CW camp question.

[corklabus]

Having pinpointed the location of headquarters and water sourses, how much surrounding area would it require to camp 3,000 or more men at one time ? I'm thinking at least 1/2 mile circumference. How wrong am I ?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[Shortstack]

I'd think it would be more like 1/2 mile radius.

 

[corklabus]

Don't see much difference in this instance. If camp was a complete circle around headquarters................but then if it were only a two or three sided setup...........just a matter of terms I suppose........depends on topography ?
What if camp were in a linear form along the water source ? Stupid minds want to know.

 

[Shortstack]

What I meant by the 1/2 mile radius instead of 1/2 mile circumference is that the area of a circle with a 1/2 mile circumference would be a very, very, very, small area. The size of the area within a circle with a 1/2 mile radius would be large enough (maybe) for 3,000 men. Using the headquarters as the center point, striking a circle with the radius of 1/2 mile would give you a very large piece of ground. The men of the unit would not have to pitch their tents along side of the creek / river. Camps were set up to be near water sources, but far enough back from the watering hole / creek so as not to pollute the water with human activity or animal byproducts. Details of men would be sent to refill canteens, buckets, etc. If everyone ran down on their own to get drinking / cooking water, they'd be stirring up sediment and trash and generally screwing themselves. That would not be good military discipline.

I don't consider your question as one coming from a "stupid mind". Just someone interested in accuracy. If you look at another thread I posted in this topic area, you'll find reference to an excellent CD that provides some serious information on CW campsites and how to find them and plot them. It's an incredible reference source.

 

[corklabus]

I think my mind was thinking exactly what you managed to describe. I just had my terms reversed. After all it's been about 35 years since i attended math class.
My water source would be at the bottom of a "V" shaper "dip" with the mountain top ridge toward the left side. The right side not being nearly as steep. Headquarters would have been on the left slope about 1/3 of the way up. The current roadway was probably NOT the roadway at that time, but it's slightly possible that it could have been. I am trying now to determine if the road in front of headquarters was the main road or a side road.
I grew up in the area and have watched it change many times due to underground and surface mining, both of which were done long before reclamation laws were in effect. Basically this area is a highly disturbed mess in that respect. However, on a clock, from about 9:00 to 12:00 it hasn't been messed with in any great detail other than a few long standing homesteads.
I'm thinking this area was probably highly trafficed at any rate because of being the predominant defensive direction. From 12:00 to 5:00 was not nearly so steep and may well have been used for camping but nearly totally destroyed by mining activity. The creek at 6:00 is now parallelled by a roadway. Across the creek and road was also quite habitable, but has also been extremely disturbed by mining. All areas were also timbered and now re-grown to fair size forest, but are quite foot traffic accessable.
So you can see why I have a need to be HIGHLY accurate in my research even though I am familiar with the lay of the land over the years, I most certainly want to avoid researching every mining activity in the area if I can help it.
I DID happen to read your other post on the subject. In fact I thought it was quite informative and copied it and the post above it into my research folder. So I owe you a belated Thank You at least

 

[Shortstack]

I'm always happy to hear if one of my posts helps someone. Every once in a while, I stumble onto some useful info.
As to your site. Obviously, surface mining has removed any relic hunting prospects from quite a bit of your sites land area. It sounds like the headquarters site was placed on or near what is referred to as the Military Ridge. The military, when on the move, stayed off of the highest ridgelines to avoid being skylined to the enemy. They would travel just below the actual top of any ridge. UNLESS, the terrain made it absolutely necessary to move on the highest points. For camping, the same idea would be followed, plus, being low on the hillside helped to stay out of the winds.

If you are confident that you've located the headquarters site, start there and work outward in spiralling track. Don't worry about doing in depth MDing now. What you'll be looking for is patterns. Also, you'll be watching for any trenching and CW huts dug into the hill side. Tracing along the top of the ridge on the hunt for lookout / guard posts would be a good idea, too. Personally, I would not waste my time searching the mined areas. Those mining companies scrape off everything. If you can get down to the water course (safely), look for places that provided easy access to the water. In trench-like terrain, there were most likely good places and bad places to gather water. The privates put on water detail would have used the waaaaay easiest route to the water. (been there; done that) Look for goodies at those spots. Depending on how long the camp was there, any camp trash they could not bury easily in their immediate area was most likely carried up and over the ridgeline to be buried for sanitation purposes because throwing trash into the creek / river would have been really stupid. If at all possible, it might be a good idea for you to walk the area of the headquarters (while the snakes are still in their dens) without you detector and simply LOOK at the area in search of disturbed ground resulting from those dugouts and trenches. A very good idea would be to carry a good camera--digital if possible-- and take as many photos as you can of the area and the "lay of the land". Then study the pics at home on your computer. Karl Von Muller wrote in one of his books that a camera sees everything that the naked eye misses. In other words, when studying good photos it is not unusual to spot details that you overlooked while eyeballing the same scene.

It is very possible that the road you mentioned does follow the CW era road. In rough country, road builders usually took the easiest routes. At least back then.

