generation XP deus.

I still like the XP deus and it does well for me here in my mild soil.

So until I can remake another video with the 11 inch icon coil paired with the icon....here is a comparison between the XP icon and 1st generation XP deus both with 9 inch coils

If some of you guys are still swinging those older VLF units I don't blame you.

However from my own experience they are gonna go south sooner or later. I have had several Tesoro coils go bad along with some of the whites 950 coils.

The battery holder doors on the Tejon and cortez units will eventually fall off because of the plastic hinges.

The 4AA battery packs for the old fisher 1260 and 1270 units will have one of the 9 volt style connector fall off too. Good luck finding some of those these days.

The battery terminal tabs break off inside the dfx, XLT and MXT units and with time the V3i and Vx3 will suffer the same thing.

I have had to repair those myself in the past.

The MXT and M6 have a circuit inside that will go bad and the speaker will stop working only allowing sound to come through the headphone jack. I have had to send those to Centreville electronics and they were charging a flat fee of 85 bucks about 2 years ago just to open it up and the parts and labor are added to that cost along with shipping both ways 2 years ago was about $145 bucks for me per unit.

Anyways here is one of the videos I made between the XP deus and XP icon

 

[bigtim1973]

Ok guys I had some time here today to make a couple of videos.

Now before I get started I need to mention that the old analog units do not suffer as badly with EMI and do very good in iron most of the time.

Going back to do the new 200 to 400 dollar units run circles around the older flagships is one heck of a question

Here is the minelab x-terra elite. I am gonna be honest about this up front...it is my least favorite multi IQ detector that I have used.

I am not saying anything negative about it other than I wish minelab stuck the older tid numerical system in it like the older equinox 600 and 800 had. I believe it would have a steadier TID value without bouncing around so much.

However we got some rain the past couple of days and it performed better than some of my previous videos show.

Another question you may have might be.....is the XP Deus 1st generation which was a flagship by XP for over 10 years outdated?

Personally I do not think so.

However in this video you get an idea of how well a new production $400 dollar Multi IQ or Simultaneously Frequency unit compares to a unit that has had many updates.....some good....some not as good since the introduction of the XP Deus in 2009 which had a price tag hovering around $1200.00 bucks. With today's inflation rate that is about $1873.00 dollars.

However you can still get a new one for about $600 if you can find one in stock.

Here is the minelab Xterra elite vs the XP deus video

Did the Xterra elite run circles around it? Not exactly for me if you know how to set one up.

Although it a gave it a good run in some areas with a steadier audible tone audio on deeper targets compared to the limits of the single frequency performance of the XP deus for sure.

However it will have an advantage in tougher ground conditions and salt water environments for sure.

Here is the video

 

[bigtim1973]

Here is the Icon X and XP Deus going over the same targets as well. In field mode the regular XP Icon performs the exact same here in the profile and configuration I have the Icon x using with the same coil and even the 9 inch deus 2 FMF coil responds exactly the same way when paired with an Icon remote.

 

[1637]

Yep, my $150 Minelab Vanquish 340 is an excellent detector that I would rather use than a long list of older tech detectors.

brought a 340, but it seemed to hit on both sides and the center,so it was hard to pin point with,does your do that?so i sold it and the 360.it only hits on the center and has a pin pointer, good hunting ,brad

 

[Carl-NC]

it seemed to hit on both sides and the center

Most DD coils do that with very shallow targets. Lift the coil until you get one response.

 

[Sand Swinger]

FWIW, here's my two cents. I think detector choice depends on the type of hunting you do & what you're used to and/or like. I'm an old twist the knobs, audio only, beep & dig guy, so I gravitate towards powerful but simple detectors with knobs and use audio tones to help ID targets. From 69' up until 16 years ago, I was a coinshooting dirt hunter, primarily hunted around old houses, churches, etc, looking for old coins & jewelry. I've never been into relic hunting so can't really comment except to say that if I was relic hunting, no matter what detector I was using, I'd be swinging a large coil when hunting fields and/or large open areas, and hunting in all-metal mode.

