Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

[steelheadwill]

Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

I started searching on the Other side of the River, Kittery Me.
Area of Ft Mclary, where there have been defenses since late 17th century.
among the rocks, I found these iron items: first 2 photos are a fragment,(more than half!!) of a 'saker gun' round, was 3.75 caliber, now just over 3.5.
though the round is rather small, this gun packed a punch, 1900 lb gun loaded with 5 lb of powder and a range of 1500 paces.
the other item is a whatsit, is it part of a grenade? this was in sand between rocks,
unearthed the round side first, & pulled out the piece you see, expected more underneath, but nothing, perfectly flat surface, not pitted like the round side.
the sand underneath was black flat & smooth, it appeared to be the other half/part.
any hints on the ID of this item are appreciated!
thanks For looking!! & HH to all, Herbie

 

[wwwtimmcp]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

I have a bunch of those what's it's. I think they may be part of the gun carriage by the wheels. I believe it was used like a flat washer to hold the wheels on. the wheels were usualy lignum vitae wood so they would not ruin the deck. 5 lbs would be a massive powder charge. a 6 pounder only used 2 lbs of powder at the most. there is a good book called a treatise of artillery 1780 by john muller. very informational. hope this helps.

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

I have a bunch of those what's it's. I think they may be part of the gun carriage by the wheels. I believe it was used like a flat washer to hold the wheels on. the wheels were usualy lignum vitae wood so they would not ruin the deck. 5 lbs would be a massive powder charge. a 6 pounder only used 2 lbs of powder at the most. there is a good book called a treatise of artillery 1780 by john muller. very informational. hope this helps.

Thanks for the information on the whatsit item! this is the 2nd i've found.
I retreived the powder charge & range info from a british museum website that listed all the different naval artillery specs in use from 16th through 19th century.
of course today I cannot find that site, it listed the saker as 3.75 caliber & 5lb charge, wiki lists a 3.25 caliber & 4 lb charge with same cannon weight for the saker gun, :

'The saker was a medium cannon slightly smaller than a culverin developed during the early 16th century and often used by the English.[1] It was named after the Saker Falcon, a large falconry bird native to the Middle East.[2]

'A saker's barrel was approximately 9.5 ft (2.9m) long, had a calibre of 3.25 inches (8.26 cm) and weighed approximately 1900 lb (860 kg). It could fire round shot weighing 5.25 lb (2.4 kg) approximately 7400 ft (2.3 km) using 4 lb (1.8 kg) of black powder.[3][4] The shot was designed not to explode but bounce along the ground to cause as much damage as possible.[5] Tests performed in France during the 1950s show a saker's range was over 9000 ft (2.7 km) when fired at a 45 degree angle.'

I only post info as fact when researched as thouroughly as I can, Thanks again for your help & HH , Herbie

 

[wwwtimmcp]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

I want to be in another state far far away if you ever fire 4 lbs of powder from that cannon. here is a link to a 32 pounder the navy adopted in 1844 it used a 4.5 lb powder charge. imagine if you will how large size wise the powder charge is, there won't be a whole lot of room left for a cannon ball.

http://travel.nostalgiaville.com/Minnesota/RedwoodFalls,MN/redwood falls, mn.htm

 

[ThTx]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

It looks like part of a chain shot to me. Two half spheres were held together by a short length of chain or a rod. As the round left the muzzle, it would tumble and spin making a very destructive round. Especially against infantry on land or sails and rigging at sea.

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

I want to be in another state far far away if you ever fire 4 lbs of powder from that cannon. here is a link to a 32 pounder the navy adopted in 1844 it used a 4.5 lb powder charge. imagine if you will how large size wise the powder charge is, there won't be a whole lot of room left for a cannon ball.

http://travel.nostalgiaville.com/Minnesota/RedwoodFalls,MN/redwood falls, mn.htm

Charge amounts could vary considerably depending on target objective and the size & strength of the artillery piece.
note table below with another notation for 5+lb charge in a 1500 lb weapon.
also the 2 lb charge you mention in a 1200 lb gun, both firing the 3.5 Saker round.




C L Wt P
Cannon Perier 12 8 3500 4
Cannon Perier 10 6 d 3500 3½
Cannon Perier 9 6 3500 3
Cannon of Eight 8 10 8000 40
Cannon of Seven 7 9 b 7000 25
Demi-cannon 6½ 9¾ 6000 20
Demi-cannon Drake 6½ 8 d 3000 9
Culverin 5½ 13 d 4500 15
Culverin Drake 5½ 7 b 2000 5
Demi-culverin 4½ 12 2500 9
Demi-culverin, Drake 4½ 6 1500 3½
Saker 3½ 10½ 1500 5¼
Saker Drake 3½ 5¼ 1200 2
Minion 3¼ 8 e 1200 3¾
Falconet 2¾ 9 a 700 2½
Falconet 2¼ 9 500 1¼


a Five eights.
b One third.
d Two thirds.
e One eights.

Key:

C Calibre in inches.

L Length of barrel in feet calculated from the calibre.

Wt Weight of Ordnance in pounds.

P Weight of Powder in pounds.

 

[steelheadwill]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

It looks like part of a chain shot to me. Two half spheres were held together by a short length of chain or a rod. As the round left the muzzle, it would tumble and spin making a very destructive round. Especially against infantry on land or sails and rigging at sea.

Thanks ThTx!
Since I have 2 of these now, I may need to attach one of my old chains to make my own 'Chain Shot' Great Digs to You!!

 

[wwwtimmcp]

Re: Broken Saker Cannon Round & Grenade ?

you can load all the powder you want in a cannon I just don't want to be around when you do. the british used a general rule of 1/3 the weight of the cannon ball. in proof testing and trajectory tests they would go half. according to john muller in a treatise of artillery 1780 1.25 lbs of powder was the normal charge.

you might also want to consider the time period we are talking about. until the bessemer process was perfected, cannons had a nasty habit of exploding and killing gun crews. this happened to one of commodore perry's guns in the battle of lake erie in 1812.

here is one of my thingy's it is attached to an iron rod by two roves, (left of sinkers). considering the time frame and the manufacturing capabilities at that time I doubt they would expend that much time for a projectile. all the chain shot I've seen looks like two cannon balls joined by a chain. bar shot looks like a dog bone that I've seen. I used to have several bar shots from a french pirate ship that I dove with bert kilbride on down in the virgin islands.

happy hunting to all.