bifurcated & a few paleo

[outlawatheart]

pretty nice ones...I think anyway.
Second photo bottom right was reworked in to a scaper. I do not know the type. All were found in and around the same cave. It has never been dug (YET) and is deep enough that lights are required in the rear. I do not think they are all paleo but still all came from this site.

 

[archer66]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Heck yeah!!

 

[PrimitiveOne]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

A couple of those show small flutes. This looks like the same person was making these heads. Nice finds!!!!

 

[theviking]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Very nice. Looks like maybe a corner Tang knife in bottom right of first pic.IMHO. Thanks for the view.

 

[Tnmountains]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

I think it is time to get out the heavy equiptment on this site. Very nice !

 

[creek astronaut]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

I think it is time to get out the heavy equiptment on this site. Very nice !

like yesterday,nice finds

 

[uniface]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

First off, VERY interesting stuff, Outlaw.

Second, you have four Paleo era artifacts shown.

Third, I suspect that what you'd find digging in the cave would be the later stuff you're showing.

Fourth, if the cave isn't too badly potholed by people rooting in it looking for trophies, you'd do well to find an archaeologist who is also a decent human being (scarce in your part of the country, but there are some) and show him what you've found. Even in tough times with shrunken budgets, it might be possible to put a project together to do it right -- a LOT more would be learned that way. If local inquiries come up unpromising, contact the American Society for Amateur Archaeology : Doctor Gramly will hook you up.

OK. That said (and meant), you have three Paleo era hafted points there (second and third pictures, the two at bottom left and the one above them at the left edge). Very interestingly, that one (the longest) is likely to have been carried in from Tennessee (Dover chert), although there's an off chance that it could have been a trade item.

The long white tool (Burlington chert) is a middle paleo era limace, and a nice one. The one at the bottom right corner is a late Paleo point (Quad/Beaver Lake). The others are Early Archaic (Dalton) through Middle Archaic.

 

[outlawatheart]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Thnx for that information uniface. The cave has never been touched (that I can tell) and is very remote. It has a small water source that flows from the rear which has cut a 3' path along one side clearing away all the sediment exposing the original cave floor. I found 11 artifacts, including the ones posted, just laying on the surface in the entrance. The drip edge of the bluff has a lot of flint showing. It is a deep shelter maybe 30 to 40 feet deep with a low ceiling of about 20' going down to 8'ish and 30yds. wide + or -, lights will be needed to hunt inside. At this point only my dog and I know it's location and probably plan on keeping it that way until I can do some descent explorations of my own.
The hike to this site is TOUGH. No trails!! Accessed only from a creek bed below or ropes from above. I guess if it was easy it would have been found long ago. I do understand the importance of the archaeological process and agree to a point. But doing that is kinda like letting someone else open your Christmas presents....LOL!

Only the 2nd and 3rd photos pertain to the cave finds.! Photo one where field finds.

 

[uniface]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Sure, I can understand your ambivalence over it, Outlaw. But there are some aspects of this you've got to be aware of when you're deciding.

We are used to thinking of prehistory in terms of stone -- points, tools, &c. But that's because stone is about all that has survived the passage of time. What most of their lives depended on was bone, antler, sinew, wood, plant fibers, hides and other materials. Stone is one corner of that -- only.

In open air sites, especially in the east where it rains a lot, the rest of the picture (except for pollen and phytoliths) has disappeared. But in protected environments like caves (and rock shelters), it survives. It is ONLY because places like Dust Cave in Alabama escaped being dug up and looted that we know that people in the Late Paleo era had switched over to subsisting mostly on waterfowl, fish and small game. No one would have expected that, but the fact that the record survived there, un-molested, to be properly investigated was the key that unlocked comprehension of what people were doing (not just making out of stone) then.

The record from sites like Russel Cave, Dust Cave and Meadowcroft Rock Shelter are, you could say, the foundation that the incomplete-picture-in-stone that open air sites provide build on. Sadly, these are the first places that little kids in big bodies with shovels and screens go after, erasing the little that's left of recoverable history in the process.

The opportunities for understanding the past that places like yours offer are increasingly rare. They aren't making any more of them

That's what you're going to have on your conscience, whichever way you call it.

Choose wisely and well, Amigo !

 

[creek astronaut]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Pickaway did you get the 86 again for stating your opinionalot of that going on these days.

 

[outlawatheart]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

I can see you are passionate about this subject uniface. It is a touchy area with true hunters. This is not my first experience in finding an untouched site. Bottom line to me is: looting is looting whether it be done by an private individual or by one or two archaeologists and a bunch of students to do the grub work. Been there and done that! First thing they did was make a trail through pristine woods to the site. Needless to say my relationship with the land owner was over. It took me years and many a bag of morels to get permission to be on his land.
At this point (<<no pun intended ) I am sorry to say that I will not make this place known...hope this don't piss anybody off on here. I like this site and have learned from it. Lots of experienced hardcore hunters here that understand both sides of this issue. Your words are not lost in our greed for flint.
Maybe you should post a pole on the subject just to see what everyone else might think. No specifics Please.
May I ask, what the current laws are pertaining to land owners rights verses archaeologically important sites are. Or the rights of ownership to the artifacts recovered from the dig? Thanks!

 

[ohioaxeman]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

i agree with you OutLawHeart about keeping it a secret. what you find laying on the surface is finders keepers, BUT digging it up is the issue. If it was on my property, i would have to live in it to keep the (looters) out!

 

[uniface]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Hi Again, Outlaw

I don't know you personally, and since I don't hang out here all that much, reading what everybody says about everything enough to come up with handle on where your head's at, when your post tweaked my twanger, I wrote a kind of scattergun message, wanting to make sure the basics got across, in case.

Obviously, you're on top of the issues involved though.

So onward & upward

 

[pickaway]

Re: bifurcated & a few paleo

Nice finds...