De Vergulde Draeck

[jeff of pa]

In 1656, the Dutch East India Company ship Vergulde Draeck struck a reef off the coast of what is now Western Australia.

Supposedly Not Found till 1963

However

The Times​

of Shreveport, Louisina​

Fri, Apr 10, 1931 ·Page 3

Had this Article

 

[Crow]

Here is more on he story On 4 October 1655, Vergulde Draeck of the Amsterdam Chamber of the Dutch United East India Company (VOC) set sail from Texel, on what was to be its second and final voyage to Batavia (modern Jakarta) in the East Indies.

The jacht Vergulde Draeck carried a cargo of trade goods worth 106,400 florins, together with eight chests of silver coin worth 78,600 florins, and the crew consisted of 193 men. Following Brouwer’s route, the vessel made use of trade winds before making a northward turn to the East Indies. The vessel was lost on 28 April 1656 on a reef off the coast off Western Australia, north of Yanchep, near Ledge Point. The vessel began to break up immediately and two of the ship’s boats were launched. Subsequently, a boat was dispatched to Batavia to get help. Arriving on 7 June they reported that 75 people of the 193 people on board had reached the shore and the other one of the ship’s boat had been driven ashore and damaged. Several vessels were dispatched to try and find the survivors but no one was found.

When the site was discovered in 1963, it had been looted and damaged. The wreck’s original finders approached the Western Australian Government suggesting that they transfer their rights as finders of the site to the Government on the condition that the site was protected under legislation. ( that was the official stance but reality was more cut throat than that. )

In the 1950s Clive Daw was an agent for the stock firm Goldsborough Mort and purchased bulls for R M B Edwards and Sons who had properties near Moore River. The family homesteads were known as ‘Millbank’ and ‘Woodlands’ . This was the same Edwards family who found ducatons and Mamieta Gins at what became known as the ‘Money Desert’ on the coast north of Moore River in 1931. These coins are believed to be the private property of one of the shipwreck survivors.

The Edwards were happy to share the discovery story with Clive daw and show him some of the coins.

Daw was intrigued by the story and began thinking about the relationship between the coin site and the possible location of the wreck, which was unknown at the time. He visited the coin site in the late 1950s with an old army mine detector and found a corroded bronze clasp which he did not consider was necessarily related to the Vergulde Draeck but kept it as a curious find.

In late 1963 the site was protected by law and the WA Museum’s Department of Maritime Archaeology was called in to assess and excavate the site in 1971. In 1972, the Department conducted its first major excavation. Over several months a very large collection of artefacts was systematically excavated from the site. Finds included beardman jugs, clay tobacco pipes (including a box of complete pipes), bronze and brass utensils, tools, accessories, glass bottles, various armaments, over 8,000 bricks from the Netherlands (presumably used as paying ballast on the ship) and over 8,500 silver coins, mostly Spanish reales.

The 1972 fieldwork was the first major underwater archaeological excavation undertaken in Australia and saw the commencement of a series of major archaeological excavations by the Department in the 1970s and 1980s. Subsequent visits to the site were made in 1981 and 1983.

The objectives in 1981 were to excavate the main wreck site areas that had been left at the end of 1971–72. This proved to be extremely difficult because of the bad weather and limited time.

The 1983 season was a great success due to long periods of unusually calm weather. During the excavation period, on the 19 days when diving took place, a total of 332 diving hours were recorded. Finds included a Southeast Asian smoking pipe (a very unusual find for the mid-17th century), several beardman jugs and an astrolabe.

Crow

 

[enrada]

Here is more on he story On 4 October 1655, Vergulde Draeck of the Amsterdam Chamber of the Dutch United East India Company (VOC) set sail from Texel, on what was to be its second and final voyage to Batavia (modern Jakarta) in the East Indies.

The jacht Vergulde Draeck carried a cargo of trade goods worth 106,400 florins, together with eight chests of silver coin worth 78,600 florins, and the crew consisted of 193 men. Following Brouwer’s route, the vessel made use of trade winds before making a northward turn to the East Indies. The vessel was lost on 28 April 1656 on a reef off the coast off Western Australia, north of Yanchep, near Ledge Point. The vessel began to break up immediately and two of the ship’s boats were launched. Subsequently, a boat was dispatched to Batavia to get help. Arriving on 7 June they reported that 75 people of the 193 people on board had reached the shore and the other one of the ship’s boat had been driven ashore and damaged. Several vessels were dispatched to try and find the survivors but no one was found.

