Commentary on Recent TNet Events

[Msbeepbeep]

Sorry, want happen, Banner finds are for rare, exceptional, unusual or unique finds.

Jeff?

 

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[Peyton Manning]

yes Ma'am?

 

[Limitool]

TNet has been a great source of information and inspiration to many in this hobby. A great gathering place to sit around a virtual pub and swap stories, share pictures, and generally enjoy the company of friends. I am thankful for it, and I appreciate the work from the staff that goes into keeping it good and honest.

The stories are why we come here. There are times however, when the stories defy logic.They are intentionally deceptive. Sometimes the attempts are crude. “Look, here’s a handful of shiny un-crusty Large Cents I dug up in Grandma’s flower bed”. Other times they are more subtle. I think it has more to do with the experience of the deceiver.

Ultimately though, people figure it out no matter how experienced the deception. And so it was in the recent high-profile case here. I guess I don’t really understand the motivation behind planted find posts. Is it glory? The admiration of your friends? Do you really want your friends admiring you for something that isn’t really true? And do you really think your friends will not eventually figure it out?

We’ve all been digging long enough to know that hard work can produce some awesome finds. Research, coupled with hard work, coupled with a little bit of luck makes for great success. But we all also know that the best research, coupled with the hardest work, and the best luck, isn’t going to produce awesome find after awesome find, day after day. There’s only so many gold coins, and colonial silvers and perfect-condition Spanish you’re going to find in the course of a week. And because the motivation is a need for attention, the deceiver will eventually push the limits of believability.

That certainly happened here. Some figured it out early. Some a bit later. Some didn’t want to believe it because it involved a friend. For my part, at the point where I figured it out, I simply stopped reading and commenting on the poster’s finds. I’m sure others did too. Not sure of the precise mechanism by which the site’s staff figured it out, but I’m glad they did.

And now for the actual reason for all of this word-salad. I have noticed that this latest incident has changed this place a little. And that is the shame of it. It has taken otherwise confident hard-working hobbyists and made them doubt one another, and made them doubt themselves. It has taken people that I know are some of the hardest working and most successful detectorists in the hobby and made them feel the need to justify themselves, and defend their finds as if they are under suspicion. That sucks. And it is the price we all pay for current events.

I hope it doesn’t last long. (And to those who feel that these events cast doubt on your own finds… don’t. We can tell.)

Very well stated guy.....

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

Personally I think the banner thing is a joke. But others seem to get off on it, so I'm kinda like 'who cares?'.

 

[Keppy]

Personally I think the banner thing is a joke. But others seem to get off on it, so I'm kinda like 'who cares?'.

Yes i have never voted for a banner or what's called a banner find .. Like you said let that for the one's that get off on it ... But i could care less about things like that..

 

[ScubaDetector]

As an EX officer. We had to judge people and events every day. You had to muddle through truth and BS. Face to face sometimes is relatively easy. Looking at a computer screen, not so much. I used to belong to a club. Some brought unbelievable finds EVERY month to get the find of the month awards. Turned me off. I decided not to compete. I just enjoy showing my finds and enjoy the hobby.

People come and go. Honest ones and deceptive ones. I am saying I won't judge another because of the reputation of one. Each person I met was innocent unless proven guilty. That should be the same criteria on here. However, I also know how impossible that is for some. On the flip side of being an officer, I caught shoplifters for over 5 years in SLC. I was considered one of the best. Why? Everyone was guilty unless I decided they were just shoppers. I sometimes could spot a shoplifter as soon as they came in the door. I got cynical and very mistrusting of everybody.

WE DO NOT NEED that kind of negativity on this site. We need to accept finds and if we have doubts, either not comment or PM a mod. I did that today in fact. Most of us are on here to help others and post our finds and ogle others finds. We enjoy this hobby and how it enlightens and enriches our lives. Lets not let the acts of a few, ruin our belief in others that enjoy this pastime as much as we do. Again I give my 2¢ freely.

 

[kcm]

To the original post; the reason for the deception:
Obviously I cannot know, as Vino was gone before I arrived. However, how many times have you heard about "the one that got away"? What about the 9" fish that in 2 weeks grows to 18" long? People like attention; some more than others. A common phrase in our language (and probably everywhere on the globe) is about being the center of attention. Why do they do it? Why did the arsonist start the fire"? Why did he then go back to watch the action? I'm a veteran firefighter and still can't wrap my head around that one!

