cave markings what do they mean?

[kebac]

I am new member, so forgive any goofs. I am simply trying to post some cave markings that have been buried that I found. I was wondering if anyone has any input on what these marks along with the "J. James" 1860 might mean.

 

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[nastyweather]

jesse james maybe ? in what state did u find this ?

 

[kebac]

Oklahoma

 

[Blind.In.Texas]

Oklahoma

Welcome to TNET. Nice job on the close-ups. They may be a bit too close. Also, the 'M' in James is not foramtted the same way as the rest of the letters. The M's format may have been to draw attention from the two peaks to the valley below. As in, a valley between two mountains. IMO. GL.

 

[kebac]

Thanks! There are a lot of other markings on this cave that are very strange also. I am the only person that knows about the hidden cave as it has been buried for a long long time and is in a really remote place .

 

[kebac]

If you run the little slide at the bottom of the last picture, you can see what looks like a boot carved at the bottom of the S on the JAMES. Doesn't that look like a boot or shoe that was intentionally carved with the S. Just wondering if that might mean steps, paces or feet. Just guesssing however.

 

[Shortstack]

Welcome to the forum, kebac. Since you dug this cave out and it is not known by many (or ANY) besides you--------keep the info very private.
I've taken the liberty to reduce the size a little bit without losing detail and enhanced it a bit in black and white. Negative versions doesn't seem to add anything. That "M" does look like 2 mountains, like B.I.T. pointed out and there is a boot shape in one of the pix, but that "S" looks more like a map of a canyon or river. And if you look at that bottom line on the "E", you'll see an up-tick on it's end.

I suggest that anymore "cleaning" of these symbols be done with only a hog bristle paint brush. About a 4" wide one would give you very good control without destroying any detail of the carvings. Take some kind of blotting material such as a roll of paper towels or some cloth towels to blot off some of the moisture before taking your next photos. That'll help prevent the camera flash reflections on the moisture from possibly effecting the quality of the photos.

There was a place called Jacks in southeastern Dewey County. A place called Jack's Fork, in Pushmataha District, Choctaw Nations. Several places, around the state called Jackson and a town called Jamesville in Muskogee County. This info comes from the book, Oklahoma Place Names, Second Edition, by George H. Shirk.

 

[kebac]

Thank you Shortstack. I appreciate your input. What you say makes sense. There is a creek in a valley about 200 yards west of the site. I will check an aerial photo to see if it might be shaped like an S ,etc. Thank you! I am not aware of a town named Jack in Oklahoma. I do know the James boys did refer to momey/gold as jack. Do you think the J on jack has a backward J on the right side below the circle? The circle over the J is kind of odd also.

 

[Shortstack]

kebac:
That "O" is a little odd, but there are a lot of things in your photos that will seem odd until you learn to decipher them. You will now have to do a lot of research into the KGC and the James brothers. Start that research here in the section Marks and Signs. Read everything in this section whether or not you think the post has anything to do with your needs. Ancients symbols became Indian symbols then Spanish symbols and finally KGC symbols. Some were use as is and others were modified by the later users. Be prepared for a lot of notekeeping and photo taking. But, it's really, really interesting. I would suggest thoroughly checking that cave. For someone to go to the trouble of burying it, it must have some very important information and possibly some valuables hidden there. Use a good metal detector to check the floors and walls of the cave and the area outside area. If you get a signal, dig carefully and do not move any metal targets (or buried marked rocks). Their positions could be very important.

Read everything posted by Old Dog, rangler, DanielLindsey, dsty, Blind in Texas, Texas Jay, Desertmoons, and Rockhopper2, to name just a few of the most knowledgeable folks on this forum. There are some others, but these people came to mind first and I'm sure I've missed some of the good ones. There are also a very few naysayers who will put down everything posted. You will quickly learn who they are and will have to decide whether or not you'll allow them to steal your dream.

 

[kebac]

Thank you Shortstack. I really appreciate your help. It is really interesting and I will do as you suggest. There are numerous other markings and some look kind of like Viking Runes I think. It appears this site was occupied for a really long time up to the late 19th century. I will try to post some other markings later as I have time and figure out how to work my way around this website. It is sure interesting.

 

[Shortstack]

Viking Runes would fit the pattern very well. I would suggest that you cover or erase your tracks into the area of the cave to keep someone from accidentally finding it. Then find different ways into the area so as not to use the same way two times in a row. I'm not suggesting that you get paranoid; just take some good security precautions because you may have found a totally new record of goodies. You've at least discovered a place that hasn't been seen since...........well, since it was buried. Wondered when that was. You wrote that the place is in a remote area. That's good and to your advantage. Whatever you do, don't tell any archies now or later. They'll lock things up on you.