When the site was discovered in 1963, it had been looted and damaged. The wreck’s original finders approached the Western Australian Government suggesting that they transfer their rights as finders of the site to the Government on the condition that the site was protected under legislation. ( that was the official stance but reality was more cut throat than that. )

In the 1950s Clive Daw was an agent for the stock firm Goldsborough Mort and purchased bulls for R M B Edwards and Sons who had properties near Moore River. The family homesteads were known as ‘Millbank’ and ‘Woodlands’ . This was the same Edwards family who found ducatons and Mamieta Gins at what became known as the ‘Money Desert’ on the coast north of Moore River in 1931. These coins are believed to be the private property of one of the shipwreck survivors.

View attachment 2230512
The Edwards were happy to share the discovery story with Clive daw and show him some of the coins.

Daw was intrigued by the story and began thinking about the relationship between the coin site and the possible location of the wreck, which was unknown at the time. He visited the coin site in the late 1950s with an old army mine detector and found a corroded bronze clasp which he did not consider was necessarily related to the Vergulde Draeck but kept it as a curious find.

View attachment 2230513

In late 1963 the site was protected by law and the WA Museum’s Department of Maritime Archaeology was called in to assess and excavate the site in 1971. In 1972, the Department conducted its first major excavation. Over several months a very large collection of artefacts was systematically excavated from the site. Finds included beardman jugs, clay tobacco pipes (including a box of complete pipes), bronze and brass utensils, tools, accessories, glass bottles, various armaments, over 8,000 bricks from the Netherlands (presumably used as paying ballast on the ship) and over 8,500 silver coins, mostly Spanish reales.

View attachment 2230511

The 1972 fieldwork was the first major underwater archaeological excavation undertaken in Australia and saw the commencement of a series of major archaeological excavations by the Department in the 1970s and 1980s. Subsequent visits to the site were made in 1981 and 1983.

View attachment 2230515

The objectives in 1981 were to excavate the main wreck site areas that had been left at the end of 1971–72. This proved to be extremely difficult because of the bad weather and limited time.

View attachment 2230514

The 1983 season was a great success due to long periods of unusually calm weather. During the excavation period, on the 19 days when diving took place, a total of 332 diving hours were recorded. Finds included a Southeast Asian smoking pipe (a very unusual find for the mid-17th century), several beardman jugs and an astrolabe.

Crow

When I see the picture above with 6 coins, I can tell that they didn't come off the GD. They are round and minted and I don't think that happened in 1656 as opposed to all the P of 8 in the following picture. When I lived in Australia Allan Robinson put on a tour and talk about the Gilt Dragon. While in Adelaide he stayed with me for 3 days. He gave me the pick of a bag full of coins from the GD. He was arrested later in Sydney and decided to commit suicide while in jail. When I see the word looted I know that the article was written by an Archie. A picture of the GD coin I chose.

 

[Crow]

When I see the picture above with 6 coins, I can tell that they didn't come off the GD. They are round and minted and I don't think that happened in 1656 as opposed to all the P of 8 in the following picture. When I lived in Australia Allan Robinson put on a tour and talk about the Gilt Dragon. While in Adelaide he stayed with me for 3 days. He gave me the pick of a bag full of coins from the GD. He was arrested later in Sydney and decided to commit suicide while in jail. When I see the word looted I know that the article was written by an Archie. A picture of the GD coin I chose.View attachment 2231556

The Australian government and archeologists hounded Allan Robinson to the point he took his own life. They had blood on their hands.

He is not the only ones that had been persecuted by the Australian government. there are two separate laws that cover shipwrecks in Australian territory federal commonwealth laws and state laws.

Michael Hatcher a British explorer and marine salvor Michael Hatcher found the He is especially known for his recovery of large quantities of Chinese porcelain from the VOC ship Geldermalsen (known as the "Nanking cargo") which was sold at auction by Christie's in Amsterdam in 1986.

In 1999, he discovered the Tek Sing shipwreck and retrieved 360,000 pieces of porcelain, most of it in impeccable condition, making this the greatest porcelain treasure that has ever been recovered. He retired to the gold coast in Australia.

This is an example how corrupt governments can be. Both shipwrecks was signed agreement with previous Indonesian government.

