CW Eagle Tounge? ID HELP PLEASE

[Recovering Relics]

Hey everyone - I was metal detecting in my front yard today when I found what I believe to be an Eagle Tounge Plate from the Civil War. I am pretty sure this is called a tounge and is from the Civil War, but I'm not positive so any help would be great. If anyone can ID this or give me any info on it I would appreciate it.

I have found heel plates and a sword scabbard in my yard before. I live in a very old area. My neighbor's house was built in 1695.

Thanks!

 

[allen]

good job on that old relic!

 

[CC Hunter]

The buckle piece is indeed the tongue half of a stamped brass patriotic eagle two-piece belt buckle, from the 1850's.

As Kuger kindly addressed, these types of buckles are in fact:
1. 100% pre-Civil War in manufacture and use (although there is carryover to Civil War period sites)
2. Worn on BELTS, including thin leather, cloth, and elastic/rubber
(Through exhaustive research, there has been no reference to these ever being on any type of "sash")
3. Most of this style were worn by men (Although there are smaller ones likely worn by women and children)
4. Not directly military related (Likely sold to the general public through retail outlets in major cities)
5. Popularity tied to the style of clothing in vogue during the Westward Expansion of the 1850's

Furthermore, there are only a few "experts" in the research, use, history, varieties, and background of these particular tongue & wreath buckles. And, the "experts" are for the most part, not readily available for comment on these forums.

This is the most commonly encountered style of stamped brass two-piece tongue & wreath buckle, seen recovered in America. This is not saying these are everyday finds, but rather of all the known varieties, this style is the one seen with greater frequency.

Collectors have dubbed this particular style the "stamped rope border eagle tongue", due to the encircling rope around the perimeter. There are in fact three different styles of wreaths that match this particular buckle, and excavated examples confirm this. The most commonly encountered wreath, is entirely smooth and plain, with no design or markings. Next, is the style with a lined or reeded perimeter. Finally, the rarer style wreath (and that which provides a key clue to one of the companies), is the plain style wreath with a company imprint on the belt loop, of Bondy Brothers & Co..



From further research, we find that Bondy Brothers were advertising as belt manufactures, and operating a retail store in New York City during the 1850's. Although Bondy Brothers were manufacturing the belts, the stamped brass buckles were likely produced for them by a contract supplier. My trail of further research points to a more definite possibility for the manufacturer, utilizing the rolled brass sheeting mills and die stamping works in a specific location. We can draw from these compiled data resources on conclusion, that many of these same stamped rope border eagle tongue & wreath buckles could in fact have also been retailed through other outlets besides Bondy Brothers in New York (hence the other two styles of wreaths with no company markings).

The attached photo shows two complete stamped brass rope border eagle tongue & wreath buckles, with matching slide adjusters, as found. These exhibit the most commonly seen plain style wreaths.

CC Hunter

 

[Tnmountains]

Great research. Still a very nice find in my book.

 

[tuatara]

Can you please show the reference to Bondy Brothers & Co.

 

[CC Hunter]

Tuatara,

I have numerous references and listings in my files on Bondy Brothers & Co., as well as many other dealers of the tongue & wreath buckles.

Here is a brief description of the company:

Joseph & Adolph Bondy, Bondy Brothers & Co., New York City
Addresses: 126 William (1852), 162-163 William (1853-54), 73 William (1856-58)

The brothers originally began their business dealing in liquor in 1849, then by 1851 they were manufacturing belts. By 1852, they expanded into military goods, as well as manufacturers of belts, gloves, and shirts into the early 1860's.

A photo is also attached of one of my own marked Bondy Brothers & Co. wreaths from my personal collection. These marked wreaths are quite rare.

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

Thanks C.C. however I feel you are wasting your breath

 

[CC Hunter]

Kuger, dear dedicated and passionate historian of era's long past, I trust that you will agree that merely one quality find that is hidden amongst a seemingly overwhelming array of aggravating junk is worthy of seeking?

Shall we then not apply comparable thought in knowledge of historical finds, and note that if one little positive point is shared or gained here, that fact outweighs the contrary?

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

Kuger, dear dedicated and passionate historian of era's long past, I trust that you will agree that merely one quality find that is hidden amongst a seemingly overwhelming array of aggravating junk is worthy of seeking?

Shall we then not apply comparable thought in knowledge of historical finds, and note that if one little positive point is shared or gained here, that fact outweighs the contrary?

