Brevard County Florida planning on banning --- UPDATE UPDATE

[Ray S ECenFL]

Last weekend I was approached by a Brevard County grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING.

I said it was probably a knee jerk reaction to someone who did not use proper recovery methods. Kind of like pulling someone over for speeding and banning all drivers because they might speed one day. Or pulling someone over for speeding and issuing a ticket to all drivers for one persons failure to stay within the speed limit.

The grounds keeper agreed to let me detect the tot lot and the grassy parking areas. I explained to him that I did not dig holes. I use a probe and pop the item out of the ground, leaving little to no trace of disturbance.

The day is coming that ALL Brevard County Parks will be off limits to the hobby. A sad day, especially for me, since my primary hunting areas are the parks.

I do not think all MDers should be banned because a few folks do not know how to properly retrieve a target and damage the grass. Not very happy about this situation and I plan on contacting the Brevard County Commissioners to find out more about this.

I plan on going down fighting.

On Sunday, I wrote an email to the Brevard County Commissioners and told them about my experience at the local park. This happened on two separate occasions with two different grounds maintenance employees. I asked if it was true that metal detecting was going to be banned at all the Brevard County Parks and it was just a matter of getting the signs changed. I requested the ordinance that specifically prohibited metal detecting for my own information.

On Monday, today, I received a call from the Parks and Recreation Director and he wanted to know who told me that I could not detect in the park and wanted to know what park in occurred in. I went into detail about the two incidents. They both happened at the same park. He then told me that only the north end of Brevard County had signs that said no metal detecting and he told me that those signs were not suppose to say that. I was told the detecting in the parks is permitted and that he intend to look into why the grounds maintenance people are telling people that it is not permitted. The Parks Manager was also present during the conversation and he is concerned also.

So it appears that the parks employees were misinformed by someone and whoever that someone is will be hearing from the Parks and Recreation upper management.

Glad that is settled.

HH

Ray S ECenFL

 

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[rjw4law]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

You are right, it probably is a reaction to someone who did leave trash and holes....my motto is to go in and out, leaving no trace that I was ever there.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

" I was approached by a ..... grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING. "

Help me understand the progression of that part of the conversation: Was his response that signs are forthcoming, a result of your observation that no sign exists? Like, as if him saying: "we'll fix that now that you mention it" type of response on his part?

Or put another way, as if he was saying: "if there's no rule (as you're pointing out) then I'll simply see to it that one is made"?

Or was the forthcoming signs already in the works, already having planned on being made?

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

" I was approached by a ..... grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING. "

Help me understand the progression of that part of the conversation: Was his response that signs are forthcoming, a result of your observation that no sign exists? Like, as if him saying: "we'll fix that now that you mention it" type of response on his part?

Or put another way, as if he was saying: "if there's no rule (as you're pointing out) then I'll simply see to it that one is made"?

Or was the forthcoming signs already in the works, already having planned on being made?

He was briefed by his superiors that MDing is no longer permitted and that the sings will be replaced. He was told to tell anyone he saw MDing that it was not permitted. Yes, the signs are in the works. I did see one at a newer park in the north end of the county. Brevard County is 70 miles long.

Ray S ECehFL

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

" I was approached by a ..... grounds keeper and told I could not metal detect in the park. I asked why and why was it not posted on the rules sign at the entrance to the park. He said he did not know why and that the signs will soon be replaced with ones that state NO METAL DETECTING. "

Help me understand the progression of that part of the conversation: Was his response that signs are forthcoming, a result of your observation that no sign exists? Like, as if him saying: "we'll fix that now that you mention it" type of response on his part?

Or put another way, as if he was saying: "if there's no rule (as you're pointing out) then I'll simply see to it that one is made"?

Or was the forthcoming signs already in the works, already having planned on being made?

He was briefed by his superiors that MDing is no longer permitted and that the sings will be replaced. He was told to tell anyone he saw MDing that it was not permitted. Yes, the signs are in the works. I did see one at a newer park in the north end of the county. Brevard County is 70 miles long.

Ray S ECehFL

Just wish they would pass a law that says no pants hanging off your butt.................

 

[smittyw]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

I live in Hillsborough County and there is already a county ordinance prohibiting MD in any county park. Why, I don't know, but but it puts you in jeporady if you choose to take the chance. I have chanced it at lesser used parks on occasion, but the really good ones (heavy use parks) such as Lithia Springs would be to risky for me as it is manned by gate attendants who collect your entrance fee and patrol the park.

Had one fellow who came into the hobby shop I work at who had never used a detector before..He bought one with the express purpose of going to Lithia to MD. I passed on the info on the law and he said he didn't care and was going to do it anyway. I asked him to get back with me and advise what it anything happened. He has never come back into the store and that was three months ago. Wonder if he still has a detector?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

I live in Hillsborough County and there is already a county ordinance prohibiting MD in any county park. Why, I don't know, but but it puts you in jeporady if you choose to take the chance. I have chanced it at lesser used parks on occasion, but the really good ones (heavy use parks) such as Lithia Springs would be to risky for me as it is manned by gate attendants who collect your entrance fee and patrol the park.