With the change of government The new Indonesian government tried to stop the sale of the recovered Tek Sing cargo, while seven containers of it were seized by Australian authorities pursuant to their Protection of Movable Cultural Heritage Act 1986 as the Indonesian government had confirmed that they had been illegally exported from its territory.

This confirmation came too late for much of the cargo however, and it was able to continue its journey and be sold at auction in Germany. On 12 September 2001, the 71 939 seized ceramics were returned by Australia to Indonesia after raiding his home.

I know of a case where two divers discovered 11 gold bars near the shipwreck Dunbar near Sydney. There was amnesty for people to hand in finds. They was handed in and they was still prosecuted. The state gave amnesty but the federal government could still prosecute.

The 11 bars of gold has never seen the light of day. So no Australia is not friendly to treasure hunters.

The shipwreck of HMS Pandora (1779) was found by Ben Cropp and Steve Domm. The powers to be muscled in and down played their efforts in discovery.

That is why you have to hide behind smoke and mirrors become a phantom, a thorn in their side. They have been trying to bust me for years and they have not succeeded yet.

Last visit I have from them was in 2021 about a shipment of gold. They tried strong arm tactics of threatening to seizes ones assets under the pretense it might be proceeds of crime. I have a multitude of investments of property. mining, gold shares that have been moved about so much it is now too hard to trace their origin.

But its a timely reminder to where ever you are in the world governments cannot be trusted even with signed commercial agreements.

Crow

 

[Darren in NC]

But its a time reminder to where ever you are in the world governments cannot be trusted even with signed commercial agreements.

Agreed, Crow. But we're in a catch-22. Any significant wreck cannot be salvaged without the locals reporting you, or the coastal authorities checking you for drug trafficking. If you happen to come across a few coins, fine. But if you're putting together a serious project, it's next to impossible to do so without a permit. Your investors MUST know this dilemma in advance (we warn ours profusely to reconsider). If they're still willing to risk it, then it's game on.

 

[Crow]

Agreed, Crow. But we're in a catch-22. Any significant wreck cannot be salvaged without the locals reporting you, or the coastal authorities checking you for drug trafficking. If you happen to come across a few coins, fine. But if you're putting together a serious project, it's next to impossible to do so without a permit. Your investors MUST know this dilemma in advance (we warn ours profusely to reconsider). If they're still willing to risk it, then it's game on.

I agree with your thoughts 100%. Catch 22 the system they created does not rewards honesty. No matter how much we wrap a project in virtue signaling. There are investors that are good investors. Other that are more trouble than its worth.

Such projects are always high risk.

Crow

 

[Darren in NC]

You are spot on about the system not rewarding honestly. It's all politics and favors now, at the expense of the investors and hard work of the salvage company. Therein is the risk that must be shared with new investors.

I have a funny (and sad) story about worthless investors. I had one who requested to be part of the crew. I told him the only way for that to happen is if he allowed me to treat him like a crew member. He agreed. It turned out that he didn't have good sea legs (among other shortcomings). He almost dropped a scuba tank on one of the other divers while they were out on the water. I called him as soon as I heard, and fired him on the spot. Nothing personal - we just need competent crew members. He couldn't believe it. He didn't speak to me for awhile, but we patched things up, and we're still in contact.

 

[Crow]

At the end of the day commercial salvage is a business. There has to be profit from the effort. Regardless of a treasure land sea historic artifacts. base metals or even mining ventures.

Many treasure hunters are absolute terrible business men. A successful project has to achieve high results in key performance indicators.

1. research has to as best as possible free as of as much assumption as possible. more facts than hypothesis. to prove beyond doubt there is asset worth recovering to beginning with. Understand all legal, political implication and financial. marketing such recovered assets into liquid as assets.

2. Planning such projects take time weaving reserve into a project that has practical research, finance, search, recover, and dispose project. Each stage has to be meretricious planned but also allowing for variables that such arise during such complex projects. Most of all sticking to Budgets and getting the most efficient bang for your buck.

3. Building a team to meet key performance indicators of each stage. Very few people have the entire skill sets needed. Every one has different life experience and skill sets. Matching the right skill sets to right task at hand is crucial to have any chance of success. Making sure what roles each team member has in respect to each stage and keep them on the same page. Is no easy task. But is essential in achieving a successful outcome.

