CAN ANYONE READ THIS BLUFF PANEL?

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

CAN YOU READ THIS BLUFF PANEL? THERE ARE SEVERAL S/S ON IT.
I HAVE THIS PIC AND OTHER INFO ON THE LOST TREASURE THREAD BUT I HAVE HAD LIMITED LUCK THERE AND I HOPE SOME NEW FOLKS MIGHT SEE IT HERE AND BE ABLE TO HELP ME OUT.

THANKS IN ADVANCE
PROSPECTORMIKEL

 

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[Connecticut Sam]

Best of luck to you.

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

THANKS DANNY.
AT LEAST I KNOW THIS THREAD WASN'T JUST MY IMAGINATION.

HH
P-MIKEL

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Very true, my new friend.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Maybe you could take a more shaded pic of it, and maybe outline it with chalk?

 

[Pala Y Pico]

HI , Try treasure marks /signs.

Good luck

 

[Curtis]

If this is a significant rock carving we are not suppose to use chalk--can mess things up for dating---take the picture with a digital camera, open it in a photo modify software, make it a negative and the carving will stand out very well in most cases...then re-post and maybe we can help...I cannot see enough to even try to decipher it. Micahel Paul Henson has some good sighns in his books as does Kennedy. Then there is the treaure hunting unviveristy on line that has some great stuff too. Good hunting!

Curtis

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

THANKS CURTIS,
THIS IS A CROPPED PHOTO OF JUST THE SIGNS THAT ARE IMPORTANT. MAKING A NEW PHOTO IS NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME, DUE TO SERIOUS HEALTH ISSUES AND THE REMOTE AREA.
I HAVE STUDIED THESE SIGNS FOR SEVERAL YEARS WITHOUT GETTING ANY CONCRETE ANSWERS. IT SEEMS THAT THEY WERE MADE BY MORE THAN ONE GROUP, (LATEST THEORY).
I HAVE OTHER THREADS, MOST WITH SEVERAL GOOD IDEAS AS TO ONE PART OR ANOTHER, BUT
THEY ARE DIFFICULT TO READ TOGETHER. THIS PHOTO SHOULD CONFINE THE AREA TO ABOUT
30" TO 36" RECTANGLE. THERE IS NO CHALK ON THE PHOTO. THE LIGHT COLOR IS A NATURAL MOSS THAT IS VERY COMMON IN THIS AREA. SO THAT YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR, I WILL TRY TO DIRECT YOUR EYES TO THE SIGNS. THERE IS A LARGE SIGMA NEAR THE CENTER OF THE PIC, TO THE LEFT SIDE AND JUST ABOUT EVEN WITH THE TOP OF THE SIGMA THERE IS ,WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD IS A "BROKEN CHALIS" IT LOOKS LIKE AN ODD NUMBER 5 OR 3 CARVED AT AN ANGLE. DIRECTLY BELOW THAT IS THE THIRD AND FINAL S/S. IT IS A LETTER "Z" THAT HAS A STRAIGHT TOP, A SHORT DIAGONAL, WHICH HAS BEEN CROSSED, AND CURVY BOTTOM,
(LOOKS MORE SCRIPT LIKE). THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THEY WERE CARVED BY MAN LONG AGO.
I HAVE PLACED MY FINGER IN THEM AND FEALT THE GROOVES. THE BIG PROPLEM IS FINDING SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEY MEAN "TOGETHER", AS IN DONE BY THE SAME PERSON.
SEVERAL FOLKS HAVE HELPED WITH ONE AND THEN ANOTHER BUT THE ONLY THEORY THAT I CAN MAKE OF THEM ALL THREE BEING THERE TOGETHER THAT WORKS SO FAR IS THAT THE FRENCH WERE THERE AND WERE OVERTAKEN BY SPANISH.
THAT COMES OUT AS THIS; THE Z IS FOR ZINK, THE SIGMA = THE SUM OF ALL (SIGNS?) AND THE BROKEN CHALIS INDICATING THAT THE FRENCH ROYALTY/CHURCH CONTRACT HAS BEEN DESOLVED AND THAT THE CLAIM BECAME THE PROPERTY OF THE SPANISH, AS THERE ARE MANY SPANISH CROSSES IN THE AREA.
I WILL TRY TO FIND THE BOOKS THAT YOU MENTIONED AT THE LIBRARY, HOWEVER, IF YOU ARE SPEAKING OF MIKE PICKETT'S BOOK ON SIGNS AND SYMBOLS, HE HAS LOST CREDIBILITY WITH MANY FOLKS THAT HAVE TRIED TO GET THE BOOKS FROM HIM WHICH HAVE BEEN PAID FOR, ONE OF WHICH STATED THAT MIKE TOLD HIM THAT HE DIDN'T CARE AS TO WHETHER HE GOT HIS BOOK OR HIS MONEY BACK. OTHERS HAVE SENT MONEY MORE THAN ONCE AND HAVE NOT GOTTEN THEIR BOOK. I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THREE MONTHS FOR MY COPY. HE WILL NOT RETURN MY PHONE CALLS OR MY MONEY. I AM STILL TRYING TO GET THE BOOK, BUT DON'T KNOW THAT I CAN TRUST HIS RESEARCH DUE TO THIS LACK OF RESPONSABILITY. THERE IS A GROWING NUMBER OF FOLKS THAT HAVE BECOME QUITE VOCAL ABOUT HAVING HIS ADVERTISING REMOVED FROM T-NET AND GPAA'S MAGAZINE. I HAVE HAD TO REWRITE PARTS OF MY BOOK ON THIS MINE AND FIND OTHER DOCUMENTATION DUE TO THIS PROBLEM.
I HOPE THAT THIS INFO HELPS YOU TO SEE, AND EVEN BETTER , DATE THE MARKS. THEY SEEM TO HAVE MANY POSSIBILITIES, DEPENDING ON WHOME YOU ASK.
THANKS.
PROSPECTORMIKEL

