Death Traps??

[Clueman]

No. In this analogy, if the family is running a long con you would be the "mark". The "blow off" would be the person who cools you down after they complete the con so you just move on and don't try to track them down. The "roper" would be the person who got you interested in the first place. The "stall" would be the person who is holding things up now to keep/increase your interest and/or get you to commit more resources. The "inside man" would be the person who set it all up and manages the whole thing. Rockford Files, man! It should be required viewing for everyone.

They must not be in a hurry since this was originally found approximately 28 years ago. I've been trying to get legal there unsuccessfully as have others for the last 20 years. But thanks for the explanation maybe these folks are on a different timetable than your theory would suggest.

 

[MiddenMonster]

They must not be in a hurry since this was originally found approximately 28 years ago. I've been trying to get legal there unsuccessfully as have others for the last 20 years.

I don't think they are running a game. That was more humor than anything. My guess is that they don't believe there is treasure there. That said, anybody who hunts for treasure should be on constant lookout for people trying to take advantage of their dreams of striking it big. The key to any con is making the mark think they are in charge and driving the process by playing to those dreams and greed.

 

[Clueman]

I don't think they are running a game. That was more humor than anything. My guess is that they don't believe there is treasure there. That said, anybody who hunts for treasure should be on constant lookout for people trying to take advantage of their dreams of striking it big. The key to any con is making the mark think they are in charge and driving the process by playing to those dreams and greed

I don't think they are running a game. That was more humor than anything. My guess is that they don't believe there is treasure there. That said, anybody who hunts for treasure should be on constant lookout for people trying to take advantage of their dreams of striking it big. The key to any con is making the mark think they are in charge and driving the process by playing to those dreams and greed.

The owners were looking for treasure based on handed down information. They are the ones who asked my logger friends to come get me and help locate the treasure they were looking for. So obviously there was belief in the Treasure and that is not the reason for stopping me, but I appreciate your thoughts

 

[MiddenMonster]

Here's an interesting article for the Death Trap People. Archaeologists are supposedly afraid to open the tomb of China's first emperor, Qin Shi Huang because of the possibility of booby traps being present. The booby traps are said to be crossbows, aimed to bust a cap in the hiney of anyone who enters the tomb. Do I doubt the existence of crossbows? Not at all. There is a good probability that they were put there as claimed. What I doubt is that they are still functional after 2,200 years, primarily because of the three main components: The trip mechanisms, the bowstrings and the bows themselves.

For starters, what would trip mechanisms have been made of 2,200 years ago? Plant fiber string? Sinew or other body fibers? None of that would have survived, and as soon as it degraded enough the bows would have fired. The same would be true for the bowstrings, which would have been made of the same material. That leaves the crossbows, whih would have been made of either wood or ox horn, though it is remotely conceivable that since it was the Iron Age they could have been made of a flexible steel. So the crossbows might outlast the string parts, but since those are gone, so is any chance of the crossbows working. The arrows themselves may well be intact, albeit lying on the floor somewhere and the only danger being someone could stub their toe on the point of one of them and pick up a deadly infection.

The real danger, as the article mentions is the presence of mercury, which was used to simulate the key rivers in the empire. And tests have confirmed that mercury levels are higher around the tomb area than they should be. But the article also mentions that the mercury rivers were designed to flow by way of some mechanical means. So because the levels are higher around the tomb it indicates to me that the "mechanics" of the flowing mercury rivers have degraded and spread mercury all over the place. So from my perspective, the risk of death might be high, but the risk of death traps is pretty low. A person is more likely to die by having one of the Terracotta Army statues fall on them than by an arrow fired from an ancient crossbow.

Here's the article:

Archaeologists are too scared to open the tomb of China's first emperor because they fear booby traps

And here's a bonus article that takes a closer look at the fact or fiction surrounding the tomb:

The Booby Traps of Qin Shi Huang’s Tomb: Fact, Fiction or Something Even Better?

Conclusion: Indiana Jones would have survived the crossbows, made it to the tomb and looted it, but would have died a horrible death by mercury poisoning shortly afterward. And that raises another question: How much mercury would have been manufactured for these rivers, and how many people died from exposure making it? I'm actually kind of suspicious that any serious quantity of mercury could have been made 2,200 years ago for this purpose, even if Qin Shi Huang reigned for 11 years.

 

[smdog66]

Actually, I would bet my life on it. My concern would be a 10'x10'x2', 40,000lb. door falling on me, not a death trap going off. And as such, I would plan to be at least 20' away and off to the side as I USED A CHAIN TO SIMPLY PULL THE DOOR OVER. Let's be serious here. Even assuming a door like that is set up with a several hundred year old, still functioning death trap, the people who put it there would need a large group of people to a) open it, and b) at least one more to disarm the death trap. All with the materials and equipment available at the time. It's the same thing if I were exploring an old gold mine. I'd be less worried about the Wile E. Coyote trap set up by the crazy old prospector than I am of a mine collapse that could occur because the mine is so old.



So post a picture of one here so we can see what you are talking about. It's the fact that gravity works that undermines the idea of death traps lasting 500 years and still working. Where in the United States is it geologically, biologically and climatologically stable enough for a primitive mechanical device to survive the elements and still remain functional? Florida--the land of endless sinkholes, swamps and tree roots? Colorado--the land of rock slides? Louisiana--the land of swamps, tree roots and flooding? Tree roots destroy rocks as they grow. Snow and ice destroy rocks as they freeze, melt and freeze again. Moisture rots all wood. Rain and wind cause erosion one day, and soil and debris to accumulate the next. People sometimes have to dig down several feet to find artifacts that are 150 years old. Extrapolate that out to 500 years and these death traps could easily be covered by 10'-15' of soil and rocks, and have trees with 24" trunks growing over them. So where in the United States is it stable enough for a death trap to stay intact for this long?

