Button ID please

[buddyb]

This button is post CW but I don't know when. It appears to look the the same as a CW Staff Officer button. It has 21 stars around the eagle and measures .780 in in diameter. Any idea if this is a military button and if so, when?
Thanks for looking.

 

[DirtDigler]

I would say it's military. General staff officer style. The back isn't marked though. Why do you say it's post Civil War?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I would like to know the answer to this because I have the same button. I was told it may be a reproduction button, others said its real. I found my old post with no green check so I must not have been satisfied with the answer. The front is definitely military but he back of this button is in question.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,295338.0.html

Is yours the muffin type? Where did you obtain it? Is it 2 or 3 piece?

I was also told that it may be 1910 or later but it cant be any later than 1904 can it? (we used the Great Seal type buttons).

 

[DirtDigler]

See the 'Button Experts' post here.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

See the 'Button Experts' post here.

yes same button, not solved.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

To Buddyb:
BigCypressHunter suggested I copy my reply about this particular version of "US Army Officer" button (posted in another What-Is-It discussion) over here into your discussion, to answer your questions. You asked: "Any idea if this is a military button and if so, when?"

----------------------

In my opinion, for what seems to be several rock-solid reasons, your two "self-shank" buttons are the Civilian "Fashion" usage "Army Officer" button equivalent of the Civilian-copy US Navy buttons which have been discussed in this forum recently.

Here are the reasons. The first two are Army Regulations reasons. The third is a "practicality" reason.

By official US Army Regulations, the Great Seal button officially replaced this type of 3-piece button for US Army officers in the year 1902. The very simply-made, cheaply-produced "self-shank" back seen in your photo does not seem to have come into use until well after 1902.
By official US Army Regulations, buttons for Officers were to be gilted/plated, and buttons for Enlisted men were not to be gilted/plated. Your photos of your two self-shank "US Army officer" buttons (and Buddyb's "US Army officer" self-shank button) are clearly not gilted/plated.
The reason almost all Military buttons have a long-ish shank is to provide enough clearance (or "room") for thick wool military-uniform cloth to fit underneath the button when the uniform is "buttoned up." The self-shank buttons fit much too closely to the cloth for use on a thick-cloth coat or jacket.

I know of a good reason for small-ish numbers of these buttons to be produced in the early 20th-century. Civil War veterans and 1898 Spanish-American War veterans liked to wear their uniforms to Reunions/Conventions. But if a officer veteran lost an Original (Military) button from his old uniform after 1901, and he wanted to buy a replacement, he would be unable to get another Original, because none of those were being manufactured for the US Army after 1901. So, by their now-civilian customers' "special order," a button-making company manufactured some non-Regulation copies for the veterans who needed replacement buttons.

 

[buddyb]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the responses and help.
Replies in order:

Dirtdigler,
Post CW due to self shank. That period should have a wire loop.

Bigcypresshunter,
I think we both have a good reply from TheCannonballGuy. I am not sure what you mean by the "muffin" style, but it is a rounded 2 piece button. I found it near a 1777 cottage along with some flat buttons in Loudoun Co, VA.

TheCannonballGuy,
Thank you for the very thorough explanation. What you say seems reasonable to me. I'll consider my button to be an early 1900's and keep on hoping that I find some real CW buttons. I found my only CW button last year (Maryland) and at first I thought it was a modern blazer button. It still had much of the gilting on it and it was verified to be from the CW era. One down and many to go.

Thanks again guys,
buddyb

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Bigcypresshunter,
I think we both have a good reply from TheCannonballGuy. I am not sure what you mean by the "muffin" style, but it is a rounded 2 piece button.

Thanks again guys,
buddyb

This is the muffin style. Hard to see in the pic but the button on the left is 3 piece, the button on the right is 2 piece. Both muffin style.




Yes I agree with Cannonballguy. That explains why these buttons seem to always show up with WWI era Great Seals. If you think its solved, post the green check. Thanks.