 

[Connecticut Sam]

Thank you #6 & #7 for your great information.

 

[Curtis]

If you can find a copy of Steve Shaffer's book on signs (of Men and Gold)you will have something...I have an autographed copy that I always consult when looking for Spanish signs. I just looked and found there are signs just like you mentioned in there and it tells the meaning of them. I met him a year or so ago and he is the absolute best source for knowledge on Spanish trails! Universities consult with him!

This could be a trail marker, if so you scan the horizon for the long distance trail indicators and will look for certain shaped rocks to narrow things down, then certain signs indicate if its the King's way or not, then for more and more local signs. The Spanish were everywhere, even as far away as Indian, Kentucky, etc.


You can write and check if he has any left: Steven B. Shaffer PO box 578 Spanish Fork, Utah 84660 (ISBN 0-9644378-0-5)
Curtis

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

THANK YOU CURTIS.

I WILL TRY TO FIND THAT BOOK. I WAS SURPRISED TO SEE THAT ADDRESS. I HAVE FAMILY LIVING IN SPANISH FORK, BUT HAD NOT HEARD OF THIS BOOK BEFORE. IT SOUNDS PROMISING. I HAVE GOTTEN SOME FEEDBACK ON THESE SIGNS AND THEY ALL ARE PLAUSIBLE MEANINGS ON EACH OF THEM, BUT DO NOT WORK WELL WITH EACH OTHER. DATING THEM
MAY BE THE BEST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN. IF THEY ARE NOT DATED CLOSE TO EACH OTHER, THEN A THEORY MAY BE MUCH MORE CLEAR.

I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP AND INTEREST.

PROSPECTORMIKEL

 

[Frankn]

Mikel. The problem is the picture is out of focus. If you had one in focus you could take it to a photolab and have them raise the contrast. Or perhaps a friend with photoshop or elements could do the same. I have done it many times. Frank

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

THANKS FRANKN,

THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT YOU CAN'T MAKE A SILK PURSE OUT OF A SOWS EAR...
THE PICS ARE MADE FROM COPIES OF 35MM CAMERA.

HOWEVER; IF ALL OF THE STARS LINE UP JUST RIGHT, I MAY BE ABLE TO GET BACK TO THE SITE ONE DAY THIS FALL. I KNOW THAT I CAN GET BETTER SHOTS. I DON'T SEE HOW THEY WILL HELP, BECAUSE THERE IS NO AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE THREE S/S. THEY HAVE BEEN FOUND IN BOOKS AND ON WEB SITES AND IN LIBRARIES AND THEY ARE LIKE TRYING TO PUT A PUZZLE TOGETHER WITH PARTS FROM THREE DIFFERENT BOXES.

NONE THE LESS, I AM GOING TO TRY TO GET MORE PICS OF THESE AND MAYBE SOME NEW S/S FROM THE AREA AROUND THESE.