Now consider this - why is gold so coveted? How many folks got gold fever when they started prospecting? Well, let's look back in time a little...there was a LOT of gold still just sitting on top of the ground back when the US was forming. The Spanish grabbed all they could find. But why was THAT still there? Because it wasn't covet by the Indians. Yes it was shiny, but also very heavy. It had no practical purpose to them. A few pieces were probably picked up now and then like most any person might pick up a nice rock and stick it in their pocket. When the Spanish and the settlers came here, there was already an affinity to gold - it was prized by kings! hence, the common man finding gold. With gold, a common man could stand out; be the life of the party; get 'preferential' treatment from others; could make a better life for his/her family.

I'm guessing it was something similar for Vino. He may well have had many good finds, but maybe was wanting more time in the limelight. Without more information, there's really no way of knowing. However, we deal with things and with people like this every day in real life. How does that differ from online? In person, you can see their expression, body language, hear their voice. Here, it's just typed words - much more difficult to distinguish truth from untruth.

We all want to trust others, and we all want to be trusted. To some extent, each of us is untrustworthy, as it truly is impossible for anyone to be perfect. What I've looked for throughout life is the people that try the hardest. That doesn't mean they're the most successful! But as long as someone honestly tries to do what's right, then that's all I can ask (NOT demand!).

I came to this post also wanting to find answers about what happened with Vino. After writing this, I'm reminded that it really doesn't matter. It disturbs me that such drastic action was taken to erase the existence of this person, but on the other hand, these written words have perfect, long-term recall. Our minds don't. We tend to forgive and forget. ...Or at least forget! Anyway, I no longer have the desire (or the need) to continue reading this thread or trying to find out the tabloid-like details.

My thanks to OWK and DeepSeeker (sorry, that's as far as I got :-P ) for your posts. I hope that my words can also bring comfort, closure, or understanding to others out there who have been rattled by this incident.

By the way, what is a banner anyhow??

 

[Dave Rishar]

Steve,

I do admin on another forum and what goes on in the background stays in the background......it's just the right thing to do not to divulge confidential info relating to any individual members.

Heck it could even involved liability issues if that confidentiality were broken by those in charge.....I believe that's in the rules regarding the forum hosting sites, another example is pm's I don't have access to fellow members pm's the hosting site wouldn't allow it anyway, again a legality issue.

Is there a legal reason for not maintaining a roster of usernames (no personally identifiable information) of rule breakers and what rules they broke, to include the offending posts? I only ask because this very thing is done elsewhere, specifically to avoid the kind of speculation that results when a person and their posts are "disappeared" from here. Some of these other places have done so for well over a decade, and some of them are quite large.

I can certainly understand pulling a post in a family-friendly forum that's deemed offensive, but what if it isn't offensive, yet still breaks the ToS? Must it be hidden?

 

[SusanMN]

Some people lie because they want attention, some lie because they enjoy fooling people and some people just sort of slide into a lie. That's people, that human nature . No sense thinking about, stressing over it or figuring out how to catch someone in the act. Tnet had great mods, reasonable rules, and for the most part members with good b.s.meters, so I say let's move on.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

It is the way TNet does it and has done it for the 10 years I have been here.

Bans are not open for debate or discussion per our rules. If someone is banned for good it is for a flagrant rule violation or multiple rule violations after multiple warnings, permanent bans are not issued for simple rule violations...A member has to really break the rules or be a constant rule breaker to earn a permanent ban.

The list would be extremely long if we kept a public list of banned members..

 

[Msbeepbeep]

yes Ma'am?

You qualify as Banner!
Rare, unusual, exceptional, & unique! Congrats!

 

[flyadive]

It is the way TNet does it and has done it for the 10 years I have been here.

Bans are not open for debate or discussion per our rules. If someone is banned for good it is for a flagrant rule violation or multiple rule violations after multiple warnings, permanent bans are not issued for simple rule violations...A member has to really break the rules or be a constant rule breaker to earn a permanent

The list would be extremely long if we kept a public list of banned members..

I've learned that someone can be Banned but can still join TNET again as a new member using another username.
"Sock puppets"
I'm also Leary/concerned about that persons friends here on TNET whom he's been in cahoots !

 

[bill from lachine]

DR,

A similar question came up on the site I'm involved with....our short answer was since we weren't a governing body we were not in a position to act as judge and jury when members didn't follow the proper ethics/etiquette of detecting nor did we have the resources to do so...hope this explains the logic a bit better.

Regards + HH

Bill

Is there a legal reason for not maintaining a roster of usernames (no personally identifiable information) of rule breakers and what rules they broke, to include the offending posts? I only ask because this very thing is done elsewhere, specifically to avoid the kind of speculation that results when a person and their posts are "disappeared" from here. Some of these other places have done so for well over a decade, and some of them are quite large.

