CZ-21 Vs Minelab Excalibur II

[TheFalseProphet]

Good day,

My first post to this form as well as first post regarding Metal Detecting in general.

I currently own no metal detecting equipment and I'm not looking to spend a bunch of money in the hopes of getting rich but rather a peaceful hobby where I can go out and get some fresh air and some exercise and in the hopes of finding the odd treasure ( by treasure I mean anything of value that and at the same time cleaning up public beaches and waterways from litter ).

So I've done a BUNCH of reading and watching of videos and I've come to the conclusion that I'll be doing saltwater beaches and eventually get my diving certificate and graduate to salt water diving and in order to do this i'll need the right gear...

Minelab Excalibur II is the talk of the internet however they've had a rather poor history of quality control and poor customer service ( last thing I want to do is invest 2k into gear that knobs will break or strip or leak or cables rot away )

Fisher CZ-21... The thing is built like a tank ( at least my first impressions ) and looks suitable for underwater exploring, I've seen no horror stories from users regarding QC or customer service.


I'm new to this so I'm asking for your professional opinion on the pros and cons of the Excalibur II and the CZ-21.

Thank you all and happy hunting !.

 

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[CASPER-2]

I VERY MUCH LIKED YOUR POST - GIVING BOTH SIDES OF THE COIN
MOST GUYS JUST SHOOT THE CZs DOWN (FROM GUYS THAT I MET THAT HAD CZs YRS AGO - THEY DID NOT USE THEM PROPERLY AND REASON THEY DID NOT DO GOOD WITH IT)
IM AN CZ21 USER AND HAVE HUNTED WITH MANY EXCAL USERS - VETS - AND I OUT SHOOT THEM USUALLY 9 TIMES OUT OF 10
BUT I USE MINE IN ALL METAL - AND USE A MASK AND LARGE SCOOP - SO THAT HELPS ME RECOVER FASTER THAN MOST TOO
I HUNT A LOT OF "OLD HUNTED OUT SPOTS" THAT WERE PEPPERED YRS AGO BY EXCAL USERS AND THEY ALL THOUGHT THEY WERE "CLEANED OUT"
ONCE AGAIN USING MINE IN ALL METAL - I BELIEVE I GET MORE DEPTH THAN THESE GUYS - ESPECIALLY SOME THAT CRANK THEIR DISCRIM. IN AREAS THAT THEY DONT HAVE TO - SO KUDOS TO YOUR ASSESSMENTS
https://www.flickr.com/photos/casper-1/ - JUST A SAMPLE OF STUFF FOUND WITH CZ21 OVER LAST 10YRS (OLDER WATER FINDS - P IPRO)

Excal vs CZ:

As you can see below, this is a ford vs chevy thing. There is no right answer. There are guys that are die hard for one or the other. Both machines are high end for VLF detectors. You are trying to split hairs. Pick one and be done with it.

Depth:

I have seen tests where the CZ was deeper and tests where the Excal was deeper. I have seen tests where a standard CZ beats a heavily modded Excal and tests where a heavily modded excal beats a CZ. It seems like this depends on how well you know the detector, if its 'hot', and know how to get it to its max depth. Overall they are both probably equal. Here are links to a few depth tests:

Test Results Data photo added - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
AT Pro - CZ21 - Minelab Excalibur..W/Doc's Treasure Amp - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
CZ 21 Vs Excal 1000 air test - Friendly Metal Detecting Forums
Tom... question concerning CZ6a/CZ3d vs. Sovereign GT...

And if you are concerned about air depth tests read this post. The general conclusion is that a machine that doesn't air test well won't ground test any better vs a machine that does air test well: buried hoard test | how deep will metal detectors go

Do you want an automatic ground balancing unit ( Excal) or a manual gb unit ( CZ) ?

Automatic is nice because you don’t need to ground balance when switching from water to wetsand to dry sand. This is why many people prefer the automatic on the excal. But being able to ground balance can give you extra sensitivity which can translate to extra depth, which is why people prefer the ground balance on the CZ.

Do you like DD coils ( Excal) or concentric coils (CZ) ?

Perks of the CC:. If the mineralization isn't bad enough to where the DD might come into it's own depth and stability wise, then the concentric in theory should have slightly more depth right at the very center of the coil, and at that fringe edge of the field it should in theory also have excellent separation from any angle, where as a DD will have it's best at only certain angles. Contrast that though with a DD tending to have better left/right separation over more of it's vertical span into the ground.