I HAVE A FRIEND THAT I KNOW THAT I CAN TRUST ON THE SITE AND HE IS WILLING TO HELP ME GET DOWN THE MOUNTAIN SIDE AND BACK UP THE MOUNTAIN SIDE! DOWN IS A
NO-BRAINER BACK UP IS THE HARD PART. SO WHEN THE HEAT DROPS AND THE SNAKES ARE NOT A PROBLEM I'M GONNA' GIVE THIS BABY ONE MORE PUSH... OR DIE TRYIN'.


PROSPECTORMIKEL

 

[Frankn]

What you have to remember about the Spanish markings is that before a certain date They weren't standard. At that date the King made all explorers use standard markings.I can't remember the date. Also those markings were used with additional markings on a waybill. I am a cache hunter, but I hunt later targets. Never hunted anything older than 1790. Frank

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

THANKS AGAIN, FRANKN.

THAT DATE THAT YOU SPOKE OF IS WHAT HAS MAD THIS BLUFF SO HARD TO WORK THRU.

I HAVE THE DATE OF SOME OF THE KING'S LAWS, SOMEWHERE IN MY RESEARCH, BUT I CAN ONLY DATE ONE OF THE S/S, AND THAT IS THE Z ( AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BLURY PHOTO)
IT IS DATED PRE 1761 IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. I HAD ORIGINALY THOUGHT IT WAS THE S/S FOR ZINC, BUT THE SMALL CROSS MARK IN THE MIDDLE OF THE Z HAS BEEN TRANSLATED IN AN OLD ALCHEMY BOOK, TO INDICATE FIRE.... IT AS TRANSLATED BY A MAN NAMED DITEROT BACK IN THE MID 1760'S, WHILE THE Z WITH A CROSSMARK ON THE TAIL OF THE LETTER INDICATES ZINC.

THE ONLY SIGN OF THE THREE THAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TRUST HAS DATED THE SITE TO EARLY, PRE-1760 ERA. AS THIS SIGN IS ALCHEMAICLE, IT SEEMS TO FOLLOW THAT THE OTHERS IN THE GROUP ARE ALCHEMY SIGNS BUT, THE OTHERS SEAM TO BE MESSAGES ABOUT THE LOCATION BY DISTANCE AND/OR OWNERSHIP OF THE MINE.

THE ODD LOOKING S/S THAT LOOKS LIKE A NUMER 5 OR 3, APPEARS TO BE A BROKEN CHALICE S/S, THIS HAS BEEN VERY DIFFICULT TO NAIL DOWN (POOR DOCUMENTATION RECORDS) I ONLY HAVE THE WORD OF SOMEONE THAT WANTS TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS.
SO I HAVE NO DOCUMENTATION. I HAVE FOUND ONE SIGN IN THAT SAME BOOK THAT SHOWS
A GOBLET TYPE OF A CUP TILTED OVER A ROUND PIECE OF BREAD WHICH INDICATES
"A PASTOR" AND THE CUP OR CALSICE CAN BE DATED, BUT THE SIGN IS NOT AN EXACT MATCH.
BUT IT DOES SHOW THAT IT DOESN'T MATCH THE SPANISH CUP S/S.

IF IN FACT THIS IS A BROKEN CHALICE, IT INDICATES THAT THE COVENANT WITH THE CHURCH HAS BEEN BROKEN, AND THE CHURCH HAS BEEN PAID IN FULL. I NEED DOCUMENTATION ON THAT SIGN.

THE LARGE SIGMA HAS A COUPLE OF POSSIBILITIES. IT HAS A GREEK MATHMATICAL MEANING (THE SUM OF ALL, OR THE SUM OF ALL SIGNS) IT ALSO HAS A LATTER DATE MEANING ( 200 X SOME MEASUREMENTS, I.E. FEET, VARA, METERS, CENTIMETERS, ETC...)
AND CAN BE DATED TO BEFORE CHRIST. DOCUMENTATION IS VAGUE, BUT TRUSTED ON OTHER SITES, MOSTLY SPANISH CACHES WHICH ARE IN LINE WITH CORTEZ'S EXPLORATION
OR THEREABOUT.

THE "BIG ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM" IS TRYING TO READ THEM TOGETHER WITH THESE MEANINGS. I STILL HOPE TO FIND A DEFINITION ON ONE OF THEM THAT WILL BRING THE OTHER TWO INTO SYNC.

