CZ-21

[arizonaames]

I bought a used CZ-21 from Grant Hansen this week and Grant was an excellent seller and member of this board. I also was impressed with the detector. It has a 10.5 inch coil and I was concerned that with the larger coil, I would lose sensitivity. That is not the case. Ground balancing was no different than ground balancing a gold detector by pumping and I was amazed at the similarity to a Whites TDI even though the CZ-21 is a VLF machine and the TDI is a PI machine. Discrimination is as good as the TDI was in being able to work a very dirty beach area with lots of nails, pulltabs, bottle caps and assorted metal junk in pieces. Like the TDI, I was able to dial out that junk. I was able to set the disc at 4 and just find coins. Pinpointing was better than excellent. It pinpoints every bit as good as the MXT with the round mono coil. I have not tested the depth as yet and will probably do that today at some time. I will say that the air test was on a par with the TDI and MXT but I think all air tests for all detectors will be similar due to the insulation of air. The build quality compared to the Whites is excellent and, again, I am impressed with the quality of the detector.....jim
BTW I was able to chest mount it like the TDI.

 

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[dbsmokey]

Thanks for your impressions. Please keep us posted, especially as you do depth testing. It will be interesting to see how it compares to the TDI.

 

[arizonaames]

Dbsmokey,

I just just did a depth test with fresh loam soil on top of a quarter. The best that I could do was a true 10 inches on a quarter. Keep in mind this was fresh, albeit, wet soil and with rain and packing one might get an additional inch or two. The TDi will find a quarter deeper.....12 to 14 inches. However, one cannot dive up to 250 feet with the TDI. In packed wet sand, the CZ-21 should do better but the PI will be the same in that condition. Thus it is possible that the CZ-21 will catch up to the TDI for depth on gold rings and things. I am truly inpressed with the CZ-21....jim

BTW I checked a few .2 to .4 gram nuggets. It did not pick them up at all but it did come close to sounding off on the .4 gramer. Thus sensitivity to small targets are not good and this tells me it will not pick up gold chain unless it is in a dense bunch.

 

[dbsmokey]

Dbsmokey,

I just just did a depth test with fresh loam soil on top of a quarter. The best that I could do was a true 10 inches on a quarter. Keep in mind this was fresh, albeit, wet soil and with rain and packing one might get an additional inch or two. The TDi will find a quarter deeper.....12 to 14 inches. However, one cannot dive up to 250 feet with the TDI. In packed wet sand, the CZ-21 should do better but the PI will be the same in that condition. Thus it is possible that the CZ-21 will catch up to the TDI for depth on gold rings and things. I am truly inpressed with the CZ-21....jim

BTW I checked a few .2 to .4 gram nuggets. It did not pick them up at all but it did come close to sounding off on the .4 gramer. Thus sensitivity to small targets are not good and this tells me it will not pick up gold chain unless it is in a dense bunch.

Very interesting. I'm impressed with the CZ-21 from what you say. Please let me know what you think when you take it for a spin. How is the build quality? Were you worried about buying a used one vs new?

Thanks.

 

[arizonaames]

It is built like a tank. Fisher is not as good for repairs as Whites or one or two others but certainly better than some. Buy from a reputable source and if there is a problem, you can have it repaired by Fisher. I am impressed with the unit and it is better than the Whites Dual Field PI that I had for a short time and sold because there was little to no discrimination and digging pieces of bobby pins were a pain in the butt. The depth is about the same with the CZ 21 as that unit also. It seemed to me that PIs will hit a lot deeper on wire and iron. It uses 4 (four) 9v batteries and that is probably why it packs a punch for depth. The Excaliber ll has a large Li-ion battery for a big punch as well. I took it to the local garbage beach full of nails, bottle caps, pulltabs, pieces of wire everywhere and a place where no one will detect because of the garbage. I found 8 clad coins in less than 5 minutes and did not scoop one piece of garbage. I had the discrimination setting set to 4. I also found, with one penny in the scoop, about a one carat zirconium or diamond with no setting! I will have to take it to a Jeweler to determine what it is. I think it is a zirconium. It does cut glass.