Again, that CD, Exploring Civil War Campsites by Dave Poche and Wayne Rex would really help you decipher and evaluate your site. And, no I'm neither one of these guys and I'm not getting any pay for advertising the CD. Whenever I find some really useful info sources, I spread the word as much a possible. Those 2 guys put together a book / CD that is worthy of at least a Masters Theses (misspelled)

 

[ivan salis]

the lay of the land has alot to do with the camps lay out -- as does number and types of troops -- mainly foot? --mainly calvary ?-- any artillery? with trenches (a more permant type camp ) or without ? --- camping was normally done on the higher ground in the area to prevent the tents flooding in case of rain -- horses were normally kept away from the river area where water was drawn to prevent the messing up the camps water supply and they were watered "down stream" of the camp's water getting area on the river --

 

[corklabus]

Shortstack and Ivan both making a lot of good common sense. I may be describing the area as more of a deep "v" than it actually is. The bottom portion being at least 1/4 mile wide and spread off to the right side with nice "hideaway" type areas that were fouled by the miners. This side valley actually forms sort of a ditch like depression that follows the left ridge clear to the peak and could have been great camp cover. / l_____ sorta like that.
I do have a good idea where the mining pushed the original topsoils, but I doubt it would be worth much effort to check it.

The camp was used for quite a while. Twice by Union troops and at least once by the Confederates. A person would think there would be so much stuff there that it would just jump right in your pocket as you walked by.

This site to me is merely my easiest choice to research and actually the farthest point from home that I intend to work on. I'm learning fast because I know the area fairly well. On the other end there is another camp equally distant from home, but is well documented and protected and even though I have to research it to understand the history, it basically just tells me that eveything between these two camps is pure gold to me because the troop movements all had to go right through my front yard to get from one to the other. Very little between the two camps is government protected and just private property. I always try to play well with my neighbors, so I pretty well know everybody between both camps.

I'm gonna check out that CD soon. I wouldn't care who owned the company as long as it's good material........and it sounds well worth it.

Now one of these days I'm gonna get off my butt and go buy me a digital camera and a detector................and never be seen again....

 

[Shortstack]

Whoa. Sounds like you have a great prospect for finding CW relics. All detector manufacturers suggest that when you buy your first machine, search your own yard. Well, apparently in your case, that would be an extra good suggestion. Wheather or not you were speaking literally about the troop movements going through your front yard, wouldn't be too important. Routes of troop movements THAT close to your home would be significant. You never know--there could have been a temporary camp within walking distant to your front door. That CD gives guidelines on what and where to look for temporary camps as well as long term posts. It gives pictures illustrating the layouts of different types of camps. With your good relations with your neighbors, you very possibly have enough sites to search that will keep you busy for a very long time.

If you can find out the names of any commanding officers associated with at least one of those 2 encampments, you should check the ORs for any field reports submitted by those guys. After all, a commander of a long term camp would HAVE to send in regular reports on his activities.

Good luck.

 

[corklabus]

They literally passed smack through the property as far as I can tell at this point. We have movements and encampments and probably outposts and pickets probably all over the general area. Even if all these things occurred within 1/2 mile either side of the current roadway. it certainly provides simple and inexpensive access. Although I'm sure it has to have been hunted in some fashion over the years, I'm sure that it was mostly just the major well known areas that got "picked over". Generals in question of these movements were Rosecrance, Floyd, Wise, Loring and quite a large number of troops traveling BOTH directions at least twice. And good old Robert E. Lee had his nose sniffing around the area too. The major camps and headquarters were used at least twice by BOTH sides and who could possibly know how many minor accessory posts could exist because of it. Yet VERY little information seems to exist specifically without studying practically every movement they made while they were here. The research has been quite fun and still continues daily, but it sure does increase "the itch". From what I've learned so far, it's just hard to understand why this portion of WV history hasn't been emphasized more than it is since it was such an important part of maintaining control of the Kanahwa Valley.

 

[Shortstack]

Check out these sites in your research efforts.

(1) Civil War Web Rings--- http://homepages.dsu.edu/jankej/civilwar/rings.htm

(2) http://www.civilwarhome.com/cwinfo.htm#facts
scroll down to West Virginia and find the several links there.

(3) The Index to Civil War Information Available on the Internet.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/indexcivilwarinfo.htm

Checking out all of these links and sites will keep you busy for a long time. Something to do on those cold winter days left for this year.
Have fun.

 

[corklabus]

Thanks for the links. I've been narrowing things down to my area pretty well ever since I found this site. I check every link I'm given and research every possible connection I can dream up. So far it seems to be working well, but
i've saved so much stuff my computer is about ready to puke. And the Libraries are snickering at the old fart that borrows twenty odd books at a time, but who cares ? At least I'm learning something and been enjoying it. I've always been a bookworm anyway so even if I never find the first piece of junk, I don't figure I've lost anything. I'd rather read than eat sometimes.......especially on those DIY dinner days.

 

[Shortstack]

As you'll notice, on my last post, item #2 has specific links for West Virginia. Also, here is a site with links specific for Kanawha County dealing in the area of genealogy research. Add it to your list.

Kanawha County, West Virginia http://resources.rootsweb.com/USA/WV/Kanawha/

If you're loading up your 'puter, save a lot of the collected info onto CDs and / or DVDs. Then, erase the original files on the computer's hard drive. Another possibility would be to get an exterior hard drive and transfer all of your research files onto it and delete the originals on the interior HD. Just some ideas.
Good luck.