I can certainly understand pulling a post in a family-friendly forum that's deemed offensive, but what if it isn't offensive, yet still breaks the ToS? Must it be hidden?

 

[BigWaveDave]

What pisses me off is all the the times I posted, "great finds Vino, you the man"
No...You didn't get duped... We did.
Shame on you.

 

[Dave Rishar]

DR,

A similar question came up on the site I'm involved with....our short answer was since we weren't a governing body we were not in a position to act as judge and jury when members didn't follow the proper ethics/etiquette of detecting nor did we have the resources to do so...hope this explains the logic a bit better.

Is this site privately hosted or is the host paid? If so, what did their legal department say? And if they offered an opinion, did they offer another one about deleted posts?

 

[TheHunterGT]

My thoughts after 4 pages of reading.....

1. If you do not like the banner section and do not like showing off your finds....just move along. Seems so very simple. It is like the guys who complain about "videos" because they prefer pictures and stories. Just move along instead of posting petty nonsense like "I don't like videos" or "I don't vote for banners". If you do not like something...do not participate. Seems more egotistical to say you do NOT like something than to just shut up and move along. This is a content based forum where content (of all forms) rule the day.

2. I admined a mushroom forum with 20K+ members...and a electronics forum with 100K members. Never did we keep a list of "why" somebody got banned. We simply banned or deleted the account. Depends on the forum software and how we had it setup if the banned user posts stayed or were deleted. IPBoard will actually keep all IPs and banned names in a database...SMF will just delete it all...posts and everything.

I've seen some forums keep banned members content....and I can understand that since some of the posts were stickies and had great info. Other times 99% of the content was troll crap...which is why said member was banned. So no great loss there. In this case where many of the "finds" could now be questioned further....I think wiping the account and posts/pictures is the right call.

I can remember most big name bans even to this day...what they did to get banned etc etc. I am guessing the mods and admins will still remember Vino and the reasoning behind it in 5-10 years.

3. I like the banner system and absolutely think it should stay the way it is. If you get enough votes....you get banner. Seems legit. Human nature can be evil at times and certain nefarious types will try to manipulate ANY system you place in front of them. There is no reason to punish the people who use it correctly and are not trying to cheat anybody.

Recognition and acceptance from your peers is something to be proud of....not something you should be derided for and called egotistical. As always...just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt....I am one of those Youtube video jerks who will relish his first banner find as a proud accomplishment. To each their own.

 

[TheHunterGT]

I like it HunterGT...

the ONLY thing I'd add to the post... ok, two things...
1) In your first part on the Videos. I think it's helpful for people to know that folks also like photos of finds, not just videos. More than once I've seen an OP openly wonder why no one is commenting on their video link. I also thinks folks should properly embed the video link using the button (not just pasting a link). I'm far more likely to watch a video IN the forum, than click a link. It's just good internet browsing safety.

2) Mushroom forum... OH DO TELL. LOL

Skippy

Roger that and I agree 100%. I think ALL forms of content are awesome. Can you imagine me going into a picture or story thread and saying "I only watch videos"...LOL...it would be bonkers and I would deserve any backlash.

For me personally....I always make sure to embed the video and also leave a link just in case the embed does not work. Some browsers and setups don't play nice with embedded videos....so I try to cover both bases. As far as complaining about not getting video hits....that deserves a ban or a warning. I am here to share my finds with others...in video form most cases. If X member does not want to watch and I get 0 hits....so be it. Just be polite and don't tell me you don't care for it....because others do enjoy video content. Have not had a 0 hit video yet...and probably never will. Because ALL content is awesome....videos...pictures...words. This forum is big enough for all of us.


As far as the mushroom forum...pretty sure I like not being banned here.

 

[rivets]

It is the nature of the soul to manipulate ... all things become of gain due to the sense of lack ...

 

[beerguy]

I am a little surprised by this event, I kind of had to piece it together to understand it..

I had a hunting partner several years ago that started coming up with 'finds'... really shiny, old ones.

It is sad, this hobby has so much to offer if you put in the work.

But I am also sad because those that fake finds miss out on the rush of actually finding great things.

A few weeks ago I found a really nice wedding band. I was beside myself.

Last night I found what looked to be a 7-diamond ring! I couldn't believe it!

Until I looked closer and there was pitting on the plating. Totally costume jewelry.

This thread got me thinking that maybe the near-misses just make the real finds much more sweet.

But a faker will not enjoy that part of the hobby.

I feel sad for them...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please remember TreasureNet's rules on no posting of religion except for in the Politics Forum found under Charter Members Forum........