MY HOPE IS TO DATE THE MINE AND KNOW WHAT IS INSIDE. I DO NOT WANT TO OPEN THE MINE IF IT FULL OF SLAVE BODIES. I WILL NOT OPEN IT WITHOUT THE HELP OF ONE OF THEIR TRIBLE ELDERS AND RELIGIOUS LEADERS. I KNOW THAT THEIR BELIEFS ARE DIFFERENT FROM MY OWN, BUT I RESPECT THEIR RIGHTS AND WILL DO ALL THAT I CAN TO PRESERVE THEIR HERITAGES, EVEN AT THE COST OF PRECIOUS METALS THAT MAY LIE WITHIN.

I HAVE HAD A FEW FOLKS THAT THINK THAT NOT OPENING THE MINE MAKES ME COME OFF AS A "LESS THAN HONEST" WRITER, AS I AM WRITTING A BOOK ABOUT THE SEARCH FOR THE MINE. MOST FOLKS BELIEVE AS I DO ABOUT RESPECTING THE DEAD. BUT UNTIL THAT DAY COMES WHEREIN I KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT I WILL LEAVE THE MINE SEALED.

THE TRUE TREASURE HAS BEEN THE HUNT. THE LOSSES FROM THE HUNT CAN NEVER BE REPAID, EVEN IF IS FULL OF RICHES.

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP

PROSPECTORMIKEL

 

[Frankn]

Prospector, I don't have much on Spanish signs. I lost my best book in a fire. I only have an old Penfield book. The three symbol was used to show a turn in direction. It meant turn right, reversed it meant turn left. Your sigma could actually be a 3. The symbol is described as a double curve. Also the European 7 was shown sometimes with a line drawn horizontally thru the center. I can't find an s/s but wavy lines sometimes indicate water. Frank

 

[Mileaway]

Hi PM, it's like Frankn said the photo is out of focus so it's hard to improve on it much. I've done a little work on it to try and bring out some more detail and turned it 90 degrees four times for you. Maybe that will help Good Luck, M

 

[tat2guy]

I see washington and lincoln. Now Before you all beat me up. I asked my psychiatrist if I could reply, lol. Look at the middle left part of the pic.

HH Jay

 

[PROSPECTORMIKEL]

JAY,
I HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THAT ROCK..... AND I NEVER SAW THEM BEFORE!
I KNOW THAT THE ONE NEAREST TO THE CENTER IS MOSS AND CRACKS, BUT THE ONE ON THE FAR LEFT IS FACING THE MINE OPENING AND I REALLY WANT TO GO BACK TO CHECK THAT OUT.
I HAVE ANOTHER THREAD ON THE SIGNS AND MARKERS FORUM, THAT IS TITLED
"TWO MORE SYMBOLS TO DETERMINE IF SPANISH, FRENCH, OR...." OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL FOLKS MENTION AND TRY TO ENLIGHTEN ME ABOUT FACE SIGNS,
BUT I COULDN'T SEE ANYTHING THAT I THOUGHT WAS A FACE. YOU ARE THE FIRST TO SEE THIS AND YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. I TRIED TO GET BACK TO THE BLUFF A FEW WEEKS AGO TO
GET BETTER PICS, BUT COULDN'T GET TO IT DUE TO SEVERAL STORMS AND A COUPLE OF BAD
WINTERS. THE OLD PATHS WERE COVERED WITH DOWNED TREES AND NEW SAPLINGS.
I HAVE A FRIEND THAT TOOK ME ON THAT TRIP AND WANTS TO TRY AGAIN EARLY NEXT YEAR.

YOU HAVE PUSHED ME OVER THE EDGE WITH YOUR ENTRY. THAT BLUFF HAS BEEN HOLDING
UP WORK ON THE BOOK THAT I AM WRITING AND I NEED TO GO BACK.

THANKS FOR THE PUSH. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO TRAVEL AND DRAG MYSELF UP THE MOUNTAIN, BUT NOW I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE TRIP.

IF THIS PANS OUT, WOULD YOU LIKE AN HONERABLE MENTION ON THE "FIND"? I HAVE OTHERS WHO WILL BE GETTING MENTIONED FOR THEIR CONTRIBUTION.

THANKS AGAIN, AND GOD BLESS.


MIKEL

 

[tat2guy]

Pros,

Thanks for the kind words. Im glad that you've found inspiration from my comedic releif. An honoralbe mention in your book, I'd be honored to accept that. On one condition, that I can purchase an autographed copy when your finished. I'll checkout your other post to. I have to admit, the TH'ing bug had recently bit me. So Im new at this.

To me the 2 faces on that rock look like their looking over each of your shoulders. I'd look in both directions.

HH Jay