Had one fellow who came into the hobby shop I work at who had never used a detector before..He bought one with the express purpose of going to Lithia to MD. I passed on the info on the law and he said he didn't care and was going to do it anyway. I asked him to get back with me and advise what it anything happened. He has never come back into the store and that was three months ago. Wonder if he still has a detector?

I have hunted Lithia Springs on several occasions, mostly in the water, but also the playgrounds, park personnel have seen me and never said a word to me.......The life guards watched me in the water.....

 

[bofusmosby]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

I have lived in Tampa all of my life, and been metal detecting for over 40 years. I have never had any problems hunting in any Hillsbouough County parks. I have also hunted Lithia Springs many many times, again with no problems. Sometimes, there is an over zellas park employee that want to just be an idiot. Fortunately, I have never come across one of them here.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

A interesting side example emerges from this post: smittyw says a park called Lithia is off-limits. Yet treasure-hunter and bofusmosby say they have hunted there with no problem.

I have seen this phenomenom here in CA, at a certain stretch of beach where md'rs spread the word out, amongst themselves, decades ago, that it was "off-limits". Why? Maybe someone asked 20+ yrs. ago and was told "no" by a confused kiosk clerk? Maybe a ranger having a bad day who thought you were going to hurt the sandcrabs? Who knows? However, since md'rs all appraise each other of the rules they've heard of (afterall, you wouldn't want to get arrested, would you?), other md'rs just heeded the advice, and stayed away.

Fast forward 20-ish years later, and someone new, who isn't info the info-mill system of local hobbyists, simply doesn't know any better. He detects this particular beach, and does quite well. So well in fact, that it boggles his mind why the locales aren't "all over it", and why no ones been harvesting all these dry sand finds. So for a week straight, every day, in broad-daylight, in front of everyone and anyone, he detects to his hearts content. Then one day, he leaks his secret spot to a long-time hunter in that area, who promptly appraises him that that beach is "off limits". The newbie hunter is simply amazed! He thinks: "There must be a mistake. It can't possibly be off-limits. Heck, I've been there all week, in front of anyone and everyone, even right in front of manned lifeguard towers, right in front of passing ranger trucks, etc... No one cares!!" The guy actually thought about just simply continuing (despite his new-found revelation), since it was quite obvious, that ........ in practice, it wasn't off-limits.

Therefore, when I read on a forum about some new place being "off-limits" or "in threat of becoming off-limits", I sometimes wonder if it's not the same pyschology of the example above: Where one guys gets an isolated booting, is told of some supposed law (or law that is "coming"), and thus, spreads the word to others. And then ..... 20 yrs. later, everyone is looking around saying "is there really a law, or was some over-zealous bored cop just having a bad day 20 yrs. ago?"

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Unless a city or county park has a specific sign saying "No Metal Detecting" I detect it and I do not ask ahead of time or at the gate for permission to hunt it. I pay enough in taxes to use public parks.....

I didn't ask permission to throw a fresbie or play football at a public park when I was younger, I am not asking permission to metal detect now. No sign saying I can't detect, I'm detecting...............

 

[Smudge]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Unless a city or county park has a specific sign saying "No Metal Detecting" I detect it and I do not ask ahead of time or at the gate for permission to hunt it. I pay enough in taxes to use public parks.....

I didn't ask permission to throw a fresbie or play football at a public park when I was younger, I am not asking permission to metal detect now. No sign saying I can't detect, I'm detecting...............

I like your attitude.

Sad thing in Brevard County, those "no metal detecting" signs are going up.

 

[TerryC]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Not only did I READ your post but I will also SEND Brevard Co. an e-mail to "rattle their cage" on this. I will ask other T-Netters to do the same. ( Got a phone number to get... outta here!) TTC
Modified: 6:20 pm pst....(e-mail) Dear sir,
I have recently read a forum remark that metal detecting will soon be prohibited in Brevard County parks. Is that true? I moved to Florida in 2000 and worked here most recently at The Kennedy Space Center since the 9-11 Twin Towers' attacks. Since I am now 100% disabled, my only sustained pleasure, and form of physical activity that I enjoy, is metal detecting. Will you please contact me with the Commission's direction on metal detecting as it pertains to this healthy family activity?
Yours truly, Terrance Cieszki 321-544-8834 Titusville, FL

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Not only did I READ your post but I will also SEND Brevard Co. an e-mail to "rattle their cage" on this. I will ask other T-Netters to do the same. ( Got a phone number to get... outta here!) TTC
Modified: 6:20 pm pst....(e-mail) Dear sir,
I have recently read a forum remark that metal detecting will soon be prohibited in Brevard County parks. Is that true? I moved to Florida in 2000 and worked here most recently at The Kennedy Space Center since the 9-11 Twin Towers' attacks. Since I am now 100% disabled, my only sustained pleasure, and form of physical activity that I enjoy, is metal detecting. Will you please contact me with the Commission's direction on metal detecting as it pertains to this healthy family activity?
Yours truly, Terrance Cieszki 321-544-8834 Titusville, FL

What email address did you use? If you don't want to post it here Im it to me........I will also send an IM.........