 

[Sandman]

Jim you will find the CZ-21 goes deeper with a disc setting of 1 or even 0 and let the CZ use the tones to help id the target. A setting of zero lets you hear all three tones and if the low tone of iron bothers you, increase it to ONE. I only scoop the Mid and High tones and if I am mainly after gold jewelry I only scoop the Mid tones to save time.

 

[arizonaames]

I had it set to 0 for the depth test on the quarter.

 

[granthansen]

Jim, thanks for sharing and I'm glad you're like the machine! I didn't do as thorough of testing as you did, but I did find some tiny objects deep in the sand and dirt. Now, I don't know what a 2g gold nugget is like (someday maybe) but I didn't find a stud earring (fake) about 10 inches down and a tiny screw that seemed even deeper than that. If what you suggest is true, however, it kills me that I may have missed chains! Ha

I've been loving the 17 inch coil on the CTX 3030 of late, but now I'm going to test some small targets.

 

[lonewolfe]

You'll find quarters far deeper than 10 inches with the cz20/21 - - sometimes you'll find stuff so deep you'll get tired of digging!

I had one (cz20) for 16 yrs and put 1000s of hrs logged use time in with it and a cz21 for 2 yrs

Built like a "tank" is an understatement - I abused mine like you wouldn't believe - threw it in the truck bed, piled junk on top of it - fell on it 4 or 5 times, dropped it 50/60 times, used it to clear scrub-brush out of the way while hiking/detecting, bumped it into rocks/trees, etc. and the list goes on! Try that with ANY other machine out there and see what happens!

after all that time (16 yrs) and all that abuse - the only issue I ever had was that the pinpoint button finally wore out but after that long with one - you don't even need to use "pinpoint" anymore!

Sold it to a buddy here a few yrs ago and he's still using it!

 

[arizonaames]

Tops was 10 inches in the ground on a quarter. I tested it again this am and it would not hit the quarter. 10 was a stretch and it is probably closer to 9 inches. I will leave it there and hope for rain. It has been dry the past week. Perhaps it is too dry now and that is why it had a problem hitting the quarter at 10 inches. I am hoping it will hit deeper in wet sand. I took it to Tawas on Lake Huron this am and it was very sanded in. I found a cut and got 3 pennies. One on top of the sand and another about 7 inches down. If I do not get a clear sharp sound with it, I get no sound at all. There is no faint signal on a target. It is either sharp and clear or no signal. Volume about 7, Disc at 1, Ground at 5 in wet sand, sensitivity at 8-9.

 

[granthansen]

Jim. I memory serves me, at volume 6 and above all tones are the same volume. Go 5 or lower to hear the faintness.

 

[arizonaames]

I will give that a try, Grant. 6 and above there is either a sound that is crystal clear or no sound at all....jim

 

[granthansen]

I will give that a try, Grant. 6 and above there is either a sound that is crystal clear or no sound at all....jim

Yup. Check the manual. I think that's the differentiator.

 

[dbsmokey]

You'll find quarters far deeper than 10 inches with the cz20/21 - - sometimes you'll find stuff so deep you'll get tired of digging!

I had one (cz20) for 16 yrs and put 1000s of hrs logged use time in with it and a cz21 for 2 yrs

Built like a "tank" is an understatement - I abused mine like you wouldn't believe - threw it in the truck bed, piled junk on top of it - fell on it 4 or 5 times, dropped it 50/60 times, used it to clear scrub-brush out of the way while hiking/detecting, bumped it into rocks/trees, etc. and the list goes on! Try that with ANY other machine out there and see what happens!

after all that time (16 yrs) and all that abuse - the only issue I ever had was that the pinpoint button finally wore out but after that long with one - you don't even need to use "pinpoint" anymore!

Sold it to a buddy here a few yrs ago and he's still using it!

