Bottles ... 1880's? Really?

[Palmandan]

I am someone who only sells vintage clothing and accessories online, so I am turning to you folks for help as I know zilch about bottles. I have been asked by a friend to sell these two bottles on eBay. To my eye they look like modern Mateus wine bottles, but he says they are hand-blown and from @ the1880s’. Hate to doubt my bottle-loving friend, but is he right? The pewter decorations are marked “Denmark” and were clearly added much later.


In his words - the bottles have “…. push-ups on the bottom and are ground for standing properly… The push-ups may have been pontils - glazed over with a torch to smooth them. The bottles show bubbles and imperfections. There are mold seams on the sides, but not on the necks. The corks are old and stuck."

I'd appreciate any comments on these bottles before I take the time to list them. Thanks. Amanda

 

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[Bass]

They have airplanes on them. That eliminates the 1800's. I'm guessing the pewter decorations cane with them because they are a perfect fit. 1940's50's at the earliest.
By the way, welcome to this site

 

[Palmandan]

Thank you Bass - This fellow is saying that the bottles are old and that the decoration was added later. I don't know about dating bottles, but I tend to share your opinion and it's a sticky situation, as he thinks they are worth a lot ... and I'm the one who said I would list them. Aghhh.

 

[jeff of pa]

Yea Makes no sense to Decorate Antiques with Airplanes

 

[Harry Pristis]

The age and collector value of the bottles is unknowable without images of the neck and lip-finish. I, like other commenters here, am skeptical. I see nothing so far to indicate age beyond that of a Mateus bottle. I see no indication of a pontil scar, and certainly not an imaginary scar "glazed over with a torch." The wear on the bottom of the bottle may be an indicator of long usage, but that wear is easily faked.

 

[Dug]

Thank you Bass - This fellow is saying that the bottles are old and that the decoration was added later. QUOTE]

He didn't end his statement with "Yeah, that's the ticket, they were added later."

 

[Bass]

I understand that, but I believe the decorations came with the bottles. Like Harry, I see no evidence of a pontil scar.

 

[Palmandan]

Thank you all so much. You are confirming my instincts - plus the fellow doesn't really "get" that in order for an item to fetch "big" money on eBay it needs that special niche - a true collector's item. The decoration on the top of the neck is stuck on and the cork doesn't come out. He said it would also appeal to stock brokers as there is a bull and a bear. Well, there is a bull, but the bear looks more like a little mouse to me! He bought these at a lawn sale for .... way too much ... and of course he wants more than that. I think I will send him your comments in an e-mail (don't dare tell him face to face.)

Yikes - he just pulled into my driveway!

OK - you folks questioning its age. He points out that the neck itself has no seam and if you look closely, you can see there is some kind of rim at the top. Here is the "bear." (A honey bear?) - Looks like a mouse and grapes to me.... Another thing he hasn't considered ... I assume if it truly were an old bottle, tinkering and adding stuff to it would devalue the piece?

By the way, this is a genuinely nice older man who considers himself quite the bottle expert, so I am treading lightly! Any and all back-up appreciated.

 

[Palmandan]

I have to go find a new Mateus bottle and look it over closely...

 

[Bass]

The top is interesting. Would like to see more of the top but you said it's stuck on.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Here are a couple of bottles which demonstrate the stretch and twist of glass in the neck of early (the first example dates to 1770 - 1790), hand-blown bottles. I see none of that in the 'Mateus' bottles under discussion. Is your friend trying to get you to do something that is too unethical to undertake himself?

View attachment 1417498 View attachment 1417499​

 

[Palmandan]

This fellow is really a sweetheart and believes 100 percent that he has something special with these bottles. And he's not a computer person. I showed him an auction I recently completed that did well for a pickelhaube (HERE) and he got it in his head that I could do the same kind of thing for him!

 

[AlienLifeForm]

1880's airplanes are very rare.

 

[Dug]

1880's airplanes are very rare.

Never drink a wine before it's time.

 

[geo4472]

could be Carl Dyhr stoppers THE DANISH SILVERSMITH.

The Danish Silversmith opened by Carl Dyhr in 1909 came to be known throughout Germany as such, being the first shop to carry Georg Jensen pieces (who was known as the Danish Silversmith). The shop carried approximately 90% of Jensen's wares during the 1909 to 1917 time frame when the shop closed due to WWI. Dyhr reopened a shop in Berlin under the same name in 1926 which remained open until the 1943 bombings of Berlin during WWII.