 

[oddrock]

Shortstack is giving you some good info..be careful who you trust...

Oddrock

 

[kebac]

Thanks for the advice to both of you Shortstack and Oddrock. I will try to post some more of the other markings for you tomorrow if I can. Again, thanks!

 

[seekeroforo]

Kebac,
Welcome to tnet!

As I am fairly new also, and know little of the James brothers and gang, I would love to see more input on this thread.

As you have stated, there may be some forms of Runic inscriptions in your cave. I am interested in seeing some pics posted of these. I know of several instances in Oklahoma of Viking explorations and documented discoveries.

Please continue to fascinate us with your explorations (while giving no information about the location as others have mentioned). You may have a site that will further solidify the existence of early travels and settlers to this continent beyond what is currently accepted.

I would love the opportunity to offer any means of deciphering the runic inscriptions if you so choose to let us in only your awesome find.

Regards,

~Seeker~

 

[kebac]

Thanks Seeker, for your comments. I will try to post a picture of the possible runes for you today sometime. The picture that I will post will be an old polaroid I took 40 years ago. When I accidently discovered the cave 40 years ago, we uncovered them and took some pictures and recovered the cave. I relocated to another part of the state intending to go back, but simply did not take or have the time until recently. I went back and uncovered the one part but have not uncovered the markings in the old polariod. Will be doing that soon. The site has changed somewhat in 40 years. Two rooms have apparently caved in because there are two sunken places nearby. In the polariod where my ole friend is in the hole next to the marks, it has caved in and I have not taken the time to dig that part yet. My friend in the picture has been dead about 30 years. At the time our only interest was in hunting arrowheads and didn't have much interest then in the markings. I guess we were simply to dumb to realize the site might have more interesting aspects. We just assumed that it was an old campsite that was used for a long time and abandoned when it was covered up by dirt slides and mother nature. Anyway, it is interesting in trying to understand now what it is all about.

 

[kebac]

Here's more pictures from the cave that I hope someone might have input on as to what they mean. Thanks to all of you. I am a new member and am still trying to figure all this out and how to post and answer your comments. Thanks again all of you.

 

[kebac]

Shortstack- If you see the latest five pictures that I posted, I wonder if you could enhance those also for me in black and white like you did the first three. Thanks!
Seeker, the photo with my old friend is the old photo that shows what may be Runes I think. At least I haven't seen anything like those symbols before. The sight must really be old because the phot on the green wall shows some really old or weathered marks which I can't read. Thanks again guys for your help and comments.

 

[Shortstack]

O.K., kebac:
I downsized the pix and turned them to black and white with a little enhancements. The Polaroid photo was difficult to really bring out because the vertical streaks from the Polaroid process comes out, too. I messed around with it as much as possible by bringing out the dark areas and darkening the bright areas and see some interesting numbers above your friends head and some symbols.
In you first photo, there seems to be an opening at the base of the rock indicating the possibility or probability that there is a larger opening or cave opening still hidden.
Hope this info helps you.

 

[kebac]

Shortstack- Thank you for doing that for me. There is the cave opening under the ledge where you see the dark spot. Over the years the dirt has washed into the opening. I have been inside where the dark spot is years ago when I found the site.The area under there was about 10feet by 10feet and was about 6 feet high. A large slab had broken loose from the ceiling leaving about a 6 inch gap where I could feel a cool breeze comming over the top of the slab. I remember thinking that might mean another opening somewhere, but the slab was to large to move and dirt had washed into the room until about 5 feet of the slab was seen. It appeared part of the wall on the left inside the room had caved or slid down making the floor then angle about 45 degrees. Oddly ,there was something I have never figured out how it could be positioned at the top of the 45degree slide, but there was an really old iron pot at the top of the heap(instead of sliding down the angle) that was laying on it's side with the three hammer welded legs pointing to the room. The pot was about 12 inches in diameter, and about 12 inches tall with a really rotten/fragile bail. The pot had a really large opened crack in the side and was empty except for some charcoal and small bones stuck to the bottom on the inside. How the pot got where it was and remained where it was on top of the slide still puzzles me. I have no idea what is on the other side of the slab that broke loose from the ceiling because it blocks going further into the cave. It would take some digging to go around the slab, so I have been thinking about putting a smoke bomb in there and take a leaf blower and blow the smoke over the slab and see if there is another entry somewhere nearby. It is really interesting, but would take a lot of work. Thanks again for working the photos for me.

 

[kebac]

Go to the little slide thing at the bottom of the last picture and slide the picture left or right to see the whole picture. It will let you see the whole picture on all the pictures.