Thanks for sharing about its durability! I am finding this topic very informative. I used another very popular brand of water detector for years but finally gave up after struggling with its build quality. I have been chomping at the bit to get another waterproof detector, but hesitant after a couple of bad experiences. It sounds like you put yours through the test and it has held up. That is very nice to know. I might be getting one of these soon. You guys are making it nearly irresistible! Thanks.

 

[arizonaames]

Thanks for sharing about its durability! I am finding this topic very informative. I used another very popular brand of water detector for years but finally gave up after struggling with its build quality. I have been chomping at the bit to get another waterproof detector, but hesitant after a couple of bad experiences. It sounds like you put yours through the test and it has held up. That is very nice to know. I might be getting one of these soon. You guys are making it nearly irresistible! Thanks.

As for durability, there are potential problems. Before I bought the one from Grant, I made a low ball offer on a CZ 21 on ebay. It had an 8 inch coil whereas Grant's had a 10.5 inch coil. The offer was turned down. It was $635. A week after I got the one from Grant, the seller contacted me and said that they needed the money and if I still wanted it at the $635 I could have it. I jumped on it. It came by very slow mail...parcel post. I checked it out. The 8 inch coil was hitting that quarter with an inch or two to spare. In other words, I could hit that buried quarter at 11 to 12 inches versus a borderline 10 with the 10.5 inch coil. Everything worked fine with the detector but the shaft seemed loose and wobbled. I discovered that the plastic that held the handle on was broke on the opposite side of the 2 bolts that held it to the shaft. I called fisher and they are sending me a new handle and foam for the handle for $14 plus $3 shipping. I was surprised that the smaller coil hit deeper than the larger coil. That is a first for me with a VLF unit. Think of a VLF coil as a V with the coil the top of the V versus a PI coil that is like a box going down. I asked 2 techs at Fisher and they assured me that the 10.5 inch coil and detector were optimum at a depth of 9 to 10 inches on a quarter and that was normal depth. Still seems strange that the smaller coil had more depth on this fixed target than the larger coil with the larger V. It probably has some tolerance differences between units due to ICs, coil wire, and other components. Again the pinpointing was excellent.

I checked out the 1 to 5 range for volume. This is where you get normal target depth for hearing....loud to faint. By increasing the volume, those targets will come in load without being able to estimate target depth. However, that target will come in louder and sound the same as a target close to the coil making it easier to hear. You do not increase depth or hearing that deeper target at a lower volume range. It just allows you to estimate better the depth of the target at volume 5 or below.

 

[dbsmokey]

At least it's easily fixable; that's nice. You don't happen to be selling the 8" coiled detector, do you? Thanks!

 

[arizonaames]

At least it's easily fixable; that's nice. You don't happen to be selling the 8" coiled detector, do you? Thanks!

Not anytime soon, dbsmokey. I will be using them in the winter in AL or FL with a new knee.

 

[dbsmokey]

Not anytime soon, dbsmokey. I will be using them in the winter in AL or FL with a new knee.

Can't fault you for that! HH.

 

[arizonaames]

I called Fisher yesterday and talked to two techs. Both stated that the 8 inch coil is deeper on coins than the 10.5 inch coil. I thought this was misinformation based on coil size and the V configuration of a Mono Coil. I was told that I could send in the CZ 21 with the 10.5 inch coil but it would be returned to me without any adjustment and that they "already" thought that it was normal for the 8 inch coil to be deeper at hitting coins. I was referred to Dave Johnson, the engineer. I left a message for him to call me back but that has yet to happen. I want an honest answer as to why a 10.5 inch mono coil will hit a target shallower than a smaller mono coil. I guess that Fisher is not as good a manufacturer for service and support as Whites or other manufactures are. Service is a consideration in buying any detector.

 

[granthansen]

Hey Jim,

Very odd and makes little sense! Anyway, just wanted to makes sure that the detector I sent you is all good and the one you got on eBay had issues?