 

[dahut]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Its coming all over. The worst thing that ever happened to the hobby was the mass marketing of affordable detectors.

It has happened where I live, so I've seen it. It is usually because of property damage and/or irresponsible recovery. I've been told about hobbyists who leave holes and trash behind them, while stealing parks property when they leave. It was recognized that I was not one of them, but I was lumped in with them by association.

You can try approaching the parks or city council, but in my experience that's futile once it has gone this far. They don't serve detectorists and THEIR singular recreation, anyway. Their loyalties lie with the larger group of *regular* citizens, extant.
If you would be like normal people and just play Frisbee Golf, softball, or engage in some other 'normal' activity, well... then they got something for you. As a detectorist, however, you are a looter and parasite.
You drain the resources of the benevolent parks people and spoil the parks for everyone.
That sounds harsh, even stupid - but I've heard words to that effect.

In the best case, the Parks Department may institute a permitting system, where they take another tax from you in exchange for the privilege to detect. Never mind that you already pay taxes.
But I can see them rejecting that option, too, based on the damage angle. I was told that permits still might not offer enough control, which is what municipal leaders really want. All it takes is a few complaints from folks with cellphones and you are out.

Fighting it is worth it, if you win. It's a tough fight, though, if we're to be honest. The FMDAC is essentially a hollow shell, too, from my experience. So you go it alone if there is no club or organized group working together. Even if there is, they are often not motivated or prepared enough to go to bat on the matter. I'm calling my Parks Director again next week, to have a chat with him about the permits.

I'm sorry to hear of this. Bravado and planning to "get yours while you still can" is part of the problem. If that is all we bring, banishment is inevitable as more and more detectorists hit the turf in cities across the land.

 

[TerryC]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Not only did I READ your post but I will also SEND Brevard Co. an e-mail to "rattle their cage" on this. I will ask other T-Netters to do the same. ( Got a phone number to get... outta here!) TTC
Modified: 6:20 pm pst....(e-mail) Dear sir,
I have recently read a forum remark that metal detecting will soon be prohibited in Brevard County parks. Is that true? I moved to Florida in 2000 and worked here most recently at The Kennedy Space Center since the 9-11 Twin Towers' attacks. Since I am now 100% disabled, my only sustained pleasure, and form of physical activity that I enjoy, is metal detecting. Will you please contact me with the Commission's direction on metal detecting as it pertains to this healthy family activity?
Yours truly, Terrance Cieszki 321-544-8834 Titusville, FL

What email address did you use? If you don't want to post it here Im it to me........I will also send an IM.........

I got on the Commissioners page and e-mailed it to the first Dist. e-mail. TTC

 

[Crickhunter]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Here's the email I sent to the chairperson of the commission.

"Dear Commission Chairperson,
It has come to my attention that there are plans to ban metal detecting in parks and recreation areas. As one who lives in southeast florida I would like to express my view that this should not be done. Metal detectors for the most part actually improve the grounds and areas they detect. They remove countless trash and dangerous metal objects that kids and others could be hurt on. They fill any holes they make (if they are good detectors). They are regularly known to return lost valuables to their owners and have even been asked on occasion to hunt for specific items. They've even been known to help park and recreation workers find lines, pipes and wires. Please reconsider banning detecting in Brevard. I appreciate your consideration in advance.


Steve Hatfield
South East Florida"

 

[dahut]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

Here's the email I sent to the chairperson of the commission.

"Dear Commission Chairperson,
It has come to my attention that there are plans to ban metal detecting in parks and recreation areas. As one who lives in southeast florida I would like to express my view that this should not be done. Metal detectors for the most part actually improve the grounds and areas they detect. They remove countless trash and dangerous metal objects that kids and others could be hurt on. They fill any holes they make (if they are good detectors). They are regularly known to return lost valuables to their owners and have even been asked on occasion to hunt for specific items. They've even been known to help park and recreation workers find lines, pipes and wires. Please reconsider banning detecting in Brevard. I appreciate your consideration in advance.


