Big cats in East TN

[Number9]

"Could it be true? It's in a national science publication with recorded DNA samples. Unless you have some Alternative Belief System, it is."

The cougar IS in the East, and I know first hand that large cats are in Tennessee!

Could a cougar make a 2,000-mile journey from the Black Hills of South Dakota to Conn.? I guess it's possible?
Over the last 20 years several animal groups have been pushing for the reintroduction of the cougar back in the eastern part.
Most state and federal game people hasn't been to happy with the idea... so they say?

In 1991, red wolves were reintroduced into Great Smoky Mountains National Park but were relocated in 1998 due to insufficient food sources... so they say. The local people didn't like the idea of the wolf being placed in the mountains and viewed them as "target practice"! I don't think they were "relocated" in 1998, and I know they had more than enough food. I still hear about one being spotted by hunters near the Park. I believe the Feds just shut up talking about the program.

I believe the western cougar has been reintroduced a long the Appalachian Mountains either by a few state games, or from the animal groups. It was said by one of the groups that the Appalachian Mountains would be the ideal location. I'm sure the locals and hunters wouldn't want big cats to be here! Which may be the reason for "don't ask-don't tell"!? I do think the reintroduction of the Elk is was OK... it's viewed as "food"! I have several Elk only a few miles from my home.

Now... what about the "Black Panther"!?
I have no idea where this critter came from? I do find it hard to believe in the "pet theories" because to many friends has talked about them and has produced clear pictures with them in the same picture.
I was asked... "Ok then, why don't we have videos and pictures made public telling about this?" People that live in the mountains don't care if you know or not. They don't trust "authority" in to many forms! Most communication does travel fast on a local level!

Several years ago one child was killed and two family members were hospitalized after a bear attack on Chilhowee Mountain. I asked a friend that lives on the mountain what the deal was about the attack? He said it was a another "problem bear" that the Park Service (Smoky) had moved there to rid their problem. We shoot them as soon as possible... guess we missed one?
Nothing was ever said by the "authority" or any news service about them moving "problem bears" to that location!

 

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[mark1982]

one was hit by a car and killed last year in connecticut. You can google the story. About 10 miles from me. At first they said it was a pet that someone released, but after close examination they said it migrated from michigan and was passing threw. They have found scat in CT in a few different spots. Its not strange. they were here , hunted out, and now there making a comeback. Simple. It happened with bears, and deer as well. Now there are tons of them in connecticut. The only issues with apex predators in a state like ct is they do not have enough territory to support a population IMO.

 

[kuger]

Neat story Coinshooter, Thanks for sharing. Maybe those lions there in CA. are not afraid of humans, beacuse they are not harvested. It kind of like the Grizzly bears that wander outside Yellowstone and Glacier. When the bears hear gun shots, they will seek out and pinpoint from where the shot came from, looking for that free meal. I have heard many instances where hunters have been force away by the grizzlies. They have no fear of humans!

Man,this post is packed with fact!I guided big game hunts in both the "Bob",and the Madison Mtn Range in South Western Mont.I could fill a book with Grizz stories and am here to tell ya They are the one animal I fear!!

 

[Number9]

Now think about it for just a minute...

Wouldn't it be better to say, that the cougar "migrated" 2,000 miles and was "tracked by DNA"...
than to say we placed them in your backyard!?

 

[Number9]

"Man,this post is packed with fact!I guided big game hunts in both the "Bob",and the Madison Mtn Range in South Western Mont.I could fill a book with Grizz stories and am here to tell ya They are the one animal I fear!!"

Kuger.. you haven't run across one of our "Mountain Bigfoot" yet, have ya!

 

[kuger]

"Man,this post is packed with fact!I guided big game hunts in both the "Bob",and the Madison Mtn Range in South Western Mont.I could fill a book with Grizz stories and am here to tell ya They are the one animal I fear!!"

Kuger.. you haven't run across one of our "Mountain Bigfoot" yet, have ya!

Funny you bring that up....I just made a post on another forum about three seconds ago concerning Bigfoot. There are places I have been in rural Canada and Northern Calif that you dont joke out loud about Bigfoot....there are folks that take it VERY seriously!I had a dear friend named Ivan Marx that spent his life studing "Bigfoot",He wasnt a BS type of guy either.I can say I beleive but I am sure not going to scoff at somebody that is.There are just too many accounts by people that had nothing to gain by telling yarns


Ya got me thinking about stories Ivan had told me and a picture he had of a horse hanging by its head in the crotch of a tree 15' up.It was one of his horses they used to pack equipt into this REMOTE camp,to log.They would then skid the lumber down the mt. but there were no roads into these upper camps.They had packed in saw fuel,oil and other supplies in 55 gal. drums.The night the horse was hung,something had picked up these barrels and "tossed",them down the mountain....not rolled...tossed.Three of the loggers refused to ever go back...cant say I blame em

 

[Number9]

"There are just too many accounts by people that had nothing to gain by telling yarns."

But, can you go to a zoo and see a Bigfoot like you can a "Black Panther"?

The big cats are known... so I guess the problem seems to be where people see them?

 

[kuger]

"There are just too many accounts by people that had nothing to gain by telling yarns."

But, can you go to a zoo and see a Bigfoot like you can a "Black Panther"?

The big cats are known... so I guess the problem seems to be where people see them?

HA!!I knew you were going to jump on that one!!!Answer to that is I have spent my entire life proffessionaly doing lion work and studying them profusly....Bigfoots I have not.There is much more factual data on lion colors than there is of Bigfoot's as well....I guess we will say,I choose my battles?