In Arizona

 

[MiddenMonster]

In Arizona

I would certainly agree that Arizona is both geologically and climatologically stable enough. But not in the biological sense. Anything made 500 years ago from wood or other plants would be out of commission by now. Even metal death traps wouldn't last that long in Arizona because metal fatigues, and also reacts with oxygen over time. I suppose you could build a sand trap using stone blocks that would last 500+ years. But you still have to have a trip mechanism that would last that long for it to work. It's the trip mechanism that is the weak link in the chain.

 

[Crow]

While by enlarge death traps mythology is subject of more in the movies. Like Indiana Jones.

I cannot stress enough how dangerous old mine shafts are.

However from as a ex miner that worked for a time in The Mt Isa copper mine in Australia has approximately 950 kilometers (590 miles) of mining tunnels, The Enterprise mine, a major copper ore source at Mt Isa, is Australia's deepest, reaching a depth of 1,900 meters (6,234 feet ) In the lower levels air had to be pumped in from the surface. 28 levels and under ground workshops with over head cranes repaired dump trucks. I can tell you about dangers. Coal mines are even worse. I got buried in a front end loader in rock falls behind me. After that I went to exploration drilling on surface.

Old mine shafts are dangerous places decaying structural timber supports and erosion's from flooding of material into the mine create all sort of hazards. Such as loose rock in ceiling collapse capable of crushing of burying people alive. Old gold mine shafts in Arizona can contain high levels of carbon dioxide, primarily due to the decomposition of organic material like mine timbers and, in some cases, the oxidation of exposed sulfide ore. Poor ventilation in these abandoned mines allows dangerous gases to accumulate in low-lying areas. I have seen so many you tubers exploring old mine shafts and not one wearing a carbon dioxide monitor. Mines are designed to have cross flow ventilation but over time one end is sealed then there is no draft to expel dangerous levers of CO2.

Carbon dioxide does not only cause asphyxiation by hypoxia but also acts as a toxicant. At high concentrations, it has been showed to cause unconsciousness almost instantaneously and respiratory arrest within 1 min. Carbon dioxide you cannot see and by the time you realize there is carbon dioxide present your already dead. So in essence in any confined space is C02 potential hazard.So in essence any place can be a death tap for the unwary.

One of my uncles in 60s worked Six Bells Colliery was a colliery located in Six Bells, Abertillery, Gwent, Wales. On 28 June 1960 it was the site of an underground explosion which killed 45 of the 48 miners working in that part of the mine. On 28 June 1960, at approximately 10:45, an explosion took place in the West District of the Old Coal Seam, caused by an ignition of firedamp. Coal-dust in the air ignited and the explosion spread almost throughout the district. Killing 45 out of the 48 men who worked in that district of the mine, the tragedy would have been even worse had it not been for maintenance work taking place on the O.10 face where otherwise 125 men would have been working.

Lethal concentrations of carbon monoxide gas were found to be present. This suggested that the men lost consciousness rapidly and that death occurred within minutes. My late uncle told me as they escaped men behind was dropping like flies. You cannot stop to help them as you would die yourself. He was only one of three who escaped the co2 .

So I cannot stress enough be safe many old mine shafts have been abandoned because they are not economic. Some are safe to explore. But please be safe. Nothing is worth dying for.

Crow

 

[MiddenMonster]

I cannot stress enough how dangerous old mine shafts are.

I agree. And that doesn't even include the hazards from heavy metals dust and whatever else is in there. But old/abandoned mines should also be a good indicator of how long the proverbial Spanish death traps could realistically remain viable. Most old/abandoned mines are what, 100-200 years old? Spanish death traps are more than twice that old. Old mines were built to not cave in, yet many/most have degraded to the point where they are either already caved in or too dangerous to enter. I'd worry more about finding an old Soviet era suitcase nuke in an abandoned farm house in flyover country than getting snagged by a Spanish death trap.

 

[Crow]

I suspect Charles Kenworthy retired ex real estate salesman had tendency to exaggerate things that evolved many myths in itself. I suspect the Spanish had more important things to worry about than actually leaving death traps. However that said even if a mistaken belief in them make people at least to be careful around old mine workings.

Crow

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Death traps are like mouse traps. The second mouse gets the cheese (or peanut butter, if you know mice). Unless you have a Hollywood variety that resets itself.

 

[MiddenMonster]

I suspect the Spanish had more important things to worry about than actually leaving death traps. However that said even if a mistaken belief in them make people at least to be careful around old mine workings.

Maybe. To me it's not a stretch that the Spanish, or anyone else would have booby trapped their hidden goodies. Heck, I could see doing the same thing in certain circumstances. I just wouldn't expect them to remain viable centuries after my death. It would be interesting to see some modern incarnations of a death trap so we can see if it is even possible to create a 500 year death trap today.

Death traps are like mouse traps. The second mouse gets the cheese (or peanut butter, if you know mice). Unless you have a Hollywood variety that resets itself.

I remember reading something similar about nitroglycerin. We'll never know the name of the first guy who discovered it. As for peanut butter, I agree that it is better than cheese for mice. For rats, the best bait I've found is that candy called Rolo ("There are lots of chewy Rolos in a roll for you..."). Cut a Rolo in half, stick the cut end on the trip plate, kick back and listen for the screams.