CC Hunter

Yes,I fully agree CC,however I have been preaching to the quire for too long on here,only to have wrong information linked from "C.W. Experts",and ignored.At least one fellow that posted in this very thread argued with me after I showed him proof before,and told me I didnt know what I was talking about....fair enough.You however have the expertise and the way with words I do not.The only thing that drives me is my passion and care for these particular pieces,one that you know we both share

Hey check this one out
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,353724.0/topicseen.html

 

[tuatara]

It seems that this type of interlocking stamped brass buckles was in the Argentinian Navy as late as WWII so it's a bit far-fetched to date them as pre-CW: http://www.ioffer.com/i/WWII-era-brass-British-Royal-Navy-Anchor-Belt-Buckle-154274680
This buckle can well be relatively modern.
[attach=1

 

[CC Hunter]

It seems that this type of interlocking stamped brass buckles was in the Argentinian Navy as late as WWII so it's a bit far-fetched to date them as pre-CW: http://www.ioffer.com/i/WWII-era-br...l-Navy-Anchor-Belt-Buckle-154274680
This buckle can well be relatively modern.

 

[CRUSADER]

It seems that this type of interlocking stamped brass buckles was in the Argentinian Navy as late as WWII so it's a bit far-fetched to date them as pre-CW: http://www.ioffer.com/i/WWII-era-br...l-Navy-Anchor-Belt-Buckle-154274680
This buckle can well be relatively modern.

 

[kuger]

It seems that this type of interlocking stamped brass buckles was in the Argentinian Navy as late as WWII so it's a bit far-fetched to date them as pre-CW: http://www.ioffer.com/i/WWII-era-brass-British-Royal-Navy-Anchor-Belt-Buckle-154274680
This buckle can well be relatively modern.

 

[CC Hunter]

Mark Twain was just a pen name With only a small amount of googling anyone can tell his real name was 'Samuel Langhorne Clemens'

Crusader,

The trouble with the humor of Englishmen it seems, is that we discover here in America, most is lost in translation.

When I was a young fellow, the only "googling" to be found, were the eyes we made for the cute ladies! In regards to our adventurous and literary friend Sam Clemens, both Kuger and I have spent many years in his very same footsteps!!

Furthermore, I may add for the benefit of clarification regarding the reference that Kuger has made to "leading a horse to water.......", that it seems we are dealing with the more stubborn cousin of the fleet-footed equine! Additionally, as most anyone who has been given the job of cleaning a barn well knows, these that we speak of, may make a loud vocalization on occasion, yet for the most part we are found shoveling the results for hours at a time.

CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

Mark Twain was just a pen name With only a small amount of googling anyone can tell his real name was 'Samuel Langhorne Clemens'

Crusader,

The trouble with the humor of Englishmen it seems, is that we discover here in America, most is lost in translation.

When I was a young fellow, the only "googling" to be found, were the eyes we made for the cute ladies! In regards to our adventurous and literary friend Sam Clemens, both Kuger and I have spent many years in his very same footsteps!!

Furthermore, I may add for the benefit of clarification regarding the reference that Kuger has made to "leading a horse to water.......", that it seems we are dealing with the more stubborn cousin of the fleet-footed equine! Additionally, as most anyone who has been given the job of cleaning a barn well knows, these that we speak of, may make a loud vocalization on occasion, yet for the most part we are found shoveling the results for hours at a time.

CC Hunter

As usual CC,you not only have a vast knowledge of relics and history,you have a special talent with words!!Very educated and eloquent.
Yes,I pass by Twains cabin everyday

 

[CRUSADER]

Mark Twain was just a pen name With only a small amount of googling anyone can tell his real name was 'Samuel Langhorne Clemens'

Crusader,

The trouble with the humor of Englishmen it seems, is that we discover here in America, most is lost in translation.

CC Hunter

Your right, as its spelt humour

Serously my humours lost on most Englishmen, you have no chance

 

[CC Hunter]

Your right, as its spelt humour

Serously my humours lost on most Englishmen, you have no chance

Spelt humour? What does an ancient grain have to do with comedic expression in Great Britain?



CC Hunter

 

[kuger]

So Tuatara,please enlighten me how one would precisely date an object from the fact it has an Eagle on it?? We know %100 the exact age

 

[flintlock]

Yes, these "WWII Argentinian Navy" buckles were cheap looking when I dug them up and those pesky little eagle buttons with a D on the shield looked odd as well and threw those away! Sorry, I couldn't pass this discussion up. How ya doin kuger and CC Hunter? It's been awhile.

 

[kuger]

Yes, these "WWII Argentinian Navy" buckles were cheap looking when I dug them up and those pesky little eagle buttons with a D on the shield looked odd as well and threw those away! Sorry, I couldn't pass this discussion up. How ya doin kuger and CC Hunter? It's been awhile.

Heya Flintlock,how are you doin bud!!!Those buttons you find with a "A",must stand for "Argentina"!!

 

[flintlock]

Yes, these "WWII Argentinian Navy" buckles were cheap looking when I dug them up and those pesky little eagle buttons with a D on the shield looked odd as well and threw those away! Sorry, I couldn't pass this discussion up. How ya doin kuger and CC Hunter? It's been awhile.

Heya Flintlock,how are you doin bud!!!Those buttons you find with a "A",must stand for "Argentina"!!

Yeah, that's what those "experts" have told me! he he he!!!