4. Enabling everyone involved in the project to reach the same goal. If one fails it can derail the whole project. That is why it is so important you distinguish between driven people and others there for a free ride. Efforts of people can vary depending of their perceived self worth in the project and their ultimate performance.

5. As a leader overseeing a project there can only be one ultimate decision maker that macro manages and micro manages the project. Its his skill and trust in the expertise of each team member in various role will ultimately play a huge role in the success of an operation. Each team member may not fully understand the roles of other only their role. As a leader of the project you must be able delegate roles and express clearly your expectations on what role has to achieve. There is a clear distinction between key personnel and hired hands.

Many time I had been a team member for one role only and bound by NDA with the corporate or company framework. You like me, we all have different skill sets. to use them to best ability to achieve the best outcomes possible each team members need to know the boundary they are working with in.

Crow

 

[BennyV]

At the end of the day commercial salvage is a business. There has to be profit from the effort. Regardless of a treasure land sea historic artifacts. base metals or even mining ventures.

Many treasure hunters are absolute terrible business men. A successful project has to achieve high results in key performance indicators.

1. research has to as best as possible free as of as much assumption as possible. more facts than hypothesis. to prove beyond doubt there is asset worth recovering to beginning with. Understand all legal, political implication and financial. marketing such recovered assets into liquid as assets.

2. Planning such projects take time weaving reserve into a project that has practical research, finance, search, recover, and dispose project. Each stage has to be meretricious planned but also allowing for variables that such arise during such complex projects. Most of all sticking to Budgets and getting the most efficient bang for your buck.

3. Building a team to meet key performance indicators of each stage. Very few people have the entire skill sets needed. Every one has different life experience and skill sets. Matching the right skill sets to right task at hand is crucial to have any chance of success. Making sure what roles each team member has in respect to each stage and keep them on the same page. Is no easy task. But is essential in achieving a successful outcome.

4. Enabling everyone involved in the project to reach the same goal. If one fails it can derail the whole project. That is why it is so important you distinguish between driven people and others there for a free ride. Efforts of people can vary depending of their perceived self worth in the project and their ultimate performance.

5. As a leader overseeing a project there can only be one ultimate decision maker that macro manages and micro manages the project. Its his skill and trust in the expertise of each team member in various role will ultimately play a huge role in the success of an operation. Each team member may not fully understand the roles of other only their role. As a leader of the project you must be able delegate roles and express clearly your expectations on what role has to achieve. There is a clear distinction between key personnel and hired hands.

Many time I had been a team member for one role only and bound by NDA with the corporate or company framework. You like me, we all have different skill sets. to use them to best ability to achieve the best outcomes possible each team members need to know the boundary they are working with in.

Crow

To me it seems like you need to do it for the love of it, not for solely for the monetary gain. After you have to jump through all the hurdles you mention above you still run the chance of losing your rights to it, if all your i’s are not dotted and all of your t’s crossed.

The odds truly seemed stacked against anyone who tries

 

[Crow]

Everyone who attempts these projects is passionate about what project they are attempting. There is no question about it. Treasurenet is full of passionate people with various treasure related subjects here. If they wasn't they would not be posting.

Over the years there have been many more failed treasure seekers than successful ones. Its not a slur on their passion and dedication but reflection of combination of failures. Poor research, poor planning, poor execution, poor decision making and some times just some bad luck out of their powers to control.

Treasure hunting is not an easy profession to flourish with. You have few people on your side and your efforts are a thankless one on land or sea.

Indeed you are correct BennyV The odds truly seemed stacked against anyone who tries.

But pulling a project off is an unbelievable high beyond words. There is few on treasuenet knows what I am talking about. And it is addictive more than the treasure and any drug itself. So much so when you return to the normal world nothing ever seems the same.

The people around seem contented with their boring predictable mundane lives pushed into a box. When they talk about things in their lives it seems so pointless and insignificant.

As you sit back trying to listen politely having flash backs of people and places and situation all over the globe. Where you risked your life on a razors edge from minute to minute. Living every breath as if its your last. I traveled the world for thirty years being the pariah searching for fortune and glory all over the globe.

And now retired contented wealthy I have young family oblivious to my past life experiences living a normal mundane life again.

I have zero need to chase treasure or even risk my ass again. Why? Because when I started out I had nothing to lose and now I do. Yet once you have tasted the hunger it never really ever leaves you amigo.

There is a few here who know exactly what I am getting at.

Crow