Steve Hatfield
South East Florida"

Not too shabby. You may wish to add that detectorists have a stake in keeping the grounds safe, too In fact, we can be considered a free monitoring force. As long as we are there, someone is helping keep an eye out for from ne'erdowells and other riff-raff - those who REALLY do harm to the parks everyone enjoys.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

crickhunter, are you sure it's a good idea to mention "holes"? Even though the context is that you FILL them, yet ..... the knee-jerk reaction on the readers part, will just be to focus on the "holes" word. And especially the next part of your sentence which clearly implies that other detectorists (the "bad" ones) tend to NOT fill holes. No matter how you slice it, the mere mention of the word simplies implies that you will "dig", and the immediation conotation is geeks with shovels.

Reminds me of the fellow who posted that he walked into his city hall, asked the desk clerk if he could metal detect in the town's park. The surprised desk clerk had no idea how to answer. She had never had such a request, nor had ever given the matter thought. So she searched too and fro through her books, all the park rules, etc... Finally she looks up at the guy and says "well I don't see why not". With that the elated md'r proudly announces "Great! And I'll be sure to fill all my holes! " (guess he thought he was a real winner with that line, eh?). As soon as the desk clerk heard the word "holes", she says "hold on a minute, I'll be right back". The md'r could see her retreat to the hallway behind her, sticking her head in and out of various supervisor's doorways, confering with various superiors. She then returns to the front counter with a brochure from the utility co., hands it to the man, and says "sir, I'm going to have to tell you 'no', because you are not supposed to dig, without consulting the utility co.". She hands him the brochure, which has printed on the front "Call before you dig". The man hands back the pamphlet and says "but mam, that's talking about back-hoes and tractors. I'm only going to be digging a few inches for pete's sake!". The lady takes back the pamphlet, leafs through it again, and passes it back to the man: "Sir, the rule doesn't state HOW deep, it just says ALL digging. Therefore we're still going to have to tell you no".

The poor md'r left more confused than when he'd started!

Thus, I think mention of holes is a bad idea. No matter how you phrase it, people simply ratchet on to that one word, and don't hear anything else.

 

[dahut]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

crickhunter, are you sure it's a good idea to mention "holes"? Even though the context is that you FILL them, yet ..... the knee-jerk reaction on the readers part, will just be to focus on the "holes" word. And especially the next part of your sentence which clearly implies that other detectorists (the "bad" ones) tend to NOT fill holes. No matter how you slice it, the mere mention of the word simplies implies that you will "dig", and the immediation conotation is geeks with shovels.

Reminds me of the fellow who posted that he walked into his city hall, asked the desk clerk if he could metal detect in the town's park. The surprised desk clerk had no idea how to answer. She had never had such a request, nor had ever given the matter thought. So she searched too and fro through her books, all the park rules, etc... Finally she looks up at the guy and says "well I don't see why not". With that the elated md'r proudly announces "Great! And I'll be sure to fill all my holes! " (guess he thought he was a real winner with that line, eh?). As soon as the desk clerk heard the word "holes", she says "hold on a minute, I'll be right back". The md'r could see her retreat to the hallway behind her, sticking her head in and out of various supervisor's doorways, confering with various superiors. She then returns to the front counter with a brochure from the utility co., hands it to the man, and says "sir, I'm going to have to tell you 'no', because you are not supposed to dig, without consulting the utility co.". She hands him the brochure, which has printed on the front "Call before you dig". The man hands back the pamphlet and says "but mam, that's talking about back-hoes and tractors. I'm only going to be digging a few inches for pete's sake!". The lady takes back the pamphlet, leafs through it again, and passes it back to the man: "Sir, the rule doesn't state HOW deep, it just says ALL digging. Therefore we're still going to have to tell you no".

The poor md'r left more confused than when he'd started

Thus, I think mention of holes is a bad idea. No matter how you phrase it, people simply ratchet on to that one word, and don't hear anything else.

Great point!
I also dont refer to myself as a "treasure hunter." Im a "detectorist."
The word treasure give people ALL the wrong ideas....

 

[smittyw]

Re: Brevard County Florida planning on banning

I agree with being a detectorist vs a treasure hunter, however, the people who make the laws look at it that we are treasure hunting.

As to legality of Metal Detecting in Hillsborough County Parks, please note the following and decide which way you want to play it.

Hillsborough County Ordinance 08-17

Section 5, sub (B) : Historical, Curtural and Archaeological Items; No persons shall damage, alter or remove such items from park.

*Section 8*, sub (s) Treasure Hunting: Treasure hunting is prohibited in all parks and all park property.

Effective 7 Aug 08, violations punishable as misdemeanor under Florida section 125.69.

I am happy that those of you who have hunted Lithia had fun and I hope no one screws that up for you and others, but from what I read in the Ord., it could cause you a problem.

I was a Deputy Sheriff in this county for 35 years and know I would not have given an MDer problems unless forced to by county staff (heck, I would probably have helped him pry out the target), but there is a new breed out there now and I see a lot less discretion being used now than ever before.

My two cents worth. HH to all.