....also.....I have never seen a melanistic MOUNTAIN LION in a zoo either

 

[mark1982]

they say it migrated from south dakota, not michigan. My bad

 

[worldtalker]

kuger,I really looked at your avatar squinting,very eye pleasing,pretty! GodBless Chris

 

[kuger]

kuger,I really looked at your avatar squinting,very eye pleasing,pretty! GodBless Chris

Thanks,just a few nice clunkers,the two bigger ones are 1.5 oz a piece

 

[Number9]

But, melanistic big cats are known! So, it must be the location where they have been seen that's the hard part to believe!? Right?

History will tell you of cougars that were black... You well know... nothing is "official" until a "professional in the know" says it is a fact.
Until that time it is NOT "documented to exist"... it is only here-say!

We have a geologist that's posted here...

He will tell you(by research or first hand), that the trapiche sapphire is NOT found in the United States.
Because it's never been "documented to exist". So... it's a fact

So much for fact!?

This trapiche sapphire found in Western North Carolina, Fall 1998...
by yours truly.

http://photos.imageevent.com/number9/pictures/trapiche2.jpg

 

[kuger]

But, melanistic big cats are known! So, it must be the location where they have been seen that's the hard part to believe!? Right?

History will tell you of cougars that were black... You well know... nothing is "official" until a "professional in the know" says it is a fact.
Until that time it is NOT "documented to exist"... it is only here-say!

We have a geologist that's posted here...

He will tell you(by research or first hand), that the trapiche sapphire is NOT found in the United States.
Because it's never been "documented to exist". So... it's a fact

So much for fact!?

This trapiche sapphire found in Western North Carolina, Fall 1998...
by yours truly.

http://photos.imageevent.com/number9/pictures/trapiche2.jpg

You say "big cats",yes more jaguars seem to come black.mtlions not near as much.......I am about through arguing with you sir.I am not one of these professionals you speak of,but I have worked with mt.lions in very western state of the union,Canada,and Mexico,rubbed shoulders with the top feline guys in the world and have been an astute student of the top lion hunters of al time who have/had more hands on experience than any "professional",there is......guys like the Lee Brothers,Ben Lilly,Wylie Carrol(look into these guys yourself)they speak none of ever encountering a black mt.lion either...something of the sorts would have been mentioned.I am done with the subject.Good conversing with ya

 

[Number9]

Kuger...

But, I wasn't arguing, sorry if you felt that way. Just trying to add reason why large cats are turning up in the eastern part of our country.
The question I had was not whether both the cougar and black panther(breed?) existed in the Appalachian Mountains,
I know for a fact they do. The question was how did they get here?

 

[kuger]

good enough then.....you need to start out with understanding that Cougars,Mt.Lion,Puma,Panther......are all in the same...not seperate breeds

 

[Number9]

I think I know what the different breeds are called... I was born at night... but that was 64 years ago!

You said...
"you need to start out with understanding that Cougars,Mt.Lion,Puma,Panther......are all in the same...not seperate breeds"

But Panthers can mean different breeds depending on location... so I've read.

• Panthera, the feline genus which contains lions, tigers, leopards and jaguars
• Panther (in Africa and Asia), the leopard (Panthera pardus)
• Panther (in North America), the cougar or mountain lion (Puma concolor)
  • Florida panther, a subspecies of cougar (Puma concolor coryi or Puma concolor couguar) found in southern Florida
• Panther (in South and Central America), the jaguar (Panthera onca)
• Black panther, a black variant of leopard, jaguar or cougar
• White panther, a white or very pale variant of leopard, jaguar or cougar
• Panther (legendary creature), a mythical creature resembling a large multicolored cat

Like I first stated the "Black Panther" I saw was without a doubt! Didn't notice any "ghost markings"(may have)?
The cat was as large as a western cougar and "jet black". I have no clue as to breed or where it come from?

The cougar that was killed on Signal Mountain was a "Close Encounter of the Third Kind"... no further explanation needed!

I'm not saying anything about another persons knowledge on this subject. I just know what I saw to be fact!

 

[kuger]

I never said you didnt see one....I am saying you didnt see a herd of em.You are a lucky fellow!!!

 

[Number9]

Merry Christmas Mr. Kuger!

Seems to be many "lucky fellows" in Tennessee?

This is getting to be a real joke!

 

[kuger]

Merry Christmas to you Mr.9....I should have wished you that before....I am struggling to get n the spirit

I cant watch the video(over my allowable downloads,here in the sticks)I hope its not a bunch of folks claiming to see multiple black Mt. lions.....if its just lions,I will be the last to say they arent someplace........and I havent I know personally ,first hand of a lion that wandered 600 miles in two years(he had a dog collar with a guys name and phone number on it,around his neck!!!)

 

[b7seas]

A number of years ago, we had the same issue , about wolves, here in Wisconsin. The DNR kept saying that there were NO wolves in Wisconsin. When we lived in a sub-division in northern WI, We took pics of footprints to the DNR. When the guy looked at them, the first thing he said was " those are wolf tracks, where did you get them??" when my wife told him that they were from our driveway in a sub-division, he back-peddled in a hurry saying that"there are no wolves in Wisconsin". The animals are out there. We now have bounties on wolves and coyotes in a state where the DNR were adement about the fact that they didn't exist.

Don't believe the DNR!!! There first purpose is to cover their butts for all the dumb things they do. If some "project" goes wrong, all of a sudden they all plead "dumb".

Just my opinion

Bob