But about 16 years ago, I switched over to beach hunting and quickly learned that choice of detector technology becomes much more important hunting saltwater beaches than hunting on dirt/soil, with the possible exception of hunting in areas with highly mineralized soil. Hunting on dry sand is not much of a problem for most any detector, as dry sand has little to no mineralization. But it's when you start moving down to the wet sand & saltwater that multiple-frequency machines have the edge, and it's also where my PI excels. Back around 2010 I think, I had a quick fling with a single frequency Garrett AT Pro & ACE 350, then I moved over to Minelab Sovereigns and haven't looked back. Back then, Sovereigns were considered to be the Kings of the Beach, Excals as well, probably because the vast majority of detectors back then were single frequency, so my BBS Multi-Frequency Sov didn't have much competition at that time. I pretty much "owned" the wet sand & shallow saltwater, as the other hunters I came across stayed on dry sand with their SF detectors. Only guys I ever saw on the wet or in saltwater water were either swinging Excals or PI's, but at most, I'd only see maybe 1 or 2 guys on rare occasions, it was usually just me.

My "old faithful" Sov Elite is over 20 years old, but its BBS multi-frequency technology was SMF or Multi-IQ before either of those terms were coined. And with my 12x10 & 15x12 SEF Butterfly coils, it's still a deep-seeking beast on the beach and makes me dig deeper than I really feel like digging, especially as I get older. I've also added a White's Dual Field PI & X-Terra Elite to the mix. For me personally, my detector choices are based on hunting saltwater beaches, so the Sov & X-Terra Elite are both multi-frequency, and the PI is, well, it's a PI, lol.

Crazy thing is, my Sovereign has 5 knobs, and auto iron-reject & variable tones when in discrim mode, my PI has 3 knobs, is all-metal all the time, and just has audio. My X-Terra Elite has the screen, VDI, Target ID, lots of settings to choose from, variable tones, all kinds of bells & whistles. But when I hunt the beach, I always reach for my Sovereign & Dual Field PI. I may have only about 1 or 2 hours on the X-Terra Elite. I got it primarily as a backup and to use if/when I get a chance to do some dirt hunting. I like simple, so it's hard for me to give up my knobs and audio only detectors. And although my Sov is over 20 years old, I don't worry about competition from hunters swinging the latest and greatest.

Deep is Deep, and experience counts. And for some reason, probably because they're newbies or recently joined in on the "gold rush", the majority of guys I see swinging the latest top-of-the-line detectors apparently never learned about coil control & overlapping their swings. I see them moving so fast, like they're in a race, that there's no way they can overlap their swings or possibly hear a null or whisper signal. Because they're moving so fast, they wind up swinging their coil in an S type pattern, which means their coil is missing about 50% of the sand they're walking over. To the casual observer, they may look like they're "covering" an area, but they're really not, their coils are missing as much sand as it's covering. Those are the guys I like to follow behind, lol.

That all said, I was seriously checking out the Tesoro's many years ago and really liked the Cibola. And back around 2010/11, there were some interesting mods on the forums for the Cibola. I wasn't looking at the Cibola to replace my Sovereign; I was looking at it for a totally different reason. I participated in a sponsored treasure hunt that was held on a local beach. The "field" was dry sand, and tokens & coins were buried. I had my Sovereign Elite in a chest pouch and was swinging my 15x12 SEF coil to get max coverage. The Sovereign has a fairly large control box and is a bit on the heavy & bulky side (see profile pic), and swinging my 15x12 coil on the stock S shaft was a bit on the heavy side for my wrist & arm.

Then I noticed a few hunters swinging Tesoro's with very small control boxes. One of the guys handed me his Tesoro and it literally felt like a feather, I think total weight was about 2lbs. He explained to me that the Tesoro wasn't his main detector, he just used it for sponsored treasure hunts, as the light weight allowed him to move quickly, and with less wear & tear on his arm. Damn, good fricken' idea. A lightweight Tesoro definitely would be the right tool for the job when it comes to participating in sponsored treasure hunts, where targets aren't buried too deep, so covering as much territory as quickly as possible really is important.

 

[jmc24]

brought a 340, but it seemed to hit on both sides and the center,so it was hard to pin point with,does your do that?so i sold it and the 360.it only hits on the center and has a pin pointer, good hunting ,brad

Yep, like Carl said, it's a Double D coil thing if the detector is setup to run pretty hot from the factory or has the sensitivity turned up.

Personally, I like those triple hits going over targets. That tells me without even looking at a depth meter on the screen if there is one, that the target is probably very shallow.

 

[1637]

Most DD coils do that with very shallow targets. Lift the coil until you get one response.

thank you,

 

[vincevg]

Well, I figured there's only so much reading and watching Youtube video clips one can do before you have to just dive on in and buy one....

Have a gently used Minelab Elite Expedition Pack coming from Richard @ Backwoods Metal detectors.

Will report my findings once I have spent some time with it, and I will compare it with a Tejon and an F70.