Perks of a DD: Better stability/depth in mineralization after a certain point, better left/right separation, better coverage length wise at depth, though as said a concentric can have better depth at the very tight center of it if both coils are the same size.

Multiple tones ( Excal) or 3 tones ( CZ ).

The 3 tons CZ is probably easier for a beginner to pick up and go but the Excal tones can tell you a lot about the target once you get to know them.
Silent search (CZ) vs threshold (Excal)

The CZ will be silent until you hear a target. The Excal will emit a tiny buzz (almost like a mosquito) constantly until you hear a target.

Do you want the unit to null on iron in discriminate mode ( Excal) or do you want to hear iron ( CZ) ?

The excel will just be silent (null) when you go over iron. On the CZ you will hear the iron.

How do they perform in an iron infested area?

Some people prefer the excal so they don’t have to hear the iron and other like the CZ because they can hear the iron. The CZ has been known to false on rusted iron (like rusty nails). It is said this can be overcome by going over the target a few times and it should correct itself. The Excal takes longer to process iron so you will need to go slow so you do not miss good targets.

Tones on deep targets?

As the target gets deeper, discrimination begins to falter and cannot be relied upon. If the target is deep, one should dig regardless of tone. This goes for both machines. That means that as you get deeper the machine becomes less reliable. Thus you dig all deep targets on both machines.

Can they dig tiny gold?

The general belief is that multi freq machines are not very good on small gold compared to other detectors out there because they are locked in salt mode, which translates to masking out small gold. However no detector is really great on chains/earrings. That said you can still find small rings/earrings but I have seen videos of someone going over a gold chain with both machines and the machine not even making a peep. Neither of these machines is great on small gold. The technology isn't there yet. Here is a link where I asked about a machine on the beach that detects small gold: Are we any closer to a beach machine that detects small gold?

Check out this other link to read about the technology of these machines and how they detect gold. This post starts out about the CZ but discusses the excal and sovereign as well. And what they say applies to all 3 machines. - CZ owners - Salt training 101

Warranty

1 yr (excal) vs 2 yr (CZ)

Customer Service

CZ probably has overall better customer service. Now that kellyco fixes minelabs this may be pretty equal though.

Costs

Each is $1500. However the excal usually requires a straight shaft ($30-$120) and new knobs ($30) out of the box. So if you go excal expect to pay more $$$ right away. The CZ is ready out of the box. Also, be sure to contact the dealers they will offer discounts on these machines just for calling/emailing.

Modifications

CZ cannot be modded. Excal can be modded like crazy but its not recommended while under warranty. The mods can add a lot of functionality. If you like to 'tinker' with your toys then the excal is probably for you. If you do not want to mess with it get the cz.

Ruggedness

The CZ is known for being built like a tank. The Excal is known for being more fragile. However both should be taken care of and rinsed after salt water use. Taking care of each should make each last for years.

Battery

Excal includes a rechargeable battery that lasts about 15 hours. CZ requires 4 9 volt batteries which last about 40-60 hours.

Mounting

Each can be mounted. The CZ comes with a belt mount. Many people mount each on their belt/chest. I also see people just use both on the shaft. I use the CZ on the shaft and I have a friend that uses the excal on an Anderson shaft. There is a new mount on feebay for the cz21 for $16 that allows me to swing it all day long on the shaft.

 

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[CASPER-2]

IVE TOLD FISHER - CHANGE THE "BIG GOLD BUTTON" FROM A PINPOINT TO A DISCRIM. MODE BUTTON = SO YOU RUN IN ALL MEATL AND THEN PRESH TO SWITCH TO SILENT MODE TO CHECK AND THEY'D HAVE SOMETHING - I CLICK OVER TO ZERO AND CHECK AND CLICK BACK - IVE GOT IT DOWN TO A SCIENCE BUT OTHERS HAVE TROUBLE DOING THIS - IT WORKS FOR ME - BUT WOULD BE GREAT TO JUST PUSH A BUTTON

If they could make a waterproof version of Whites TDI Pro, we would be really close. Next start figuring out how to discriminate iron with a PI and we have it. That machine had the options to tune it to small gold and the power to do it and now its discontinued. From everything I have read it sounds like people have worked on this exact project and then gotten sidetracked, pulled onto other things, switched jobs, etc. But my understanding is that they were close with a number of different machines.

Or as you guys mentioned it might be another technology all together. I am not sure we will see it with VLF technology though.



Definitely.